Judaism & Jews

BGMCFAR said:

To answer your question Judism means you came from the tribe of Judah or slang Jew or Jewish my heritdge comes from the tribe of Levi and the tribe of Judah sowhat is my heritdge I'm Hebrew Modern socalled Judism was starrted bya Rabi several cenuries ago Israel is alll of the 12 tribes combined together so we are all decendents of Abraham

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Judaism is a faith, Jewish is the heritage of the tribe of Judah... and those are two separate items... not the same thing.

Heber said:

My last comment was serious - what difference does it really make at the end of the day that so many want to be Jews?

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Maybe its a comfort to people tobelieve that they belong to the same thic group as Christ I just found out about my Jewish heritage, but does that cahnge my relaionship with Christ know But does make me proud of my Jewish heritdge as well as my Scottish heritdge . In the end weatherJewish or not the most important thing is the Messiah.

visionary said:

Judaism is a faith, Jewish is the heritage of the tribe of Judah... and those are two separate items... not the same thing.

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Thank you for clarifing that for me I appreciate that I'm learning Ihave a ways to go peace be with you

I have no desire to be anything but what I am... blood line of a heinz 57. where is counts is my faith, and I believe in the Holy One of Israel is the only one True God... as encountered by the writer of scripture.

No worries. Prove it wrong.

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no need, its complete bunk.

best if entirely avoided like the plague.

Te'omaAbadEl said:

Do you think you have to be a member of the religion of Judaism to be a Jew? If so can you provide reasons for this in scripture?

When did the religion called Judaism come into existence?

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I would apprciate if some would answer these questions so that I can gain a better understanding.

Toda.

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The book with this link The Conflict Of The Church And The Synagogue (1961) by James Frankes explores the history contrasted between Judaism and Christianity.

In a few places within the book, a third group is mentioned that doesn't exactly fit into either group.

It will be thus seen that at the beginning Judaism had the
whip hand of Christianity, in that it was the Jews who
decided what a Jew was, and who had the right to be
admitted to the privileges they enjoyed. By the simple act
of excommunication they could expel a Christian from these
privileges and report against him as an atheist. Moreover,
so long as the Christians chose to remain officially, at least
a Jewish sect, they were subject to the discipline of the
synagogue.

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Now the above isn't exactly scripture, also the whole book is a little laborious to read through, but never the less it does provide some fairly neutral information about why people are what we are today. That would include the blurry line between Messianic Judaism with the Church and Synagogue.

From what I've read and hear, it does seem the Apostle Paul would be more at home within Messianic Judaism first then the Synagogue and finally mainstream Churches.

"Therefore, if an uncircumcised man keeps the righteous requirements of the law... but he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the Spirit, not in the letter; whose praise is not from men but from God." (Ro 2:26.29)

Shalom Te'oma,

There were 13 tribes of Israel known as the children of Israel. The southern 2 tribes, Judah and Benjamin were known as the house of Judah. They were carried away into captivity in Babylon in 635 BC, around this time they were referred to as Jews according to Scripture and to this day their descendants are known as Jews.

Since Torah cannot be practiced without the Temple, Jews who rejected Yeshua had a problem after the Temple was destroyed. The result was the Jewish council met at Yavne and invented a new religion that does not require a temple and animal sacrifices and they called this religion Judaism.

So one cannot become Jewish by joining a man made religion. Jews are a nation chosen by God for a purpose. One is either born Jewish or not.

Te'omaAbadEl said:

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Who is a Jew?

Who is Jewish?

Do you think you have to be a member of the religion of Judaism to be a Jew? If so can you provide reasons for this in scripture?

When did the religion called Judaism come into existence?

When the scriptures refer to Jews are the scriptures referring to members of the religion of Judaism (Jewish people) or members of the body of Israel?

Do you see a difference between the Israelites and the Jewish people?



Where do the words Yehudi and Yehudim originiate from?
Where does the 'ish' in the word 'Jewish' originate from?
What does 'ish' imply in the english language?
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I would apprciate if some would answer these questions so that I can gain a better understanding.

Toda.

