Toward a Personal Theology

reAsonX · Dec 21, 2002

Developing a Personal Theology
(1.) I have been a believer for some time. I began as a Charismatic who held the Bible to be complete and exact word of God.
(2.) Down through the years I have changed. I still believe the Bible contains the revelation of God, but I also think it has been corrupted here and there so it does not always show God accurately or completely. I do not think that God intends for us to accept the Bible as a pure and complete revelation of Himself. I think if you were to go before The Throne and try to justify your beliefs/actions by quoting the Bible, then would be surprised hear Him say "Yes, but what did I say to you in your heart". In short, I think the word of God is ultimately that which is revealed into your heart, not what is written on a piece of parchment. We are going to be held to what is in our heart.

(3.) I don't want this to be a thread debating the infallibility of the Bible. There are plenty of those. I have also intentionally placed this in a believer only area so as to ward off any atheists and nonbelievers.

(4.) My request is this: What does your heart tell you about God? What is he saying to you? What has he revealed to you? What is alive and real about God in your innermost man? What is He like? What are His attributes? What is His nature? I do not care if you use Bible quotes, as long as they accurately reflect what He has told you in you heart. Prioritize your beliefs if you can.

Gabriel · Dec 21, 2002

My heart tells me that the bible is the word of God. I can't begin to answer this thread without stating that as a fact. God is all powerful, all knowing and in control of everything. The bible is the ONLY written document that has stood the test of time. Remaining unchanged and true to the originals through a couple thousand years of copy, passing on, etc. Compare your 9th grade history text book to a college edition or even to another 9th grade edition in the same school but 5 years later, you will find MANY differences.

Being that God is sovereign, He would not allow a book to state that it was His complete, God breathed guide for life unless it was.

2Timothy 3:16&17 " All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work."

That is what my heart tells me.

reAsonX · Dec 21, 2002

My heart tells me that the bible is the word of God. I can't begin to answer this thread without stating that as a fact.

Thanks Gab. Sorry that you cannot help me. But I appreciate your input!

RX

seebs · Dec 21, 2002

Hmm. I don't think it's so much whether or not the Bible is true, as how we decide what to emphasize, or how we cope with ambiguities and questions of interpretation.

God has always seemed a lot more merciful to me than He does to most people, I think. Also, the God I believe in has a sense of humor, and kids around.

reAsonX · Dec 21, 2002

Originally posted by seebs
Hmm. I don't think it's so much whether or not the Bible is true, as how we decide what to emphasize, or how we cope with ambiguities and questions of interpretation.

God has always seemed a lot more merciful to me than He does to most people, I think. Also, the God I believe in has a sense of humor, and kids around.

Excellent point Seebs!

I agree that God has a sense of humor also.  

Blackhawk · Dec 21, 2002

Originally posted by reAsonX
Developing a Personal Theology
(1.) I have been a believer for some time. I began as a Charismatic who held the Bible to be complete and exact word of God.
(2.) Down through the years I have changed. I still believe the Bible contains the revelation of God, but I also think it has been corrupted here and there so it does not always show God accurately or completely. I do not think that God intends for us to accept the Bible as a pure and complete revelation of Himself. I think if you were to go before The Throne and try to justify your beliefs/actions by quoting the Bible, then would be surprised hear Him say "Yes, but what did I say to you in your heart". In short, I think the word of God is ultimately that which is revealed into your heart, not what is written on a piece of parchment. We are going to be held to what is in our heart. 

I have a question for you after reading this.  What did Jesus do when the people questioned him while He was incarnate?  What did Jesus do when He was tempted by the devil?  What did he do when the pharisees said how can you do this or that? 

  (3.) I don't want this to be a thread debating the infallibility of the Bible. There are plenty of those. I have also intentionally placed this in a believer only area so as to ward off any atheists and nonbelievers. [/B]

I am curious about this so I will leave this although it is borderline for the Christian only section. 

(4.) My request is this: What does your heart tell you about God? What is he saying to you? What has he revealed to you? What is alive and real about God in your innermost man? What is He like? What are His attributes? What is His nature? I do not care if you use Bible quotes, as long as they accurately reflect what He has told you in you heart. Prioritize your beliefs if you can. [/B]

Click to expand...

To quote Rich Mullins' song "Maker of noses"

They said boy you just follow your heart
But my heart just led me into my chest
They said follow your nose
But the direction changed every time I went and turned my head
And they said boy you just follow your dreams
But my dreams were only misty notions
But the Father of hearts and the Maker of noses
And the Giver of dreams He's the one I have chosen
And I will follow Him

lyrics from

http://www.kidbrothers.net/printable.html

reAsonX · Dec 21, 2002

They said boy you just follow your heart
But my heart just led me into my chest
They said follow your nose
But the direction changed every time I went and turned my head
And they said boy you just follow your dreams
But my dreams were only misty notions
But the Father of hearts and the Maker of noses
And the Giver of dreams He's the one I have chosen
And I will follow Him

Thanks for the lyrics BH!

