skepticism in the church

I didn't turn my back on God I turned my back on human creations they call god.

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What is human creation?

Aesjn, what is it you actually want?

An Orthodox Priest once said that we try to create God in our own image, but God has created us in His own image.

So when we try to preach religion, we distort God. And when we sin, we deface the image of God within us.

So, please, think again about this.

Aesjn, Your OP was most upset and defensive (I am not criticising that just stating fact) and you seemed to assume that much invective would be aroused against you but that has not been the case. It is worthy that you would like to see a more flourishing church that claims the succession to the apostles of Christ and so would I and I have become informed of much corruption in the Antiochian archdiocese of North America since my conversion and have weathered it (and have observed equal corruption in other communions I may have considered). I have seen old pictures in our parish archives of my dad playing on our Orthodox parish softball team in the 1950s but where was the church in trying to get our family to rejoin it after they left in the 1940s ? (the parish was becoming an ethnic club during the salad days of the USA; softball? great. theology? um, oh yeah..well...). Right now I am leaving my day job to go do janitorial work at the church; aother long day then go home and read some Scripture, a little Philokalia, pray & pass out & get up at 4:30 am tomorrow. I realize that I can still share good will with other Christians like the Methodist/Presbyterian (combined) of my childhood by giving to their food bank (& they are not most evangelizing either but perhaps doing what God wants of them). I am not criticising your dilemma just trying to give a personal testimony of what might seem mediocre can be vital (although even here I assume nothing because Christ tells us we are unworthy servants per Luke 17:10). Just a ramble, God bless.

Mikeb85 said:

The problem is, when a convert is too passionate off the start, they eventually get burnt out, deluded, and discouraged. Many have started out being 'on fire' for Christ and the Church, but then when an obstacle gets in the way they get disillusioned and quit. The Christian faith is a constant struggle (especially in our society), and we struggle our whole lives. It's not a 100m sprint.

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Ah, the post conversion burn-out... happened to me a year or two ago. Than I accepted the fact that most of the world shall only become Orthodox when the individual human being is no longer closed off to the idea of becoming Orthodox.

Aesjn, if I'm one of those; forgive me. It sounds like you may have run into a bad priest or just one that does not understand some things.

Visit a monastery. Fr. Tryphon of the All-Merciful Saviour Monastery once said, "...Since the Church is the hospital for the soul, the monastery is the Intensive Care Unit."

Aesjn said:

I didn't turn my back on God I turned my back on human creations they call god.

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And what have you turned to? Don't you realize that you changed 180 degrees because of what a man said? I don't think you're crazy, but it's clear that the devil isn't resting and he leads you where he wants.
A good runner keeps his strength for the finish. He doesn't give all his strength at start because he will be too tired.
I'm not wise, so I'll tell you a story.

A young man who was struggling with a sin, came to avva Iraclie. Avva Iraclie told him:
- There once was an old man who had an apprentice. And he had had this apprentice for many years and the apprentice was very obeying. But one day the apprentice came to the old man and told him he wanted to live by hmself in the desert. And the old man told him to search for a place in order to build a hut. And they found a place and built a hut. And the old man said to the apprentice: "Whatever you do, you must obey these: eat when you get hungry (don't overfast), drink when you get thirsty, sleep when you get sleepy (don't overtire)! But only don't leave your hut until Saturday. And come to my place on Saturday." And the old man returned to his place. The apprentice obeyed the old man for two days, but on the third day thought to himself: "Why did the old man asked me not to pray?" And he started reading psalms and praying a lot and ate only after sunset. And when he went to bed, he saw a fearsome man sitting on his bedsheet. (It was the devil) The apprentice came running to the old man being very afraid and asked him to let him in. But the old man realised the apprentice had not listened to him and didn't open the door until morning. In the morning he felt pity for the poor apprentice and let him in. The apprentice told him what had happened and the old man said: "This happened to you because you didn't listen". The old man then gave his apprentice a rule of prayer according to his strength and in time, the apprentice became a skilled monk.

I told you this because one should take things according to his strength. One should not exagerate in any way.
Here is a video that might help:
YouTube - Elder Arsenie - The Kinds of Temptations

Aesjn, may Lord Jesus Christ have mercy on us, the sinners.

