Does one need to be baptized in order to be saved?

Paul1965 said:

I know of the verses you qoute. I guess I'm thinking of the verse: "By grace are you saved through faith,not of works lest anyone boast." This verse points to faith alone I think. As I stated in my previous post, I believe that hearing the word, repentance, confession, and baptism are all elements of faith. Does that mean that God will reject someone who is not baptized? You say yes. I say I don't know. Then again, why would a believer not be baptized? That's why I believe in returning to the New Testament standard of baptism upon/or part of conversion. Actually, I don't think God says, "unless you are baptized you will not enter the kingdom of heaven." But that's what you are saying! I'm not trying to argue, as I am a very strong proponent of baptism of a believer by immersion! I was baptized when I was 30 at a church of Christ. I suspect that's your church, cougan! I was involved in Restoration Movement Churches for 10 years. I am now part of Church of God (Anderson) movement. It does not exclude Christians that are from denominations, but embraces them as brothers and sisters in Christ. They are pro-baptism by immersion. The central theme is salvation through Jesus Christ. Obviously this debate has been going on for centuries. People have different opinions and they must be respected. I think good debate on the topic is valid though! You definitley have a valid arguement for you position, cougan! By the way, my son has Cerebral Palsey and is unable to hold his breath at command or at will. What do you think about immersion for him except putting his head under the water?

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Thanks for your response. First of all, I want you to understand that I belive what the verse says that you quoted:

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.

Without God's grace none of us would be saved. It would not mater if we belived with all our heart, without God's gift of grace, we would all be lost. Grace is God's gift, and we accept His gift by having an obedient faith. Just read the through the OT and the NT and you will see that God has always demanded an obedient faith and not just belief alone. Look at the verses carefully, you will not see the term grace alone or faith alone.

Where people get confused is this idea of works, but you need to understand that there are different works. There are works of merit, works of the Law of Moses, and works of obedience/rightousness.

Works of merit and works of the Law of Moses are those works that have nothing to do with salvation, but works of obedience/righteousness are works that we do accept God's grace. These kind of works do not earn you anything, but are done out of love for God. Jesus explained it best in:

Luke 17:7 "And which of you, having a servant plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come at once and sit down to eat'? 8 "But will he not rather say to him, 'Prepare something for my supper, and gird yourself and serve me till I have eaten and drunk, and afterward you will eat and drink'? 9 "Does he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I think not. 10 "So likewise you, when you have done all those things which you are commanded, say, 'We are unprofitable servants. We have done what was our duty to do.' "

When we obey what God has told us to do, we do not expect God to thank us for it, we simply do our duty. Obedience to God's Word is key:

Without obedience we do not receive the Holy Spirit:

Acts 5:32 "And we are His witnesses to these things, and so also is the Holy Spirit whom God has given to those who obey Him."

We do not receive God's grace or salvation:

Romans 1:5 Through Him we have received grace and apostleship for obedience to the faith among all nations for His name

Hebrews 5:9 And having been perfected, He became the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him,

We are commanded to be doers of God's Word and not hearers only James 1:22.

Having an obedient faith is neccessary for salvation because it requires us to humble ourselves before God, which a requirment for grace:

1 Peter 5:5 for "God resists the proud, But gives grace to the humble."

You say they are pro-baptism, but do they teach that baptism is for the forgiveness of sins as Peter did (Acts 2:38) or do they teach that you are already saved before baptism and that baptism is just symbolic of you already being saved?

Think about it, if I am correct on what the Bible teaches about baptism and the majority of the denomantions baptize people because they are already saved or to joing their paticulur denomination, then it means that they are all lost because they are not in Chirst and they have not had their sins washed away.

Can you think a better trick the devil could pull off than convincing people that they are saved when they are not. He does not care if millions of people act like Christians, walk like Christians, and do many good deeds in the name of God as long as he prevents them from actually becoming Christians as God has specified. They think they are Christians all day long, but it does not change what God's Word says is neccessary for salvation.

Simply living the Christian life without being one will not get you into heaven. As Jesus said:

Matthew 7:21 " Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'

I am not saying all these things in these post to try to win an argument. I am very concerned about everyone and I beleive they have dupped into beliving a lie. Baptism is one the most clear teachings in the NT. I could understand why someone would be confused if there were on a few passages on baptism, but NT has much to say about it.

In regards to you son. If he is knows what he must do to be saved and he wants to be baptized into Christ for the forgivess of his sins, it can be done. One does not have to stay under the water long at all, and I consult a doctor first, but I see no reason why two people could not get into the water with your son. One person could help immerse him, while the other person cupped their hand over his nose and mouth tightly. It does not take but a second to dip them and it can be done realtivey safe.

We had a member in our church with a daugther that has a similar problem and she wanted to be baptized because she knew what she needed to do, so he baptized her a pool.

So it can be done.

Thanks cougan for the gracious response! I guess the hardest part for me is my family members who profess to be Christians for years and haven't been baptized as prescribed by scripture. I don't want to believe they are lost. Regarding the baptism of my son with Cerebral Palsy, I like your thought on his immersion. Thanks!

