Hovind's lies exposed.

AV1611VET

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Maybe some sort of very large bird did co-exist with humans for a time, maybe even one of the ones they mention, yet I find it quite likely that the reports are exagerated at best and people that want to believe try thier best to link them to a real creature even if no such creature exists.
Well, I'm not going to rule out what is called Retroactive Falsification, but every myth, as they say, has a grain of truth in it.

If they did indeed hunt a large flying avian back then, and hunted it to extinction, and over time this large flying avian became what is known today as the 'Thunderbird'; then indeed the 'Thunderbird' is a myth*, but the bird itself is not.

* Or, more appropriately, an exaggeration.
Do you also believe that Knights hunted fire breathing dragons?
Yes --- in my opinion.


 
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Alunyel

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AV1611VET said:
However, if Kent Hovind says they hunted them, I'll take his word on it --- for now.
So if you develop cancer, you're going to try and cure it through eating the seeds of peaches?

Just don't go crying to Hovind when you develop cyanide poisoning over your cancer, which the peach seeds had no effect on.

But it's OK, because you'll take his word for it, that peach seeds can cure cancer.
 
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AV1611VET

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So if you develop cancer, you're going to try and cure it through eating the seeds of peaches?

Just don't go crying to Hovind when you develop cyanide poisoning over your cancer, which the peach seeds had no effect on.

But it's OK, because you'll take his word for it, that peach seeds can cure cancer.
I thought I edited out the word "cure" in my post: 50.
 
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Bombila

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I believe it was the Lakota --- and that's a good point --- they may not have hunted them, per se.

However, if Kent Hovind says they hunted them, I'll take his word on it --- for now.
Here's an interesting article:

SOURCE

Should have read further in your source, AV:

Still, the other problem with his theory is that it ignores what Indians themselves have to say about the Thunderbird.
They describe the Thunderbird as a spiritual, not just physical, being. It is not seen as just a large, fearsome predatory bird that people tell stories about. Rather, it's an integral part of Plains Indians religion and ritual. Only by ignoring this fact could we put our Western ethnocentric biases into effect, and reduce it to a zoological curiosity. The Thunderbird is much more than that; the Indian attitude toward it comes from more than just the mere fact that it is supposed to be really big. To understand the origins of Thunderbird myths, it's necessary to see how they connect with other elements of Indian belief and ceremony - especially the Trickster complex - and see how they fit into the structure of Plains Indian myth as a whole.

As I thought. White cryptolozoologists layering their own excited notions atop the actuality of Aboriginal beliefs.

I am sorry you would take a convicted conman's word over that of entire indiginous peoples.
 
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Soul Searcher

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If they did indeed hunt a large flying avian back then, and hunted it to extinction, and over time this large flying avian became what is known today as the 'Thunderbird'; then indeed the 'Thunderbird' is a myth*, but the bird itself is not.

* Or, more appropriately, an exaggeration.Yes --- in my opinion.

Keep in mind however that in the same post where it was pointed out that he claimed they hunted dinos it is also pointed out that he says dinos are nothign more than overgrown lizards. It is crystal clear that he is not talking about a bird so even if they did hunt Thunderbirds he is still wrong.

My guess is that he does nto believe birds are dinos nor related though that is just a guess.
 
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AV1611VET

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Yes, like all creationists, they shoehorn what they want to make their outlandish claims as it suits them.
I personally believe Job hunted dinosaurs.

Notice this passage:
Job 41:1-10 said:
1 Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?
2 Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?
3 Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?
4 Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?
5 Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?
6 Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?
7 Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?
8 Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.
9 Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?
10 None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?
Attempts at hunting the Leviathan are futile; even when he is found, he cannot be captured by conventional means.
 
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Naraoia

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Do you know what a Thunderbird is --- (besides a Ford)?
An email client that I would love, if only it were compatible with my antivirus.

After all, grandpa looked for some evidence 200 years ago with state-of-the-art tools, and never found any.

(At least, that's usually the answer I get here.)
A misrepresentation worthy of a Hovind thread.

I think you've also been told that all the evidence found in the 200 years since grandpa supports grandpa's conclusion.

Especially since, you know, to buy into the view that birds evolved from dinosaurs rather does seem to require one to acknowledge macro evolution as a fact... or would you like to claim that all bird hipped dinosaurs and avians are in fact one "kind"?
Bird-hipped dinosaurs are about as far removed from birds as a dinosaur can be ;)

Just don't go crying to Hovind when you develop cyanide poisoning over your cancer, which the peach seeds had no effect on.
IMO, the peach myth is something that would even make sense if it were true. After all, cyanide interferes with the mitochondrial electron transport chain, and cancer cells are precisely the kind of cell that you'd expect to need a lot of energy.
 