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simchat_torah said:

no need, its complete bunk.

best if entirely avoided like the plague.

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then why bring it up

Here is what I know to be true

Romans 2:28-29 (New International Version)


28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

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I interpret that to mean that we are nothing apart of Yeshua (even those of us who are Jewish)...and regardless of our heritage we have to be His...and God is making us His no matter what blood is running thru our veins.

Some may be trying to dress up the outer man to get the praises of men, but in the end it wont matter how Jewish we look on the outside.... we are either going to be recognized by Yeshua as His or not.

I wonder if Paul was having the same discussion with folks when he said

Romans 3:27-28
27 Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. On what principle? On that of observing the law? No, but on that of faith. 28For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from observing the law.

As Messianics I think we know this and any extra benefit we receive from the Torah is a "get to" not a "have to"

Tishri1 said:

Some may be trying to dress up the outer man to get the praises of men, but in the end it wont matter how Jewish we look on the outside

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Is this seriously what you think of Jews?

Talmidah said:

Is this seriously what you think of Jews?

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This is what I think of Jewish people.

Jewish born people are beloved to God. This is why it breaks his heart that Jewish religious leaders were infiltrated and corrupted to the point they steered the Jewish born people away from their very own Messiah.

God still loves Jewish born people. And God still wants Jewish born people to be spiritually reborn Jews. Salvation is still first for the Jewish born people and then for the Gentile born people, making both spiritually reborn Jews / Spirit Israel (where there is no longer any distinction between Jew or Gentile or male or female or class structure poor / rich, free / slave).

Jewish born people are still God's people of earth.

Jewish reborn people are God's people from earth (having new citizenship in the New Jerusalem).

Jewish reborn people do not replace nor displace Jewish born people. But to enter heaven (New Jerusalem) even born Jewish people must become reborn Jewish people.

Reborn Jewish people owe born Jewish people a great debt for their suffering to bring the Truth (written i.e. scripture, and living i.e. Messiah) into the world.

I may get into heated discussions at times with Jewish born people but it is never against them, only against the false teaching that deprives them of their very own Messiah and of life eternal... which I very much want for the Jewish born people!!!

I love Jewish born people and pray and work everyday for them to become Jewish reborn people in Yeshua HaMoshiakh.

That is how I feel about Jews.

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “The time is coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

What if (as in the wilderness wandering) the people chose to remain in Egypt? The golden calf was right out of the Paganism Made Easy for Egyptians handbook...

Bear with me. Something prophetic was taking place. In not only the entire nations' deception, but also in the percentages of life lost when the Man came down to rectify the situation...

So... what if the New Covenant was boycotted the same way the Old Covenant was at first?

It means being born a Jew doesn't mean automatic covenant membership.

One must become a party (partee as in part of the sacrifice made to seal the covenant)...

And these are not just statistics but stipulations:

Jeremiah 31:31-34
31 “The time is coming,” declares the LORD, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.
32 It will not be like the covenant I made with their forefathers when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they broke my covenant, though I was a husband to them,” declares the LORD.
33 “This is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after that time,” declares the LORD. “I will put my law in their minds and write it on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor, or a man his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest,” declares the LORD. “For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”

Suppose those physically born in the house of Judah and the house of Israel refuse to partake?

Romans 9:6
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

They "other" Israel spoken of here is Spirit Israel as this is a spiritual matter (the physical being what God tried to wean the people from all along).

Philippians 3:3
3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—

Echoes of:

John 4:19-24
19 “Sir,” the woman said, “I can see that you are a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, but you Jews claim that the place where we must worship is in Jerusalem.”
21 Jesus declared, “Believe me, woman, a time is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You Samaritans worship what you do not know; we worship what we do know, for salvation is from the Jews.
23 Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks.
24 God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”

...the distinction between the physical and the spiritual...