 

Blackhawk · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by reAsonX
Thanks for the lyrics BH!

 

Are you going to answer my questions and concerns?

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by reAsonX

(4.) My request is this: What does your heart tell you about God? What is he saying to you? What has he revealed to you? What is alive and real about God in your innermost man? What is He like? What are His attributes? What is His nature? I do not care if you use Bible quotes, as long as they accurately reflect what He has told you in you heart. Prioritize your beliefs if you can.

Well, first I do believe the Bible to be the Word of God. I believe He reveales Himself through it but I also believe there is more to God than what is revealed in the written words alone.

Most of what I have learned about God started by reading and dwelling on His Word but has become part of my very being through my personal time with Him.

The Bible along with my heart tells me that God is personal. He's gracious, merciful, loving, forgiving, and all good things come from him.

He's asking me to trust Him completely. There's nothing I could possibly do to cause Him to stop loving me. He's telling me to walk in holiness. He's telling me to walk in obedience to Him.

My innermost man is pricked to the core everytime I do not obey. Every time I do something that does not bring Him glory. It's not a hounding, like someone standing over me with a big stick but a soft voice letting me know that I need to do it differently the next time.

Most of the time God is gentle but I have had Him be pretty stern with me too. Mostly when it was something that I knew better but did it anyway.

Through His correction He shows me my heart. When I say, well God understands. His response is, what about their childs disobedience does a parent understand? My response, that they know more than the parent. Then I see my heart for what it is.

I know God as merciful and full of compassion. He's ever ready to forgive and lift us up out of the messes we get ourselves in. He gives us the strength that we need to overcome our adversary. He changes our hearts as we allow Him to.

He has a great sense of humor. He even told me a joke once.

God is my Savior, my Lord, my friend. He's my Father, my Husband, my Shield. He's my Peace, my Comforter, my Protector. He's my being, and my all. I am nothing without Him.

Thanks reAsonx for asking questions that caused me to reflect on Him.

God bless, :angel:

Quaffer

sola fide · Dec 22, 2002

To me it makes no difference what my heart "says". My heart is "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" (Jer. 17:9). Hearts are corrupted by sin, and inclined towards untruth. I trust in the Word of God alone, for "[God's] word is truth." (John 17:7, Psalm 119:142)

Grace to you.

SUNSTONE · Dec 22, 2002

God and my heart tell me that the bible is the true word of God.

The greatest way to hear from God is through the bible, and when I am lieing in my bed or working God talks to my heart and uses scripture after scripture to mold and to conform my mind.

Without the foundation of the word, you will get lost, like a ship at sea with no compase or map. If you pick and choose your verses, you will have two masters, one you love and one you hate, you can not serve two masters Jesus said.

seebs · Dec 22, 2002

I thought God's Word was written upon our hearts.

The problem is, as soon as you find two apparently-contradictory verses, you *must* either pick and choose, or emphasize, and you must do so based on something else - perhaps just the rest of the Bible, perhaps guidance from teachers, perhaps the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

How many people here believe that slaves should obey their masters, and that we should take slaves from neighboring kingdoms? If you believe that, I can't help you... If you *don't*, then how is that not "picking and choosing"?

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by sola fide
To me it makes no difference what my heart "says". My heart is "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" (Jer. 17:9). Hearts are corrupted by sin, and inclined towards untruth. I trust in the Word of God alone, for "[God's] word is truth." (John 17:7, Psalm 119:142)

Grace to you.

My heart was deceitful and desperately wicked.  But according to 2 Cor 5:17 "if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new".

I trust soley in the Word of God and when my heart tells me differently I repent.

Quaffer

SpiritPsalmist · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by seebs
I thought God's Word was written upon our hearts.

The problem is, as soon as you find two apparently-contradictory verses, you *must* either pick and choose, or emphasize, and you must do so based on something else - perhaps just the rest of the Bible, perhaps guidance from teachers, perhaps the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

How many people here believe that slaves should obey their masters, and that we should take slaves from neighboring kingdoms? If you believe that, I can't help you... If you *don't*, then how is that not "picking and choosing"?

I don't know what scripture you're referring to.  When the scriptures were written they written to people from all walks of life.  And that included slavery.

In this country there is no legal slavery. I think the closest thing we have in America to master/slave position would be the workplace.  I work for a company that hires me to do a particular job for them and it is expected that I will do that.  Otherwise, I lose the job. 

