Police Use of Tasers

pgp_protector said:

Let's give the police these tasers

They'll still have them, but might not want to be seen using em

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That's funny!

I agree from certain media events that tasers may be a problem. I think a better solution to taking them away is to train the officers better in using them, by pointing out these media events as examples of what not to do. Using a taser incorrectly should be treated just as harshly as using a gun incorrectly. Also, Hello Kitty tasers might be a great fix.

I've never been tasered. I don't know what it feels like. I was shocked relatively badly before, but a taser is probably worse since it can knock you out. Anyone here ever been tasered?

Chesterton said:

I don't know - if I was a cop and I couldn't handle an 80 year-old woman without using a weapon, I'd probably look for another line of work.

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Bill Maher said the exact thing on his show.

-Lyn

Chesterton said:

(This might be for Americans only. I don't know what other folks are doing.)

What do ya'll think of the way police use tasers? When tasers for police came out, they were touted as being an alternative to using the lethal force of a gun, so I assumed they would only be used in those instances where a gun might otherwise have to be used. But in recent years, there've been many incidents of what I consider to be improper taser use: a man already pinned down on the ground by 4 cops is tased; a man with his family is tased during a traffic stop because he's told to "stand here" and he walks away; an unarmed, 80 year-old grandmother tased because she's resisting the cop; the mentally ill man at the airport who was acting strange, didn't speak English, didn't cooperate because he couldn't understand the security guard, and got tased and died from it.

If something controversial or sensational happens to get caught on video, it might make the news. But for every incident such as the above, there must be many which are not caught on video, so we never know about them. I think tasers are probably a good idea, but I don't like the way they're being used. I think their use has sort of slipped down a slippery slope.

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One main problem with tazers is that they are limited range currently so where as witha gun you may have more of athreat from longer distances you do have a shorter range to use the tazer.

Police need to be tried in criminal court for aggravated assault for blatantly obvious misuse of tasers. They have to be convicted by a unanimous vote of the jury, just like everybody else. They won't be convicted unless it's obvious.

Does anybody here know any googleable details (like names or places) about this case that happened in the south, earlier this year or late last?

(oh, I use the word 'tase' here, but...I'm actually not sure if it was a taser or a stun gun, involved.)

An man (your call whether the fact that he's black had anything to do with it) was arrested for drug dealing and told to lie on the ground so they could handcuff him. He mostly cooperated--was going to let them handcuff him standing up--but didn't want to lie down, so the two officers arresting him tased him to get him down.

1.

They then handcuffed his hands, *and* his ankles, and told him to stand back up. At this point, it's important to mention that he was very overweight. He couldn't stand up, and they told him to hurry it up, and tased him twice more for not following orders--while he was on the ground, with his hands and ankles cuffed.

2 and 3

So, they toss him in the back of the car, and tase him again two more times while he's in there...apparently for being combative.

4 and 5

They arrive at the police station, and order him out of the back of the car. He doesn't move. So they drag him out and shock him another two times

6 and 7.

The coroner's report said that he was dead for the last two. He'd had a heart attack in the back of the car.

But...I can't remember names! Does anybody know what I'm talking about?

I sure am glad that the police in this country don’t regularly use tasers on our citizens.

I find police carrying guns frightening. I think I would find police carrying tasers more so.

It's happening over here (Australia) as well.

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/1027967/Tasers-'won't-be-suspended'-despite-death


Tasers ‘won’t be suspended’ despite death

12 June 2009 | 06:48:53 PM | Source: AAP

Queensland police will continue to carry Tasers despite a third Australian death linked to police use of the stun guns.


Hours after a man died near Townsville after being repeatedly stunned with a Taser, police said the devices had been shown to save lives.

The death of the man, who police recently took to hospital fearing he might be a suicide risk, will be investigated.

But Queensland Police Minister Neil Roberts ruled out suspending police use of Tasers while the investigation is completed.

"The evidence to date has shown that the mere presentation of Tasers has defused situations," he said.

"I believe the Taser has saved people's lives."

Calls for suspension

Civil libertarians said the death of the 39-year-old may expose the myth that Tasers are harmless, and police use should be suspended until all the facts of the case are known.

It's the third death in Australia linked to police use of Taser guns.

A man died in Alice Springs last month after police stunned him with a Taser. And in May 2002, NSW man Gary Pearce died of a heart attack about two weeks after being shot with a stun gun when he threatened police with a frying pan.

It was one of the first uses of the weapon in NSW but police omitted the Taser link from official records, including on the violent, mentally-ill man's death certificate.

It was only made public in November last year in a report by the NSW Ombudsman, which recommended a two-year moratorium on the rollout of Tasers to all general duties police, pending an independent review.

Man tasered three times before death

In Friday's incident, police said they were called to a property at Brandon, near Townsville, where they found a man semi-naked, covered in blood and armed with an iron bar.

