Is anyone else tired of the conversations that go on about evolution or creation? Or is it just me? Neither side is going to budge because both require a certain amount of faith. You are all going to go around in circles till the end of time.
Creation or Evolution? BORING!!!
- Thread starter Andrew Sneddon
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I am sorry, but you are completely wrong here. Science does not require faith. If you think so, you need to educate yourself.
We're trying to stop the "end of time" from being a self-fullfilling prophecy. Some of these creationists are just dying to have the world end, and that makes them extremely dangerous.
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T
Tenka
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No it isn't just you, lots of creationists have a 'sour grapes' attitude towards discussions about the defense/critical examination of beliefs.
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Ok folks I'm not a creationist just to clarify, I think there are some very interesting theorys on how the world came to be and I don't have a problem with theories but I don't like people producing information on the evolution of anything because you are only making educated guesses from what humanity has learn't.
I guessing you all beleive that science is infallible? Yes?
I guessing you all beleive that science is infallible? Yes?
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No, we're not making educated guesses. An educated guess might be called a hypothesis. A theory is a collection of facts, and the highest possible form of truth in science.
We know evolution happens, and not in the dogmatic way of a Christian "knowing" god exists. We know it happens because we can see it happening. We know how it happens because the theory we work with has been able to predict things that the bible could only dream of predicting. In detail, too.
You may not be a creationist, but you certainly think like one.
No, I don't think anyone is infallible. However, science IS a self-correcting process. That means that if we have got something wrong, it WILL be revealed in the future for us to correct. This has happened time after time. In fact, it is a continuous process, as all scientific theories are revised all the time, including things you take for granted, such as the theory of gravity.
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Wow. just making "educated guesses"?
You guess people think science is infallible?
You dont like people producing information?
oh my....
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I just don't understand how you think there is no possibility that there is a God and that only science can be trusted if science sometimes gets it wrong.
Look all i'm saying is science is increadibly useful and has generated massive leaps in technology but just because there is evolution doesn't personally go against any of my beliefs so I don't know why there is so much arguing with people you have never met?
By the way Hespera just to clarify I don't like people presenting certain information/hypothesis/Theories as fact. Personally if someone tells me a whale used to walk on land and we can see this by the bones in the current generation of whales tails I'll tell them to get lost. I don't know what sort of imagination but it certainly requires faith. Evolution is a good idea as long as people aren't going to try and be that specific about where life originated because you can look a bones and see resemblences in structure but that's all you can do. You could say that there is a possibility that creature A and creature B were relatives but come on. Your saying that requires no faith what so ever.
I was wondering if you thought science was infalible because it would need to be if you are convinced beond any doubt there is no God. Did I insult you in any way Hespera? I appologise if I had insulted you but I don't think I've said anything out of order.
There is no correction process with the bible it doesn't get re evaluated over time to change what's in it.
Does anyone really think that there will ever be a "winner" in this conversation?
Look all i'm saying is science is increadibly useful and has generated massive leaps in technology but just because there is evolution doesn't personally go against any of my beliefs so I don't know why there is so much arguing with people you have never met?
By the way Hespera just to clarify I don't like people presenting certain information/hypothesis/Theories as fact. Personally if someone tells me a whale used to walk on land and we can see this by the bones in the current generation of whales tails I'll tell them to get lost. I don't know what sort of imagination but it certainly requires faith. Evolution is a good idea as long as people aren't going to try and be that specific about where life originated because you can look a bones and see resemblences in structure but that's all you can do. You could say that there is a possibility that creature A and creature B were relatives but come on. Your saying that requires no faith what so ever.
I was wondering if you thought science was infalible because it would need to be if you are convinced beond any doubt there is no God. Did I insult you in any way Hespera? I appologise if I had insulted you but I don't think I've said anything out of order.
There is no correction process with the bible it doesn't get re evaluated over time to change what's in it.
Does anyone really think that there will ever be a "winner" in this conversation?
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CoderHead
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Regardless of what you like and don't like, information will continue to come to light as our knowledge of the universe increases. Before we understood the Earth's electromagnetic properties, thunder and lightning was thought to be the product of a god's wrath. Now we know better. As we learn more about our world, we dismiss the childish notions of magic and miracles. Or, at least, most of us who have a propensity for rational thought do. Some just keep holding onto it no matter what.
No, science is not infallible. It's constantly changing and is built on a system of checks-and-balances. Scientific theories, including the ones that make it possible for you to read and reply to comments on this forum, are constantly undergoing evaluation when new information is obtained. Sadly, it's not so with religion. Religion claims indisputable fact from 2,000 years ago when we were all ignorant goat herders cowering in fear of God's wrath at every crack of thunder and every lightning strike. Is that really where we want to be?
Science is based on tangible, reproducible, testable evidence. It's based on observation and inspection. It's constantly questioned and revised to become more and more solid and consistent with the natural world.
God is based on emotion and fear of the unknown. It requires that there be no tangible evidence, otherwise it undermines faith. No, there will never be a clear "winner" to this debate.
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I have never said there is no possibility that there is a God. However, it's highly unlikely, and there's really no need for one, given that we can explain most things about nature through natural means already, and the rest we're making progress towards explaining as well.