In a sense my boss might be considered a master.  Not in the same sense as what we think in terms of master/slave but still a master.  I don't see that as picking and choosing.  I see it as adapting yesterdays termonology to today.

Quaffer

reAsonX · Dec 22, 2002

When I went to bed last night I had just about given up on this thread because I thought I had not stated clearly enough what it was I wanted and I was not really getting what I was looking for. Happily, tonight when I check in, I find numerous posts that are feeding me!

Through His correction He shows me my heart. When I say, well God understands. His response is, what about their childs disobedience does a parent understand? My response, that they know more than the parent. Then I see my heart for what it is.

I know God as merciful and full of compassion. He's ever ready to forgive and lift us up out of the messes we get ourselves in. He gives us the strength that we need to overcome our adversary. He changes our hearts as we allow Him to.

He has a great sense of humor. He even told me a joke once.

God is my Savior, my Lord, my friend. He's my Father, my Husband, my Shield. He's my Peace, my Comforter, my Protector. He's my being, and my all. I am nothing without Him.

Thanks reAsonx for asking questions that caused me to reflect on Him.

This is really more of what I was looking for. When I read this, I can tell it is not just something quaffer memorized and is simply parroting back. These are things God spoke to his heart and has made real to him. These are things that reside in the spirit and flow forth in a living testimony of Him. No words like "omnipotent" or "sovereign"... which are ligitimate terms for a theologian or a textbook... but they are not the living words of the spirit.  

reAsonX · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by sola fide
To me it makes no difference what my heart "says". My heart is "deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked" (Jer. 17:9). Hearts are corrupted by sin, and inclined towards untruth. I trust in the Word of God alone, for "[God's] word is truth." (John 17:7, Psalm 119:142)

Grace to you.

I tend to agree with quafer on the subject.  I think in the OT, the heart was decietful and untrustworthy. The NT has some things to say on this, most noteworthy:

1 John 2:20-23 LITV
(20) And you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things.
(21) I did not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because every lie is not of the truth.

1 John 2:27 LITV
(27) And the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone teach you. But as His anointing teaches you concerning all things, and is true, and is not a lie, and as He taught you, abide in Him.

This is what I am talking about. It is the living truth that is revealed into our hearts by the Spirit of God.

reAsonX · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
God and my heart tell me that the bible is the true word of God.

The greatest way to hear from God is through the bible, and when I am lieing in my bed or working God talks to my heart and uses scripture after scripture to mold and to conform my mind.

Without the foundation of the word, you will get lost, like a ship at sea with no compase or map. If you pick and choose your verses, you will have two masters, one you love and one you hate, you can not serve two masters Jesus said.

Thanks SS, I will think about what you have said here.

seebs · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by Quaffer
I don't know what scripture you're referring to.  When the scriptures were written they written to people from all walks of life.  And that included slavery.

And didn't, for reasons I cannot comprehend, say "by the way, this is a *really bad idea*". So, for hundreds of years, people simply took the Bible at face value, and kept slaves.

When something spoke to them, and said "the slavery thing is a bad idea", it contradicted the plain sense of the Old Testament, was totally unsupported by the New Testament... and was, nonetheless, the will of God.

Why? I dunno. But you won't convince me that slavery, as it was practiced by many people from the days of Israel to modern times, is morally acceptable... and I don't think you'll find anything in the Bible which condemns it.

reAsonX · Dec 22, 2002

Originally posted by seebs
I thought God's Word was written upon our hearts.

The problem is, as soon as you find two apparently-contradictory verses, you *must* either pick and choose, or emphasize, and you must do so based on something else - perhaps just the rest of the Bible, perhaps guidance from teachers, perhaps the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

How many people here believe that slaves should obey their masters, and that we should take slaves from neighboring kingdoms? If you believe that, I can't help you... If you *don't*, then how is that not "picking and choosing"?

 

I think you hit the nail on the head Seebs. It can only be the Spirit that aids you in correctly discerning the truth in this situation. And I agree that the Holy Spirit can and does use annointed teachers to show us the correct ways.

sola fide · Dec 22, 2002

Our hearts are still deceitful. We are a new creature when we are regenerated, God takes out our heart of stone and puts in a heart of flesh, but that new heart still has to battle with sin and our old nature. The only difference is that God's wrath is turned away from us, and we are now inclined towards God.
Our heart is still sinful, yet we are justified at the same time. Our flesh is tainted by sin regardless. If it comes down to me making a decision based on I feel vs. being based on the Word of God...I'll take the scriptures every time, they are perfect, God-breathed. Everything we need to know is revealed to us in the scriptures. God does not give us some kind of on-going revelation, He has given us the mind of Christ in the Holy Scriptures.

Grace to you.

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