A woman who knew him had called triple-zero, alleging he'd assaulted her and pulled out her hair.

Two rookie officers who attended the scene said the man was acting violently and deemed him a threat to himself and police, Queensland Police Union acting president Ian Leavers said.

The officers decided to subdue him with capsicum spray and the Taser gun. But three stuns from a male officer's weapon were required before the man could be handcuffed.

The man remained conscious for a short period after being stunned, but soon became unresponsive, Mr Leavers said. Efforts to revive him failed.

"This person was extremely violent, very well known to police and a known drug user," he told AAP.

He also revealed that police had taken the man to Townsville Hospital less than 48 hours before his death, after finding him lying on railway tracks.

Officers had feared he was suicidal, Mr Leavers said.

A Townsville Hospital spokeswoman declined to comment but it's believed the man was allowed to leave the facility of his own accord.

Probe into death pending

The death is being investigated by the coroner, the Crime and Misconduct Commission and the police Ethical Standards Command.

Police Commissioner Bob Atkinson said the two officers involved in the incident were a woman in her first year of service and a man who had served only a few years.

He defended the use of Tasers and said he didn't believe the incident would spark a broader investigation into their use.

"We think and still absolutely believe that the Taser is a valid and very effective force option that prevents the use of a firearm," he said.

But Civil liberties lawyer Terry O'Gorman said: "Until the coroner investigation evaluates the safety of Tasers, the police commissioner should immediately order a directive that they should not be used unless in life and death circumstances."

ranmaonehalf said:

One main problem with tazers is that they are limited range currently so where as witha gun you may have more of athreat from longer distances you do have a shorter range to use the tazer.

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You have heard about the new Taser X12 right ?

Shoots a shell via a Shotgun with a self contained TASER

If you resist arrest you deserve to get tased.
I'd rather see a cop use a taser than a night stick, gun or havnig them grapple with the person.

In the case of the older lady physically restraining her would've done far more damage. I watched the video many times and the cop did absolutely nothing wrong.

levi501 said:

If you resist arrest you deserve to get tased.

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thats why its immoral/unethical for cops to use excessive force in situations that don't warrant it. Sometimes a cop will just tase someone in situations that don't call for it. Thats what the discussion is about.

I'd rather see a cop use a taser than a night stick, gun or havnig them grapple with the person.

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yes on the night stick and gun. But not about grappling. but sometimes a cop is just so scrawny he has to give himself an advantage over the criminal.

In the case of the older lady physically restraining her would've done far more damage. I watched the video many times and the cop did absolutely nothing wrong.

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that cop needs to find another job. like mall cop.

mpok1519 said:

yes on the night stick and gun. But not about grappling. but sometimes a cop is just so scrawny he has to give himself an advantage over the criminal.

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Absurd.
The cop could get hurt. The criminal is far more likely to get hurt than if a taser was used. The cop could have his gun come into play if it's reached for by the criminal.

mpok1519 said:

that cop needs to find another job. like mall cop.

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Thankfully law enforcement officials disagreed with you and supported him.

levi501 said:

Absurd.
The cop could get hurt. The criminal is far more likely to get hurt than if a taser was used. The cop could have his gun come into play if it's reached for by the criminal.

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but the suspect's saftey is never in question. Even when a cop is using excessive/unwarranted force/investigation. It doesn't matter to you that there are plenty of dangerous individuals out there with a badge and a gun.

Thankfully law enforcement officials disagreed with you and supported him.

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cops usually do agree with each other. And many times are willing to make perjurous claims in a curt of law to protect each other. Cops can fudge evidence in order to give them an advantage.

like this one time; a cop literally broke into my apartment. Had I said "Hey, you cant do that! thats illegal! someone help me please!" he would've ordered me to be quiet, or threaten me with force. Luckily, he no longer is a cop due to our own surveillence evidence, thank God.

cops hate video cameras when they don't know they're there.

Chesterton said:

I get tased every Saturday night; why do you think I wrote the OP? (just kidding) No I never have. Closest I've had is the shock you get from a household electrical current. Only lasted a split second, too short to have time to think about, and it's pretty awful.

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I got a similarly bad shock. I don't know about awful: I think it actually felt kind of cool. It was sort of like the movies, where I was stuck to it for a second or two vibrating uncontrollably, and then pushed back relatively forcefully. I found out that it was enough amperage to kill me, but I guess it didn't pass through my heart. (I assume that it went through my hand, and then down through my feet to the floor, instead of across my chest.) I was left with a numb, tingling feeling in my arm for like an hour.

(Or maybe I'm just weird for thinking it wasn't awful.)

Since tasers have absurd voltage levels, I assume it would be beyond cool and into agonizing. Maybe I should go out and do something bad, resist arrest, get tasered, and come back and report my findings.

I agree with Maher on something? You just ruined my day.

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I figured that would bother you.

-Lyn

RevSJamison said:

Let me guess, you're pro-choice and anti-gun?? With one hand you give and with the other you take away?