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Bombila

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Bombila needs to read that --- slowly.

Specifically this part:It does not say: Again: if they hunted it to extinction, retroactive falsification could later reduce it to myth status.

Did you know that Shem was still alive when Isaac was born?

This insured retroactive falsification of Noah's Flood would not occur.

This speculation does not remove my point, or my objection. You and the cryptozoologists, knowing very little of First Nations beliefs, legends, oral traditions, grasp at a thread and weave a blanket of it, without ever going the route of asking the people whose culture you are stealing the thread from in the first place.
 
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Tenka

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  1. Native Americans used to hunt the Thunderbird.
  2. The Thunderbird is an avian dinosaur.
  3. Native Americans used to hunt dinosaurs.
This is rubbish.
For Hovind to make any point by claiming "Native Americans used to hunt dinosaurs" he would have to have been referring to species thought long extinct such as giant sauropods.
Hovind claiming humans hunted animals we know lived in the same time and place as humans gets him nowhere. Given that one of Hovind's central claims is that humans lived alongside giant sauropod dinosaurs it is certain he is referring to these and not a relatively recently extinct bird.
In addition, this page from Hovind's website indicates that he rejects that birds are dinosaurs.

If you want evidence that he is liar.
"
Hovind was found to have lied about his possessions and income."

 
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AV1611VET

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This is rubbish.
And I don't agree.
For Hovind to make any point by claiming "Native Americans used to hunt dinosaurs" he would have to have been referring to species thought long extinct such as giant sauropods.
I have no idea what he was referring to.

If he made the statement that Native Americans used to hunt dinosaurs, then he is correct --- at least on a technicality --- since birds are dinosaurs.
Hovind claiming humans hunted animals we know lived in the same time and place as humans gets him nowhere.
It gets him off the hook on a technicality.
Given that one of Hovind's central claims is that humans lived alongside giant sauropod dinosaurs it is certain he is referring to these and not a relatively recently extinct bird.
Again, I disagree.

I also believe man lived next to, and hunted giant dinosaurs, as I just showed from the book of Job.

HOWEVER, I also believe these 'giant sauropod dinosaurs' no longer exist - (unless Nessie is one).

If Kent Hovind was indeed talking about these guys, then I think he is in error --- but certainly not lying.

My take on this is that they hunted the Thunderbird to extinction (or near extinction), as well as possibly a dying species of something else.
 
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Washington

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It pains me to say it, but I'll have to side with AV1611VET on this one. Hovind isn't lying when he says that Native Americans hunted thunderbirds or dinosaurs. He's wrong, but I think he really believes these things.
I might agree with you if it was almost any other creationist. Trouble with Hovind is that he's shown himself to be a con-man who was only out for the buck, and would say anything to further that end. So while he might believe such a thing, I feel that it's more likely that he doesn't.
 
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Tenka

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Av said:
I have no idea what he was referring to.
From Kent's own site he writes: "Dinosaurs were created with man and were on the ark with Noah. After the flood they were hunted to the point of extinction in most parts of the world by man. A few dinosaurs are still alive in various parts of the world today!"

My take on this is that they hunted the Thunderbird to extinction (or near extinction), as well as possibly a dying species of something else.
If by "Thunderbird" you are talking about some species of recently extinct giant bird, then yes extinction from hunting is a possibility. Evidence pending.
It isn't clear to what degree the thunderbird myth is based on reality, the giant avain you produced earlier is vulture like, while thunderbird stories describe something closer to a bald eagle.
Frankly, when you have delicious deer and bison in abundance I can't see the attraction in going after a giant vulture.

Australian aboriginies most likely hunted megafauna, and likely contributed to their extinctions. They weren't really dinosaurs though.

MrGoodBytes said:
Hovind isn't lying when he says that Native Americans hunted thunderbirds or dinosaurs. He's wrong, but I think he really believes these things.
I don't know what I think. He has a history of extremely disingenuous behavior. His "$250000 challenge" for one example and his antics with the IRS as another.
He seems greatly interested in money and self promotion and, circumstances willing, could probably have been a cult leader.
 
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AV1611VET

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Trouble with Hovind is that he's shown himself to be a con-man who was only out for the buck, and would say anything to further that end.
Who was conned, Washington, and how?
 
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