Health Care is a right.

DoubtingThomas29 · Aug 24, 2009

I believe Health Care is a right, because if you get sick and people can fix you doctors shouldn't have to ration care based on ability to pay. It is important for people to get the health care that they need to stay alive and free of pain especially when western medicine can do this for people.

I have heard that there are other less expensive ways to treat people's illnesses too that doesn't always involve surgery. However it is hard to learn about these methods and to perfect them when there is no incentive for doctors or the health careindustry to find a cheaper way to do something. Hospitals just get carried away and recommend the hundred thousand dollar surgery without looking at therapy close enough in too many cases, I believe anyways.

I do hope that Congress and the President can come up with a public option to health care and make it possible for everyone to receive health care in America. At some point I hope we switch to a single payer option, that probably would be the most fair.

Gobama!

Grizzly · Aug 24, 2009

The rights I believe in are listed in the constitution, and access to health care is not among those. Don't get me wrong, I think its the right thing to do, but its not a right delineated in our laws. I think it would be great if we could reduce our military spending and use the surplus to fund healthcare. But that's just my opinion.

sinner/SAVED · Aug 24, 2009

Maybe instead of a health care bill/law we should push for a constitutional ammendment....

Conservativation · Aug 24, 2009

Healthcare is no more a right than having AC in summer.

Guess what then, EVERYTHING is a right!

If you want, you can sacrifice and go to med school and be a dr. Then you can treat yourself. NOTHING, not one thing holds anyone back from that. unless we also have the RIGHT to peoples skills.
Plumbing public option
Cable TV public opetion

FOOD public option (already have that...hows that one workin out?)

How about a RIGHT to a 10% return on your investments? Retirement is a right. Obama needs to simply speak it into existence.

Conservativation · Aug 24, 2009

sinner/SAVED said:
Maybe instead of a health care bill/law we should push for a constitutional ammendment....

The amendment needs to read "the right to anything and everything you need" that way it doesnt come up again later.

Oh, I know, some may say we need a right to anything we WANT, but the Supremes will read that into NEED....no worries, literally.

kermit · Aug 24, 2009

Conservativation said:
The amendment needs to read "the right to anything and everything you need" that way it doesnt come up again later.

Oh, I know, some may say we need a right to anything we WANT, but the Supremes will read that into NEED....no worries, literally.

The constitution supports the idea of non-enumerated rights. The constitution is not the source of our rights, but rather their protector. Also, having an honest discussion about what is and what is not a right is noble pursuit and your dismissive attitude detracts from that.

To answer the OP, I don't believe healthcare to be a right; food and shelter are not rights. But offering it to all is the right thing to do.

rambot · Aug 24, 2009

Having the opportunity to kill someone with a gun is a right.
Having the guarantee of your health being looked after is not.

ziggy29 · Aug 24, 2009

Health care is something that I think an affluent and compassionate society should strive to provide available, affordable access to, much in the same way as education for all.

But it is not a right. A true right can be exercised without requiring the taking of life, liberty or property of another person against their will.

Am I opposed to health care reform, then? No, not necessarily; it depends on the details. But I immediately tune out discussions in favor of reform or "universal" health care as soon as someone claims it's a "right."

Veritas · Aug 24, 2009

DoubtingThomas29 said:
I believe Health Care is a right, because if you get sick and people can fix you doctors shouldn't have to ration care based on ability to pay. It is important for people to get the health care that they need to stay alive and free of pain especially when western medicine can do this for people.

I have heard that there are other less expensive ways to treat people's illnesses too that doesn't always involve surgery. However it is hard to learn about these methods and to perfect them when there is no incentive for doctors or the health careindustry to find a cheaper way to do something. Hospitals just get carried away and recommend the hundred thousand dollar surgery without looking at therapy close enough in too many cases, I believe anyways.

I do hope that Congress and the President can come up with a public option to health care and make it possible for everyone to receive health care in America. At some point I hope we switch to a single payer option, that probably would be the most fair.

Gobama!

Considering that food and shelter are even more basic than healthcare, maybe we should have a public option for those, too. Heck, I'd throw in clothing also...wouldn't want a bunch of folks running around naked now, would we?