The thief on the cross beside Jesus wasn't baptized. Jesus told him he would see him later in paradise.

It's a simple answer. NO!! Baptismal regeneration is a heresy.

Maybe I`m looking at this backwards, but what about wanting to be baptized. I wasn`t baptized as an infant, but chose to as an adult as part of my spiritual journey. My question is why wouldn`t someone want to be baptized? And didn't John proclaim that while he baptized with water, that Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit? That being the case, the liquid part doesn't really matter does it?

Salvation is by Faith alone in the Church Age. You will not be able to find one verse in Romans-Philemon that says works like baptism is necessary for Salvation. Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles(us). We must remember that we are not Jews and Jewish passages are not directly to us for doctrine. For one to understand this subject, he must know how to rightly divide the word of God.

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." KJB

I suggest this link: Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth by C.I. Scofield

I believe that when we accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour, afterward we should get baptized because it is being obedient to God and it symbolizes Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Baptism does not have a part in saving us, nor does any other good work, but good works SHOULD be a result in our Salvation.

God bless

Found a transcript of sermon by John MacArthur entitled: "Baptism: A Matter of Obedience." It is very inspiring. It's quite long but worth the read. Because I'm a newbie I can't put a link on here. You can find it ondoctrine.com then search for it there!

Over and over again in scripture it says that you believe and are baptized. Not because you are saved by it, but because it is a proclamation to everyone who see's you that you have made the commitment to follow Jesus Christ.

read matthew23:40-23

the criminal did not get baptized and jesus told him that he would be with him in paradise. now you might say "he didnt have the opportunity". fair enough, lets talk about that for a second.

theres a person who has committed their life to christ. they're a part of the church and are very much trusting and obedient to God. they havent been baptized yet but they have made plans to do so and have a date set. the day comes when they are to be baptized and as they're driving to the church where they're gonna do it....BAM!! hit by a semi truck, dies instantly. are you going to tell us today that a person who had every single intention to obey God in getting baptized is gonna be denied salvation because he got killed on the way to his own baptism?

baptism is about obeying God, not a factor in whether your sins will be forgiven. thats already been done. with that said, everyone who has the opportunity to get baptized must do it simply because this is what we are commanded to do as followers of christ and to reject this is unrighteousness(matt 3:13-15)

for those who have issues with water there are arrangements that can be made. talk to your pastor.

I believe you must say the sinner's prayer and then get baptized. The Bible says the only way to Heaven is through Jesus. Therefore you must believe that Jesus is Lord ask him into your heart and then get baptized. If you don't say the sinner's prayer first then you're just getting dunked in water. But note that this is my opion and I what I believe in.

we are called said:

Maybe I`m looking at this backwards, but what about wanting to be baptized. I wasn`t baptized as an infant, but chose to as an adult as part of my spiritual journey. My question is why wouldn`t someone want to be baptized? And didn't John proclaim that while he baptized with water, that Jesus baptized with the Holy Spirit? That being the case, the liquid part doesn't really matter does it?

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You don't have to be baptised as a baby some religions believe that but I don't.

Christian_Babe234 said:

I believe you must say the sinner's prayer and then get baptized. The Bible says the only way to Heaven is through Jesus. Therefore you must believe that Jesus is Lord ask him into your heart and then get baptized. If you don't say the sinner's prayer first then you're just getting dunked in water. But note that this is my opion and I what I believe in.

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Ephesians 2:8 "For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast." KJB

Did you read my post above yours? What makes you think that anything you do can save you? It is by the Blood of Jesus Christ are you able to be saved. It is by Faith alone in Jesus Christ. We are not to add to the Salvation of God. Getting dunked in water is a good work we do and it is an act of obedience, but it does not have any part in Salvation.

BELIEVER'S BAPTISM IN THE BIBLE

I agree with Cody2's post above, it is by Christ's blood alone that we are saved. I see water baptism as an outward statement of that faith, but not as an essential element of salvation.

I have been baptised but am not this is as important as being confirmed. Is this the view of others or am I alone?

I believe it is more important as it is your own choice, baptism is done before you can make up your own mind.

biblesnippets.com

Cody2 said:

Salvation is by Faith alone in the Church Age. You will not be able to find one verse in Romans-Philemon that says works like baptism is necessary for Salvation.

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Romans 6:3-11 (KJV):
3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Colossians 2:12-13:
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

Conclusion:
Romans 6 declares that baptism is God's way for us to be united with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection. It is where we die to sin, become freed from it, and become alive to God. Per Colossians 2, this operation is accomplished by our faith.

Questions for Thought:
1.) Can one be saved (i.e., freed from sin per Romans 6:7) without being united with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection?
2.) Romans 6:7 discusses being freed from sin, and Colossians 2:13 discusses trespasses being forgiven - synonymous thoughts. According to the context of each passage when is this accomplished?
3. According to Colossians 2:12, how should baptism be described: by faith in the working of God, or a work that man does? If baptism indeed unites us with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection as Romans 6 describes, is that a work of man or of God?