I can't speak for anyone else, but I argue against creationists because I see them as dangerous. You might look at an islamic fundamentalist and see the danger there. All of us can. The news media has made sure of that. I see that same danger in Christian fundamentalists. Not only the very real danger of them trying to enact their own prophecy by going about ending the world, but also that they are trying to destroy all that humanity has achieved through science and rational thinking and replacing that with their own personal dogma.
I argue because I care about those who will inherit this earth.
Certain information is fact. Evolution is such information.
Why? Because you can't understand how it happened? If I showed you exactly how it happened, would you believe it then?
No. You just need evidence. We have said evidence.
With modern genetics we can do a whole lot more. We can map the genome of various spieces and compare them to each other. Do you know what we have found while doing so? Exactly what the theory of evolution predicted. We found the exact hierarchy of life we had already learned through other lines of research.
What you need to understand it this: Nobody wants whales to have descended from land-animals. No scientist ever jumped to that conclusion and then started looking for corroborating evidence. That's the creationist approach. Instead, we looked at the evidence and drew the logical conclusions. We then verified these conclusion with more evidence.
None what so ever.
I'm not. Convincing myself of that would require faith. I just find it extremely unlikely, and I have not seen any evidence for the exitence of a diety of any kind. Therefore, I will presume that there is none until said evidence manifests.
This is a major weakness.
As long as science doesn't "lose", I'm fine with there not being a "winner".
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I dont understand why you think you "know" that I or anyone else thinks there is no possibility of a god? I dont pretent to "know" and I doubt that any sensible person does.
Only science can be trusted? No no no no no! Where'd you get that?
Why argue? Some people like to argue. Like me.
I dont like presenting theory as fact either. So we agree on that. To the extent that it is done, its a failure of american public education, not of science.
Id not listen to someone who told that silly story about whales either. If you think thats how it goes, no wonder you dont believe it.
FAITH HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH SCIENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I understand that since you know nothing about anatomy / osteology the things that people can do looks like voodoo. No insult intended, just the way you speak makes it obviouis. Its not voodoo, its methodical and real.
Id like to e xplain more about how a paleontologist can know some of the things they do, and how identification can be done, but i wont try to squeeze it in here. Once you did, tho, you couldnt help but be convinced that they do know what they are doing. You could for example slip a camel ankle bone of just the right size into place on a deer deer skeleton but you wotn get it past the paleontologist. Any more than yoo could put a VW bumper on a 56 Ford and get that past a collector.
Does it take faith to know that aint the right bumper? Not on your life.
As for infallible, not i dont take that personally.
What is does do tho is reveal so much about your total lack of grasp of how a person thinks in science. My uncle says, you have to be a lawyer to know how to think like one. Same sort of thing i guess.
Absolute certainty about anything is for math, and religion.
Absolute certainty seems the province of religion.
Establilshing something beyond a REASONABLE doubt is for science and the courtroom.
I will consider it as close to winning as I'd ever think of being in this forum if i could show you that you are wrong about a couple of your ideas, you accepted it and incoporated it into your thinking.
Its too bad when people are battling the ghosts of their own imagination, which is to some extent what you are doing with the above.
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A
Alunyel
Guest
Pakicetus
Ambulocetus
Kutchicetus
Dorudon
YouTube - Whale evolution
If, after that, you don't accept it, then do your own independant and completely impartial research.
If you still don't accept it, then that only highlights your own willful ignorance.
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Meh, some people like things science, some people like video games and cartoons. Nothing wrong with that.
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Not a thing wrong with it. The videophiles and cartoonites can do the drudge work for the educated.
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Well I don't know where in the new testament it talks about God showing his "Wrath" by thunder and lightning. It could be a case of people not understanding or knowing what is in the bible and creating a "God of the gaps", as the gaps gets removed so does God. I would agree I wouldn't belieave in a "God of the gaps" either but that isn't the God in the bible anyway. Not from what I've read.
I don't really know what sort of image you have of God but it isn't right.
I don't really know what sort of image you have of God but it isn't right.
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JaredHughBohland
Jared Hugh Bohland
I personally find it amusing that the arguments have both been entirely exclusive. The whole big bang theory is that matter erupted into life. Creation is that God created it. The real kicker is who ever decided just how God created? Maybe God used a big bang to create the universe. I can only imagine that whatever God did to create the universe in a matter of days must have been pretty rapid, loud, and outrageous. I also believe that he instilled adaptive abilities into all his creation. I don't believe at all that man came from monkeys but I do believe that humans just like all animals have adapted to their environments and abilities for all of time. We as humans are certainly a long shot from our ancestors even mere centuries ago, not to mention thousands of years ago. The truth of the matter is, none of us will ever have the exact answer until God chooses to reveal it. Either way, elements of the evolutionary argument are quite congruent to the abilities of God.
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first my podar goes off whenever there is a new poster posting pratts.
if i call poe on a poe are the rules that they have to come clean?
and what are the rules if your wrong?
do we buy them a beer or in this case give em points?
if i call poe on a poe are the rules that they have to come clean?
and what are the rules if your wrong?
do we buy them a beer or in this case give em points?
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