DoubtingThomas29 · Aug 24, 2009

I was reading a book recently titled Anthropology for Dummies he presented several good ideas about problems humanity faces. You might find this interesting he didn't think society could fix the health care problem in america or throughout the world, because the world is really overpopulated the Earth cannot provide for about seven billion humans. Our Earth could never create an economy or system of governments where all the people of the Earth would have access to health care or easy access to employment for everybody. The problem of global warming probably will get so bad that within fifty to one hundred years people will die by the billions not millions. No joke he was totally alluding to that. One anthropologist figured the Earth can only sustain 2 billion people, and we are approaching seven, I think that is the crux of the problem, society just can't meet everybody's needs because of over population. I think there is some truth to the problem there.

I think there is something to that problem there.

lawtonfogle · Aug 25, 2009

Conservativation said:
Healthcare is no more a right than having AC in summer.

Healthcare is no more a right than having CPS which removes a child from sexually abusive parents who rape her.

Why should my money go to either? It is my money, I should not have to pay for other people to get protection from rapist. If you want to pay for it, go ahead, but don't force me, I'll give to charity if I feel like it.

lemmings · Aug 25, 2009

DoubtingThomas29 said:
I was reading a book recently titled Anthropology for Dummies he presented several good ideas about problems humanity faces. You might find this interesting he didn't think society could fix the health care problem in america or throughout the world, because the world is really overpopulated the Earth cannot provide for about seven billion humans. Our Earth could never create an economy or system of governments where all the people of the Earth would have access to health care or easy access to employment for everybody. The problem of global warming probably will get so bad that within fifty to one hundred years people will die by the billions not millions. No joke he was totally alluding to that. One anthropologist figured the Earth can only sustain 2 billion people, and we are approaching seven, I think that is the crux of the problem, society just can't meet everybody's needs because of over population. I think there is some truth to the problem there.

I think there is something to that problem there.

Raw resources are finite, as such, they provide a definite limit to our population on this planet. Healthcare is not a finite resource because while the number of sick people or elderly grow, so does the number of healthy people who have the ability to support them.

As for Global Warming, I highly doubt that it will ever get that bad for the developed nations.

Billnew · Aug 25, 2009

DoubtingThomas29 said:
I believe Health Care is a right, because if you get sick and people can fix you doctors shouldn't have to ration care based on ability to pay.
!

Health care is not a right.

Health care will be rationed by some means. Be it a insurance number cruncher, or a beuracratic number cruncher.
With out taking the majority of everyones money, there is not enough money to cover every persons treatment for cough, runny nose, and on the other side, the prolonged cancer treatment or prolonged recovery from massive injuries.

Healthcare reform needs to focus on:
1.getting more of the uninsured insurance.
2.controlling other costs that make medical care expensive,
malpractice and liability for mistakes.
3.restricting and controlling private insurances power to dictate medical care for those they insure.

Panzerkamfwagen · Aug 25, 2009

lemmings said:
Raw resources are finite, as such, they provide a definite limit to our population on this planet. Healthcare is not a finite resource because while the number of sick people or elderly grow, so does the number of healthy people who have the ability to support them.

As for Global Warming, I highly doubt that it will ever get that bad for the developed nations.

Actually, in the first world, that's not really the case. The population seems to have spiked, and now, is in relative decline. In Europe, the replacement rate in many countries is actually well below the replacement level, so the population is gradually going to start shifting toward the older level for a while, until it levels off. (Except that they're importing a lot of immigrants.)

Panzerkamfwagen · Aug 25, 2009

I believe Health Care is a right, because if you get sick and people can fix you doctors shouldn't have to ration care based on ability to pay.

Well, presumably, doctors need to pay the bills too. Do they have the right not to be forced to provide an involuntary service? If you break it down, health care is a service provided by someone else. If I have a right to a service provided by someone else, then that person does not have the right to refuse the service.

I'd recommend a little bit of light reading about involuntary servitude.

Glaz · Aug 25, 2009

DoubtingThomas29 said:
I believe Health Care is a right, because if you get sick and people can fix you doctors shouldn't have to ration care based on ability to pay. It is important for people to get the health care that they need to stay alive and free of pain especially when western medicine can do this for people.

So what happens if I get sick and doctors can't fix me, is healthcare still a right? What if I get sick, and it is up to me to take my medicine and control my diet, is healthcare still a right if I don't do those things?

allhart · Aug 25, 2009

DoubtingThomas29 said:
I believe Health Care is a right, because if you get sick and people can fix you doctors shouldn't have to ration care based on ability to pay. It is important for people to get the health care that they need to stay alive and free of pain especially when western medicine can do this for people.

I have heard that there are other less expensive ways to treat people's illnesses too that doesn't always involve surgery. However it is hard to learn about these methods and to perfect them when there is no incentive for doctors or the health careindustry to find a cheaper way to do something. Hospitals just get carried away and recommend the hundred thousand dollar surgery without looking at therapy close enough in too many cases, I believe anyways.

I do hope that Congress and the President can come up with a public option to health care and make it possible for everyone to receive health care in America. At some point I hope we switch to a single payer option, that probably would be the most fair.

Gobama!

GIVE ME A BREAK and I am entitled to millions (sounds good), but NOT! Just because it sounds right or good ,doesn't mean it is right. And some society's believed in sacrificing their kids, was that their entitlement to do soooo

Where are the independent thinkers these days? Kids go to school listen to some old hippy professor and think that whatever he said is the only truth out there? People need to look to both sides of the argument and most likely you will find independently your in the middle of the road :doh:

or if you disagree with the professor, you just might get a "F". Well is that the kinda education you want that's the kind ye'll get! Are any of Ya leaders out there that question things or just plainly sheep off to the slaughter house?

TheNewWorldMan · Aug 25, 2009

There are plenty of countries that offer national health care as well as civil rights. We have plenty of people who post on these very forums who come from such countries and have testified the secret Health Police don't come in the middle of the night to take you away for eating a cheeseburger.

So this notion that national health care is morally equivalent to stuff Josef Stalin did just doesn't wash. If you oppose Obama's policies, that's fine, but let's have arguments based on specifics of those proposals, not scare-mongering about how any kind of socialized medicine will automatically enslave us all.

allhart · Aug 25, 2009

TheNewWorldMan said:
There are plenty of countries that offer national health care as well as civil rights. We have plenty of people who post on these very forums who come from such countries and have testified the secret Health Police don't come in the middle of the night to take you away for eating a cheeseburger.

So this notion that national health care is morally equivalent to stuff Josef Stalin did just doesn't wash. If you oppose Obama's policies, that's fine, but let's have arguments based on specifics of those proposals, not scare-mongering about how any kind of socialized medicine will automatically enslave us all.

And there are people that play the stats on both sides of the issues. I have heard every other nation that has had been 10yrs in a national health care system. Are trying to privatize their health care and we are headed where they are pulling back or out? Also our country has been the beacon of freedom for all the world and what seperates us from them is the Constitution!. As I see it fix what is broke. Don't destroy what is good in our health care system. Reform, not deform! What interests me is: Tort reform,state competition, tax credit savings accounts, Computerized medical charts, medicare and medicaid reform(fraud). Look at what Hospitals that's are thriving as a business, Also I want to see these bills read one at a time (no pork) and implemented reform in increments. Not as to overwhelm the staff and the people with do process or bureaucracy . Lets get it right,not just jam it or ram it through and screw it all up, as the legislator normally do!

drod · Aug 25, 2009

allhart said:
And there are people that play the stats on both sides of the issues. I have heard every other nation that has had been 10yrs in a national health care system. Are trying to privatize their health care and we are headed where they are pulling back or out? Also our country has been the beacon of freedom for all the world and what seperates us from them is the Constitution!. As I see it fix what is broke. Don't destroy what is good in our health care system. Reform, not deform! What interests me is: Tort reform,state competition, tax credit savings accounts, Computerized medical charts, medicare and medicaid reform(fraud). Look at what Hospitals that's are thriving as a business, Also I want to see these bills read one at a time (no pork) and implemented reform in increments. Not as to overwhelm the staff and the people with do process or bureaucracy . Lets get it right,not just jam it or ram it through and screw it all up, as the legislator normally do!

Agreed. The ends do not justify the means.

Health Care is a right.

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