Aesjn, I'm not sure about the soullessness that you speak of. I find it hard reading your posts and I cannot believe that you were called crazy by a priest for being aflame for Christ. I'm not sure of you entire meaning but I've read of many monks who were aflame for Christ. Look at the lives of Saints who were very zealous. Some of them couldn't stand being in the world and others thought they were crazy, but they left all to serve Christ and became holy and such ones have so much love for God. I read of a priestmonk on Mt. Athos who served Liturgy every week and it would take hours because of his tears of love and awe he had during the whole service. The monk chanting with him (I believe it was Elder Paisios) was amazed at the end of Liturgy since the whole ground around the priest was mud (since the chapel had a dirt floor) that were caused by his tears. Read about other monks like Elder Paisios, Elder Joseph the Hesychast, St. Nicholas Planas, and the Optina Elders and you see such burning love and zeal for Christ which not everyone will understand. Read their lives and you will see what Orthodoxy should be like but you see we are all human and their are people who don't understand all that well.

I didn't care much about the Church when I was younger but when I read the lives of the great monastic Saints of our Church like St. Seraphim of Sarov and St. John of San Francisco for instance; I saw what Orthodoxy and being Christian was all about; I am still learning however but reading such lives I was inflamed for Christ and all I want is to serve him. Such Saints are the example of true Orthodoxy that is needed all the more these days.

I do find it terrible when people have real problems and are just put down and it seems that this has happened to you. Lord have mercy.

I hope that all goes well for you.

Other seed fell on the rocky ground where it did not have much soil;
and immediately it sprang up because it had no depth of soil.
And after the sun had risen, it was scorched; and because
it had no root, it withered away.
Mark 4:5-6

May the Lord Jesus Christ give you insight Aesjn.
I pray that this Scripture will never leave you, but that you will continually be reminded of it.
And then, when your soul can find no true rest, that you will know the mercy of the Lord and not despair of it.

Aesjn said:

I think you misunderstand, I'm not on my way back to Christianity I'm on my way back to paganism.

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Well either way I am here to talk. I have tons of pagan and Western Ceremonial friends still.

Aesjn, I'm not Orthodox so I hope I'm not barging into this thread when I shouldn't..

I read your post and it made me very sad. I'm sorry. Do you think that maybe this was a test for you. Sometimes God just wants us to trust Him even when things are not making sense. And when we do this, we grow in our faith even more than when we feel close to Him.

It must have been very painful for you, I understand. I'm sure it would have been very painful for me too. My relationship with Christ is the most important thing in my life, and if someone told me I'm crazy because of it, that's heartbreaking. Actually I have been told this in the past, only not by a priest.

Can I ask you to just consider one thing brother... and that is, don't leave Christ over this. Remember how much He loves you. If what the priest said had such an effect on you, perhaps he made a mistake. Try to forgive him.. priests are human, and he was acting based on what he knows. Maybe he just misjudged the situation, that's all. He didn't mean harm. But Our Lord still loves you, that hasn't changed I hope you would not leave Him over this, and that you wouldn't look into paganism. I've been there and it's empty. Only Jesus can satisfy our hearts, that I know for sure. Even if you're not sure about which church to attend, don't let this experience destroy your faith in Christ. Turn to Him and try to pray.

God bless

God bless you and grant you peace, joy, and hope in His Kingdom.

Where there is life, there is hope.

For those who have posted here and losing their faith, I ask you to reconsider and read the Mark 12 (focus on our Saviour's dialog re the resurrection and following the 2 great commands), Romans 10 (to re-establish faith), and 1 Corinthians 15 on the preaching and urgency of the resurrection. The resurrection is a serious matter and if you had once believed it, strongly reconsider it since it is our destinations. While many of us as Orthodox believe that God will show mercy to many in ways we cannot fully understand now, it is a fearful thing to neglect a salvation one should have received. The human elements we encounter that disillusion us can be a major problem but must be surmounted.

Aesjn said:

Don't be sorry, I don't want anyone to be sorry and as for the forgiveness thing other people post about, no one here has anything I need to forgive them of. As for my priest, it's 'too late', I'm not really angry at him or anything, that is not what made me not Christian, it was realizing it was untenable for me.



It's already gone, I've already left. I've been pagan most of my life, and it's probably not the same thing you experienced, it's not empty anyway: For most people "pagan" means something that is popularly believed to be ancient, has no theology or concrete ethics or history, but is not (which is what Wicca, "witchcraft" and all that gunk are), which has nothing to do with what I talk of. I've tried praying and the only thing that happens is god tells me to pray to him and reminds me that he's already made things quite clear, in ways Jesus never has, and I know to go back is basically suicide.

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the reason I said it's "empty" is because there is no Christ there

but I wish you all the best. God bless.