Conservative Christians "Statement of Faith"

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BelindaP

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Since you picked on me, I'm going to answer this from my perspective. I think this is where the disconnect is happening, but the political conservatives in this forum don't seem to be capable of looking outside their little box to see that it IS possible to be theologically conservative and politically liberal. And, no that doesn't mean we are moderate. Moderate is when you have a mix of liberal and conservative theological views. I don't. I am a theological conservative through and through.

In my opinion the issue many people run into is one of priority, not politics.

Looking specifically at the political issue. There are some who come here because they believe they are theologically conservative because they believe in the authority and inerrancy of scripture or because their church is commonly viewed as a conservative church etc, but they voted democrat in the last election, maybe they vote democrat regularly.

As soon as they get into a political conversation they are accused of not being conservative because of the way they voted. Their assumption is that the forum then is really about politics and not theology or faith.
That is correct. And we resent people who don't walk in our shoes and try to tell us we aren't 'conservative enough'. You want a safe haven like that, then you should write politics into the SOF and move over to the Politics forum.

Thats understandable.
But really the issue isn't merely political. It certainly involves politics, but its really about moral and social values, and even more specifically its about the priority people assign to those values.

I will use a statement Belinda made, not to single her out but because I think it illustrates the point I'm getting at well.
Many pages back there was talk about socialism, and Belinda said something to the effect that the political conservatives have no problem forcing their religious view about abortion on people via government and law, so why should we have a problem forcing the christian view of charity and social justice on people via government and law.

I guarentee you that 90% or more of the conservatives I know would assume from that statement that she is a liberal. The reason for this is both the language used and priority of issues.
Why does the fact I consider social issues to be on a par with abortion make me a liberal. If I recall, Jesus didn't speak of abortion, but he did call the people who showed no charity towards the least of these goats. Seems to me he thought it rather important.

Now, Belinda is pro-life, she has said so and I think she said she agreed with the forum having a pro-life stance.
In her statement she used the phrase "your religious view about abortion" (paraphrased). This statement is guarenteed to set off the vast majority of conservatives because we do not believe that pro-life is a "mere religious view". To us this would be equivalent to calling murder a mere religious view and saying that laws prohibiting murder were people forcing their religious views on everyone else.
It is a religious issue. Muslims believe that life begins at 40 days gestation. Abortion before that is acceptable. So do many Jews. Then, you have pagans, who may or may not be pro-life. Most don't see a problem with early-term abortion. Getting to the liberal Christians--same thing. So, peoples' desire to outlaw abortion comes from their religious views.

Granted, my views about abortion are motivated by my religion, as are my views on murder. However, they are things that I believe every person in a decent society should agree with regardless of religion because life is such a basic human right.
In order for people not to believe in the right of life they have to be so far gone down the path of selfishness and destruction that I couldn't consider them a decent person, let alone a good Christian.
Right here you're calling the 50% of people in this country who aren't opposed to early term abortion indecent, or even Christian. Gotcha.

Further, I have yet to meet a conservative Christian who's number one top priority in terms of social issues was not abortion.
Yes you have, in this forum. But, they are usually run out of here on a rail.

For virtually every conservative Christian I know, the social issue of second importance is sexual morality and of course the issue of the day there is homosexuality. Though promescuity is also an ever increasing problem.
So, where are the street rallies to get adultery made illegal? After all, it's a much more common sin than homosexuality? Do conservative Christians really care about morality, or are they just going after the 'icky' sins.

When a person who claims to be pro-life votes democrat, it is usually based on the fact that they are anti-war (specifically in iraq) and because they believe social charity and helping the poor to be a Christian duty. Thus they are essentially puting those values at a higher priority than abortion and homosexuality.
1. What if we are? Does that make us less theologically conservative?
2. Maybe we're voting democrat because we really believe the party will do what it claims it will do wrt social justice. I'm a life-long Republican. But, I gave them up as liars during the last presidential term. Instead of doing something to stop abortion or improve morality, all they've done is get millions of people killed (higher death toll than abortion, btw).

Conservatives are not against helping the poor, but most of us see this as an duty of the Church at the local level, and of the individual.
Yeah. Except the churches aren't holding up their end of the bargain. We have children literally starving to death in America. I don't see any street protests about that either.
Further, it is literally incomprehensible to most conservatives to think that getting a government economic program passed would be more important than abortion, or trying to preserve our public values of sexual morality.
Incomprehensible or not, it is true. So, try breaking out of the little box that you've put God and have a look at the bigger picture. We will go to hell faster for not taking care of the 'least of these' than we will for any other sin.

What sets conservatives apart on that issue is not that we are against it.. most people are. It is the priority we place upon it. It is the fact that for most us we consider it to be the greatest evil in our society by far.
Funny you should say that. Most conservative churches didn't really care one way or the other about abortion until the mid-70s. They considered it to be a Catholic problem and didn't take stances one way or the other. It wasn't until Falwell started beating the drums that the evangelical churches took it up. 30 years isn't very long to set up a long-standing tradition imo.
 
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Nadiine

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I *am* ready to allow for it. Because I agree- being a conservative Christian is a way of life. What I'm asking and have been asking throughout this thread is if this forum is ready to accept that not everyone plays out their faith in the same way. That's it. That's been my question throughout the thread. Is this forum for all who agree with the statement of faith or isn't it? I'm getting mixed signals.
As to this, since it's not backtracking to point to blame,

I'll tell you my view on this here.
I am considered more 'liberal' in liberties in Christ, and 100%
conservative on what the Bible tells us is blatant sin.
So I mean the lists of "forbiddens" and obvious detailed sins.
(1 Cor 6:9-11, 1 Tim 1:8-11, Gal. 5:19-22 & several other areas)

IF people are less conservative in Liberties of Christ (ie. they socially drink, gamble, smoking cigs., secular music, Rated R movies, etc.) we have NO problem here with me becuz they are not called sins
overtly.