Cody2 said:

Paul was the Apostle to the Gentiles(us). We must remember that we are not Jews and Jewish passages are not directly to us for doctrine. For one to understand this subject, he must know how to rightly divide the word of God.

2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." KJB

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Let's note the context of Ephesians 2:

1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Note the text in red-bolded font. Compare these thoughts with Colossians 2:12-13. Hmmm. They match. Imagine that ... God's grace being discussed in the context of the blessings that occur in baptism. Furthermore, let's backtrack in the book of Ephesians to 1:7, which says, " In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace." The "in whom" refers to "in Christ" -- a common point in the book of Ephesians. Therefore, the question is asked, "Then, how does one get into Christ to enjoy this redemption through Jesus' blood - the forgiveness of sins?" The answer is declared in Galatians 3: "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ" (vs. 26-27). Note the coupling of faith and baptism as explained in Colossians 2:12. For additional thought, perhaps we should consider the inspired record of the conversion of the Ephesians in Acts 19:1-5. Hmmm. Now this is very interesting. The Ephesians were baptized. This thought agrees with the blessings described in Colossians 2:12 and Ephesians 2:5-6a. And, it sets the context for Ephesians 2:8-9. We are saved by faith ... if we do what the Lord commands for salvation. The Ephesians did. They obeyed what they were taught.

Cody2 said:

I believe that when we accept Jesus Christ as our Saviour, afterward we should get baptized because it is being obedient to God and it symbolizes Jesus' death, burial and resurrection. Baptism does not have a part in saving us, nor does any other good work, but good works SHOULD be a result in our Salvation.

God bless

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Would you agree that "I believe" isn't quite equivalent to "speaking as the oracles of God" per 1 Peter 4:11a?

Let's note what commonly called the Great Comission in Matthew 28:
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world.

Note that "teach" is commanded twice. The first time it is associated with baptism, the second involves teaching them "all things" (i.e., the good works that follow salvation per my understanding). The interesting thing is to follow the apostles (and other first-century Christians) as they go about carrying out these commands by the Lord. Their teaching is recorded in the book of Acts. By doing so we can discern what they taught was necessary for salvation, and what wasn't.

As for your comments about Jewish doctrine versus Gentile doctrine, God joins both Jews and Gentiles into one body, His church, as discussed in Ephesians 2-4. Note carefully Ephesians 4:1-6. God's people are to be unified. No hint of Jews had to follow Jewish doctrine and Gentiles had to follow Gentile doctrine. Rather, they were united by the Spirit of God into one body of called-out believers. Everything was common ... from the Lord, to their faith, to their baptism. No difference.

In His service.

We are called by Christ to be Baptized after being saved as a public display of your belief in, and following of, Him. It's not part of the being saved process, necessarily.

Ex. If you were saved today (Friday) and set to be Baptized on Sunday, but died tomorrow (Saturday), then you would still go to Heaven.

sphsjags said:

We are called by Christ to be Baptized after being saved as a public display of your belief in, and following of, Him. It's not part of the being saved process, necessarily.

Ex. If you were saved today (Friday) and set to be Baptized on Sunday, but died tomorrow (Saturday), then you would still go to Heaven.

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If one is saved before baptism, then one is saved before his/her sins are forgiven (note Acts 2:38, Acts 22:16).

Romans 6:3-11 details what occurs during baptism. It is God's way for the sinner to be united with Jesus' death, burial, and resurrection so he/she can die to sins, be freed from them, and become alive to God. That means prior to baptism one is dead in sins, not freed from them, and dead to God. I don't see how a person could be saved in such a condition.

I don't see why one needs to be baptized in order to be transformed into a new life.
What about the countless other people who have different beliefs or who never came in touch with Christians? Should they all end up in hell because they were never baptized?

Kutte

sphsjags said:

We are called by Christ to be Baptized after being saved as a public display of your belief in, and following of, Him. It's not part of the being saved process, necessarily.

Ex. If you were saved today (Friday) and set to be Baptized on Sunday, but died tomorrow (Saturday), then you would still go to Heaven.

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That's correct.

Jesus never promoted immersing in water before He rose, He promoted immersing in The Holy Spirit,..

Act 1:5 For John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

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Spiritual immersion/baptism has the emphasis placed on it by Jesus, not water anymore. Water immersion died out with John the baptist and the OT, and it was only symbolic of what we were to eventually receive from Jesus when He was seated at the right hand of The Father.

Water regeneration is a fallacy.

Kutte said:

I don't see why one needs to be baptized in order to be transformed into a new life.

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If the remission (forgiveness) of sins is important, then baptism is important per Acts 2:38. See also Acts 22:16.

Kutte said:

What about the countless other people who have different beliefs or who never came in touch with Christians? Should they all end up in hell because they were never baptized?

Kutte

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Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me." - John 14:6 NKJV

Baptism is God's way for us to be united with His Son's death, burial, and resurrection and where we die to sins, are freed from them, and become alive to God (Romans 6:3-11). Baptism is based on faith in the working of God per Colossians 2:12. And, faith is an absolute necessity to please God (Hebrews 11:6). Therefore, the real problem is the lack of faith in believing God's plan for redeeming man through His Son.