Hebrews 11
1 Now faith is being sure of what we hope for and certain of what we do not see.
2 This is what the ancients were commended for.
3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible.
4 By faith Abel offered God a better sacrifice than Cain did. By faith he was commended as a righteous man, when God spoke well of his offerings. And by faith he still speaks, even though he is dead.
5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life, so that he did not experience death; he could not be found, because God had taken him away. For before he was taken, he was commended as one who pleased God.
6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that comes by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place he would later receive as his inheritance, obeyed and went, even though he did not know where he was going.
9 By faith he made his home in the promised land like a stranger in a foreign country; he lived in tents, as did Isaac and Jacob, who were heirs with him of the same promise.
10 For he was looking forward to the city with foundations, whose architect and builder is God.
11 By faith Abraham, even though he was past age—and Sarah herself was barren—was enabled to become a father because he considered him faithful who had made the promise.
12 And so from this one man, and he as good as dead, came descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and as countless as the sand on the seashore.
13 All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised; they only saw them and welcomed them from a distance. And they admitted that they were aliens and strangers on earth.
14 People who say such things show that they are looking for a country of their own.
15 If they had been thinking of the country they had left, they would have had opportunity to return.
16 Instead, they were longing for a better country—a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them.
17 By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had received the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son,
18 even though God had said to him, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”
19 Abraham reasoned that God could raise the dead, and figuratively speaking, he did receive Isaac back from death.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau in regard to their future.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was dying, blessed each of Joseph’s sons, and worshiped as he leaned on the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when his end was near, spoke about the exodus of the Israelites from Egypt and gave instructions about his bones.
23 By faith Moses’ parents hid him for three months after he was born, because they saw he was no ordinary child, and they were not afraid of the king’s edict.
24 By faith Moses, when he had grown up, refused to be known as the son of Pharaoh’s daughter.
25 He chose to be mistreated along with the people of God rather than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a short time.
26 He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his reward.
27 By faith he left Egypt, not fearing the king’s anger; he persevered because he saw him who is invisible.
28 By faith he kept the Passover and the sprinkling of blood, so that the destroyer of the firstborn would not touch the firstborn of Israel.
29 By faith the people passed through the Red Sea as on dry land; but when the Egyptians tried to do so, they were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell, after the people had marched around them for seven days.
31 By faith the prostitute Rahab, because she welcomed the spies, was not killed with those who were disobedient.
32 And what more shall I say? I do not have time to tell about Gideon, Barak, Samson, Jephthah, David, Samuel and the prophets,
33 who through faith conquered kingdoms, administered justice, and gained what was promised; who shut the mouths of lions,
34 quenched the fury of the flames, and escaped the edge of the sword; whose weakness was turned to strength; and who became powerful in battle and routed foreign armies.
35 Women received back their dead, raised to life again. Others were tortured and refused to be released, so that they might gain a better resurrection.
36 Some faced jeers and flogging, while still others were chained and put in prison.
37 They were stoned; they were sawed in two; they were put to death by the sword. They went about in sheepskins and goatskins, destitute, persecuted and mistreated—
38 the world was not worthy of them. They wandered in deserts and mountains, and in caves and holes in the ground.
39 These were all commended for their faith, yet none of them received what had been promised.
40 God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Ephesians 2:8-10
8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Philippians 3:3
3 For it is we who are the circumcision, we who worship by the Spirit of God, who glory in Christ Jesus, and who put no confidence in the flesh—

John 3:16-18
16 “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.
18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

then why bring it up

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I didn't. Johnd is the one to have brought up the nonsensical and offensive replacement theology bunk.

There were rules at one time from posting this type of garbage, but no one bother's to enforce them or the rules went out the window.

Either way, tripe like this continues unchecked. Its bunk dear, and no, I didn't bring it up... it comes up at least weekly on its own.

simchat_torah said:

I didn't. Johnd is the one to have brought up the nonsensical and offensive replacement theology bunk.

There were rules at one time from posting this type of garbage, but no one bother's to enforce them or the rules went out the window.

Either way, tripe like this continues unchecked. Its bunk dear, and no, I didn't bring it up... it comes up at least weekly on its own.

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Silly Yafet, rules only apply to Joooz.

oh right. me forgots.

btw, love the sig shir

thx Yaf, it goes out with prayer for HaShem's light and life to rule and reign.

Looking back at this thread 6 months later, we can assuredly state without reserve: