Question about the flood.

Hespera said:

Oh? 1.66 billion Moslems are all wrong?

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1.66 Muslims think the other 5.11 billion are all wrong. Why should they get to have all the fun? (as so does all religions )

Some "prophets" are dead, some are alive, all are fake.

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There are none that have claimed to reveal God to the world that are still alive, except one. Even Ron L Hubbard is long gone, off the top of my head he is the most recent one.

You think someone proved he was god. That is also common in religions.

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Mohammad, Buddha are just two examples who did not claim they are God.

They all think they have the good luck to be born into the one true religion.

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I feel very lucky myself that I do not belong to the religion I was born into. Like most people as an adult, I had a choice and I made it.

So where does that leave you?

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In the same place as I always have been, right here and I am happy with my lot. Will be interesting if someone can come up with something new though.

Gracchus said:

As you can see, many people didn’t keep up with the news, and whole civilizations refused to acknowledge that they had been wiped out by a global flood. The Egyptians, instance, refused to lay down and die, and continued using the same language and practicing the same religion. That’s how out of touch with reality they were.

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Cool!

This Wikipedia --- is it the same site that dates the Exodus with this much pinpoint accuracy:

Wikipedia said:

There is a large variety of estimates as to the supposed date of the Exodus, with suggestions ranging from the 17th to 13th centuries BCE.

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Looks to me like now Wikipedia is taking suggestions.

Oh, well --- Wikipedia can take a hike.

ETA: You may want to check this out: The Scrambled Earth History

Soul Searcher said:

Seems like there is a bit of disagreement here in the linage between Adam and Methusulah leading up to the flood

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Can you please explain why there is a disagreement? cos I aint seeing it

CoderHead said:

Why then would you blindly accept a claim of divinity from a nearly 2,000-year-old book just because the book itself says it's true? That's what I don't understand.

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Well there is the big problem with all your arguments. You have loaded your question with a faulty premise (three actually), therefore I cannot answer your question at all. That would be like me asking you "Do you still beat your wife?"

An intentional, premeditated act which brings about suffering or death for one or more others. Does that work for you?

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Thats a reasonable definition, now you just need to define death?

Gracchus said:

Just for reference, here are some of the events of the 24th century B.C.E.:

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What are the factors that cause you to accept that one or more of these archaeological finds (whether MSS or artefacts) are more reliable than the Torah? (therefore their truths override the Torah)

Soul Searcher said:

This could be interpreted to mean that he met his wife in Nod or that she traveled with him to Nod.

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Correct, when there is more than one possibility, one cannot claim any one possibility as absolute. Likewise, where any possibility is contradicted by the text elsewhere, then they are ruled out. This is normal grammatical interpretation of any text, not just a scripture.

Of course it is possible that a few more of his family went there with him but in any case it would have been only a very few people if you do a literal read, not nearly enough to build a city. A very small village perhaps.

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The Hebrew word can also mean fortified camp, so given the circumstances that is the more likely use of the word. In other words a bunch of tents with a fence around it

Who were these people who would have killed him anyway? His own brothers and sisters, his mother or father or were there actually other people in the land that are not mentioned.

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If there were other people around, they wouldn't have cared, obviously it would only be relatives that would have cared enough to seek vengeance.

marktheblake said:

Well there is the big problem with all your arguments. You have loaded your question with a faulty premise (three actually), therefore I cannot answer your question at all. That would be like me asking you "Do you still beat your wife?"

Thats a reasonable definition, now you just need to define death?

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If you tell me what those faulty premises are, I'll try to correct it.

Death - the end of a person's life. Is that a trick question?

marktheblake said:

If there were other people around, they wouldn't have cared, obviously it would only be relatives that would have cared enough to seek vengeance.

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I disagree, If there were other people around then some of them may have very well been friends of the family or Able himself. Others may have heard or saw what happened and were afraid or thought it fair to take an eye for an eye. There are other possibilties as well.

Soul Searcher said:

I disagree, If there were other people around then some of them may have very well been friends of the family or Able himself.

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It was Cain himself that said he feared someone would want to kill him, this comes from his own mind. It is not stated anywhere that there was actually anybody at all that wanted to take revenge on him. That he is thinking that this would primarily be other people makes very little sense at all. The primary suspects in any revenge would always be father, brother and sons of the victim.

This possibility of yours is ruled out because it contradicts elsewhere in the text. You are trying to impose a situation into the text that is not there, in order to prove something else. It does not work.

marktheblake said:

It was Cain himself that said he feared someone would want to kill him, this comes from his own mind. It is not stated anywhere that there was actually anybody at all that wanted to take revenge on him.

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So...Cain lived with his mom, dad, and brother - the only people on Earth. Prior to killing Abel, he never once spoke about other people. But when God cursed him, he just all of the sudden got the impression that there were tons of violent people that would want to kill him? That's weird. Really weird...

CoderHead said:

Cain lived with his mom, dad, and brother - the only people on Earth

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You cant be sure about that.

he just all of the sudden got the impression that there were tons of violent people that would want to kill him?

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Nor that.