If we're going to be seeing how getting drunk, gay marriage,
taking drugs, and a host of that type of stuff not listed out in
the SOF are fine for believers, then no, I won't be ok with it at all.

And let me say one other thing as to not getting along,
the people who are more moderate have been just as
guilty of fighting and picking fights with more baseline
conservatives also - this has worked both ways here,
so I don't exactly appreciate just the more conservative
being taken to the carpet when others push and
antagonize just as much in their differences and dislikes.

There has been a wide open Moderate forum that nobody
utilized by choice that could have been if they hated
what went on here so much. (even after I mentioned it
several times).

So with all that said, if people can also respect Conservatives
that do not lean Moderate or liberal, then there shouldn't
much trouble in here.
At least from me (I should speak for myself I guess)
 
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PreachersWife2004

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Well, in all fairness, Jesus walked this earth for a mere 33 years and look what HE did.

But anyway, we're still drifting.

Please PLEASE, stop with the personal stuff here. Take it up in a PM or whatever, but let's just discuss the SoF.
 
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Tenebrae

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I think the SoF is great, you all have put in some wonderful work on it.


As someone who is theologically conservative, (yet not sure at all where she fits on the socio/political scale and not just going to put on a happy face for the sake of fitting in) I do worry about being made to feel like a leper because I'm not conservative enough
 
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Nadiine

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So, going back to the current SoF sticky, are there other things we want to add? Subtract?

I really think we're making this more difficult than we need to. Again, do we want the SoF to say what we believe and why, or do we want our SoF designed to keep people out of our forum? If it's the second option, then I truly don't believe we deserve a forum.

Yes, we want our safe haven. The advisors are trying to give us that, but they're asking for something in return. They're asking us to be the loving Christians that Christ commanded us to be. If we see someone posting against our SoF, gently remind them of the SoF. If they continue, don't engage them, report them.

I've seen it folks, I've seen what Meh is talking about. It's what made me leave towards the end of '07 and it's what gets my goat here still. It's fine to disagree with someone. But do it respectfully, something this forum seems to lack on occasion.

Our duty as Christians is to spread the gospel. Jesus did NOT tell us to go forth and find everyone who doesn't believe like we do and rip them apart.

All the advisors are asking of us is to be kind and not respond with some of the things we've been known for in the past (and in the present to some extent). Now, if we can't do that, if we can't give the advisors that much, then we don't deserve our own forum.

And yes, whether it's one or two posters or the whole lot of us posting in that fashion, the blame still falls squarely on ALL of our shoulders.
2 Things here PW -
yes, I agree, I don't know why the past blame stuff is going on at
this point, we have to turn this SOF in by later today or
tomorrow?
So lets finish it up & get done here. Some of this is constructive,
but it's turning direction again (too far imho) --

anyways, I'll say this again, there WILL be differences in here,
and there will be arguments eventually on some matters,
this happens all thru forum areas (some more than others for
various reasons) -
I do not like the perceptions that it's just intolerant CC
leppers type of stuff.
So if people expect perfection and everyone to be roasing
s'mores at the campfire, I think they're dreaming, but
it doesn't have to get bloody either.

I'll do my part to do what I can and take it from there -
I'm still pessimistic about what may happen in here,
but I'll have to wait to see.

:)
 
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JimfromOhio

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2 Things here PW -
yes, I agree, I don't know why the past blame stuff is going on at
this point, we have to turn this SOF in by later today or
tomorrow?
So lets finish it up & get done here. Some of this is constructive,
but it's turning direction again (too far imho) --

anyways, I'll say this again, there WILL be differences in here,
and there will be arguments eventually on some matters,
this happens all thru forum areas (some more than others for
various reasons) -
I do not like the perceptions that it's just intolerant CC
leppers type of stuff.
So if people expect perfection and everyone to be roasing
s'mores at the campfire, I think they're dreaming, but
it doesn't have to get bloody either.

I'll do my part to do what I can and take it from there -
I'm still pessimistic about what may happen in here,
but I'll have to wait to see.

:)

Many idealists find it difficult to fully accept anyone the way they really are and chronically attempt to control them so that they can become the way they "should ideally be" which often leads to become fatalistic, hostile, pessimistic, and negativistic attitudes. I truly believe that "over-idealism" is a control issue and that it is at the root of our need to over-control situations, people, places, or things in order to ensure that they come into compliance with our ideal image of the way reality is supposed to be.

I believe we should not be either pessimistic or optimistic from human point of view. As a human being, I am very optmistic person however, as a believer, I have strong faith in God. God have a spiritual goal which those of us are going through will have a positive result in the lives of others.
 
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MrJim

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Ditto. I like this forum. :)

4.gif
~guess we'll see if anything survives...
 
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zingvali

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This is just one more example of how this particular forum causes people to leave. This is sad and makes me think how can this forum be any good?
Well, after lurking for a long time, I've seen how other forums when they degenerate this badly on CF have been shut down. Why not shut down this one too? It only seems to generate division and strife. People arguing over who is more Christian than whom else. Ridiculous nonsense if you ask me.
 
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MrJim

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Well, after lurking for a long time, I've seen how other forums when they degenerate this badly on CF have been shut down. Why not shut down this one too? It only seems to generate division and strife. People arguing over who is more Christian than whom else. Ridiculous nonsense if you ask me.

No offense intended newbie, but this ain't your discussion...
 
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