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If it makes you feel better Rev, I'm pro-life, anti-abortion, anti-gun, anti-war, and anti-death penalty. But people seem to ignore the first one and chew me out for the other three since apparently I'm a heathen for not wanting to kill people. Anyway.

In my perfect fantasy world, guns were never invented. I don't know who invented him, but I don't know what he was thinking. But unfortunately we don't live in my fantasy world. Twilight exists, my furniture is not Ikea, and David Hasselhoff continues to be David Hasselhoff.

But in the real world, I don't believe we should be getting rid of tasers. Because certainly police misuse them, but the thing is you can train that out of them or if you can't you can simply fire them. Guns are more complicated since you're more likely to die from a gun wound then from a tase (unless you're tased seven times in a row in sensitive areas) and guns cause more accidents.

A cop has complete control over a taser most of the time. Obviously the person is resisting but at the chances of missing a mark where you'll only incapacitate them and not kill them aren't as likely. With a gun, you have a high likelihood of missing and if you miss they're certainly dead. Or you're certainly dead.

Tasers are one of those situations where cops just need to be educated more.

People who do not follow the instructions of police officers should be tasered.

People who resist arrest should be tasered.

If we do not use tasers, I recommend large clubs to be swung at the head, face, kidneys and thighs.

I would feel better knowing that police had guns, tasers, clubs and shotguns in the trunks of their vehicles.

I want criminals to shake in their pants whent hey think of the Police, and I want protesters to fear interrupting public traffic and communication.

I think protestors who intentionally disrupt traffic and society should be jailed for longer than t hey are.

jmverville said:

People who do not follow the instructions of police officers should be tasered.

People who resist arrest should be tasered.

If we do not use tasers, I recommend large clubs to be swung at the head, face, kidneys and thighs.

I would feel better knowing that police had guns, tasers, clubs and shotguns in the trunks of their vehicles.

I want criminals to shake in their pants whent hey think of the Police, and I want protesters to fear interrupting public traffic and communication.

I think protestors who intentionally disrupt traffic and society should be jailed for longer than t hey are.

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I'm somewhat stumped by this entire topic. Is it only in recent times that the police have had to arrest someone? If not, how on earth did they manage to do so previously without the use of tasers?

The above post smacks of 'police state' mentality'. Believe me ...too many police have an immature gung-ho attitude to their job. The taser is such a wonderful and powerful toy for these types of people they would welcome any chance to use them. I don't believe in putting any more power into the hands of the police than is absolutely necessary. As mentioned, they functioned previously without tasers so why do we deem them so necessary now simply because someone invented them?

KCKID said:

I'm somewhat stumped by this entire topic. Is it only in recent times that the police have had to arrest someone? If not, how on earth did they manage to do so previously without the use of tasers?

The above post smacks of 'police state' mentality'. Believe me ...too many police have an immature gung-ho attitude to their job. The taser is such a wonderful and powerful toy for these types of people they would welcome any chance to use them. I don't believe in putting any more power into the hands of the police than is absolutely necessary. As mentioned, they functioned previously without tasers so why do we deem them so necessary now simply because someone invented them?

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In the old days, they had fewer regulations on police and the police were hired for being "TOUGH GUYS!".

Would it be fair to have 5'4" male and female police officers to go into "RUMBLE MODE" with much larger, more powerful volks?

Not at all.

So tase them so they can be arrested.

mpok1519 said:

but the suspect's saftey is never in question. Even when a cop is using excessive/unwarranted force/investigation. It doesn't matter to you that there are plenty of dangerous individuals out there with a badge and a gun.

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What are you talking about and what does that have to do with what I said?
Bottom line is that tasing is far safer in many situations then any other form of restraining an individual. And by safer I mean everyone including the cop, the criminal and bystanders.

mpok1519 said:

cops usually do agree with each other. And many times are willing to make perjurous claims in a curt of law to protect each other. Cops can fudge evidence in order to give them an advantage.

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Patently false. Individual cops support each other but not police officials who have to appeal to the public to retain their jobs. Cops are suspended at the drop of the hat for the tiniest things. That's how it is in Texas and that's where the incident with the older lady took place. And in that case he was suported completely - why? Well, the whole thing was on tape and he followed procedure to the letter.

mpok1519 said:

like this one time; a cop literally broke into my apartment. Had I said "Hey, you cant do that! thats illegal! someone help me please!" he would've ordered me to be quiet, or threaten me with force. Luckily, he no longer is a cop due to our own surveillence evidence, thank God.

cops hate video cameras when they don't know they're there.

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Well at least we know where your misguided and uninformed bias comes from.

I recommend everybody here go out and rent the movie "The Changeling."

The recent one, with Angelina Jolie playing an odd character for her-- not the old ghost movie.

And keep in mind that it's true.

When the police completely run the streets, it's not just the criminals who are 'shaking in their pants.'