You are making things up that are not there, in order to create a contradiction. That just doesn't work.

marktheblake said:

It was Cain himself that said he feared someone would want to kill him, this comes from his own mind. It is not stated anywhere that there was actually anybody at all that wanted to take revenge on him. That he is thinking that this would primarily be other people makes very little sense at all. The primary suspects in any revenge would always be father, brother and sons of the victim.

This possibility of yours is ruled out because it contradicts elsewhere in the text. You are trying to impose a situation into the text that is not there, in order to prove something else. It does not work.

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What does it contradict exactly?

btw it is rare that a persons mother or father or brother or sister would seek to take revenge on a family member but it does happen, friends and lovers of the victim are also likely to take revenege in a case like this more so than a family member as they may have no ties to Cain at all but may have loved Abel.

In any case it is just a possibility the text does not make it clear what it means and I personally do not think the book of Genesis should be taken as a literal history in any case so where does that leave us?

RND said:

What evidence is there that the flood didn't happen?

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insufficent water.
no evidence of a global flood.
no evidence of damage caused by one global flood.
uninterrupted civilizations that lived when it supposedly occured.

frankly the first one is good enough eveidecne against it.

I read somewhere that Noah lived in what is now New Jersey, and that the flood waters were transported by God to Neptune.

Hi, Kitty --- --- Nice to meet you and welcome to CF!

KittyPryde said:

I read somewhere that Noah lived in what is now New Jersey, and that the flood waters were transported by God to Neptune.

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You've either been reading the works of a top-notch apologist, or you've been reading one of my posts!

One or the other ---

AV1611VET said:

Hi, Kitty --- --- Nice to meet you and welcome to CF!You've either been reading the works of a top-notch apologist, or you've been reading one of my posts!

One or the other ---

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Well at least you say it's not both.

pgp_protector said:

Well at least you say it's not both.

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I hadda watch how I worded that.

Didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea ---

KittyPryde said:

I read somewhere that Noah lived in what is now New Jersey, and that the flood waters were transported by God to Neptune.

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AV1611VET said:

Hi, Kitty --- --- Nice to meet you and welcome to CF!You've either been reading the works of a top-notch apologist, or you've been reading one of my posts!

One or the other ---

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Which only goes to prove that ones religion is restricted only by ones imagination, a strong powerful religion is backed by a strong powerful imagination.
AV's religion as you can read is backed by an unlimited imagination, for AV all things are possible for his God and he would never even consider that his God is 'just in his imagination'.

godsmission said:

Which only goes to prove that ones religion is restricted only by ones imagination, a strong powerful religion is backed by a strong powerful imagination.

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Either that, or it's back in Writing.

Where the Flood water went is not covered by the Scriptures, so an educated guess would be a polite answer to a polite question.

What's the difference in me giving you four different locations as to where I think the Flood waters went, and you giving me four different paradigms as to where you think the moon came from?

Soul Searcher said:

What does it contradict exactly?

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I have forgotten where we are.. probably that the scripture tells us that all humanity is descended from Adam and Eve.

btw it is rare that a persons mother or father or brother or sister would seek to take revenge on a family member but it does happen

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You are mixing it up (again?) nowhere does it state that anyone wants to take revenge, it is only Cains fear that is mentioned.

Now you also have to consider on your point that Cain has had no prior experience with what people did when someone was murdered, so your rationale has no implication.

In any case it is just a possibility the text does not make it clear what it means

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The text does make it clear what it means, but it definitely does not tell us everything. Reading between the lines is allowed.

and I personally do not think the book of Genesis should be taken as a literal history in any case so where does that leave us?

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It makes no difference whether someone thinks Genesis is Fact, Fiction, Allegory, or whatever, we can still attempt to understand clearly what the author intended his audience to understand.

CoderHead said:

Death - the end of a person's life. Is that a trick question?

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Probably was a trick question. Death is not the end of a person's life according to God, there is a much better life to come afterwards.

marktheblake said:

You cant be sure about that.

Nor that.

You are making things up that are not there, in order to create a contradiction. That just doesn't work.

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Could you please post the scripture stating that there were other people alive on Earth when Cain killed Abel? I'd love to see that.

The statement, "you're making things up" actually gave me a good laugh. The fact that you rely on the Bible for your facts but then ignore or reinterpret it when a glaring contradiction is pointed out is humorous, but par for the course. A good laugh is a great way to start a Friday. Thanks.

marktheblake said:

I have forgotten where we are.. probably that the scripture tells us that all humanity is descended from Adam and Eve.

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There it is again. The scripture tells us all humanity descended from Adam and Eve. So when Cain killed Abel, there were only Adam, Eve, Cain, and (possibly) a few other siblings not mentioned for reasons unknown. So when Cain says he's afraid of the people who will kill him because of his curse, about whom would he be talking? This is my question to you.

marktheblake said:

You are mixing it up (again?) nowhere does it state that anyone wants to take revenge, it is only Cains fear that is mentioned.

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Fear of whom?

marktheblake said:

Probably was a trick question. Death is not the end of a person's life according to God, there is a much better life to come afterwards.

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...or a much, much worse life according to your doctrine.