Messianic Jews - bridge between Jews and Christians...

Heber

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This matter has come up, this afternoon, on other threads in this part of the forum. Tonight, in my mail box, was this communication from: Towards Jerusalem Council ii. The TJCii website is at: Toward Jerusalem Council II - Repentance and Reconciliation Between Jews and Gentiles

Read and discuss...



Introduction.
I believe that Messianic Jews can be a bridge between Christianity & Judaism. In discussions between Gentile Christians and Orthodox Jews, here are some pointers that have been of help in Ireland.

1. Many Orthodox Jews do not realise that Messianic Jews are not synonymous with the Jews for Jesus organisation - they are organised by Messianic Synagogues, celebrate the Jewish feasts etc. The Jerusalem Post (12th Feb. 09) ran an excellent 6 page article on Messianic Jews (email tjcii@eircom.net for article), which is useful to give to Orthodox Jews.

2. Where TJCII is involved in bringing Messianic Jews to speak in their country, it is vital that good relations between Gentile Christians and Orthodox Jews be maintained. In our case we informed the Orthodox Jews that the purpose of the visit was to educate the churches on the Jewish roots of their Christian faith, to stand against anti-semitism and to correct teaching on replacement theology.

3. Gentile Christians can reiterate to Orthodox Jews that we are committed to confessing all the Christian sins of history against the Jewish people, and that our encounter with the Messianic Jews forces the Churches to do this in a more marked way.

4. It is good to highlight that in Israel Messianic Jews are loyal citizens, pay their taxes, serve in the army, celebrate the Biblical Feasts and defend the right of Israel to exist. They are involved in running Drug Rehabilitation Centres, Women's Refuge Centres and Food Distribution Centres for poor Israelis etc. Originally Messianic Jews were part of Judaism until a split happened in the 1st and 2nd centuries

5. It is useful to highlight the the Roman Catholic Church is in informal dialogue with the Messianic Jewish movement, as the Orthodox tend to hold the Catholic church in esteem, but often have difficulty in understanding why the official repentance has not filtered down to ordinary Parish level.

6. Finally it can help to highlight what the Pope's personal preacher, Fr. Raniero Cantalamessa, wrote about Messianic Jews healing the schism between the Church and Israel: "The reconstitution of the Jewish Nation is a wonderful sign and opportunity for the Church .... Only now can Israel take up again the question of Jesus of Nazareth.... Quite a few in the Jewish religion... openly acknowledge Jesus as the Messiah and call themselves 'Messianic Jews'. These help us...realise that the great original schism... is not so much the schism between East & West or between Catholics & Protestants, as the more radical one between the Church & Israel."

Paddy Monaghan
TJCII Ireland
 

anisavta

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Why would the church and Israel be a "radical" schism?
Because they were taught that ideology a loooooong time ago and not many have countered it.
Thankfully that is changing. I think G~d is preparing the "fullness of time".
 
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visionary

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I thank God that all are "True Jews" who believe in Christ.
Make sure you clarify that you are not speaking of bloodlines and the physical tribal lineage here. Believing in Christ makes you a believer in the One True God of Israel. It does not make you an Israelite, nor a Jew by blood. It gives you a faith in the God of Israel. You can join the commonwealth of Israel.

I know you are taking a scripture...

Romans 2:29
But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

BUT

A "spiritual Jew" can be anyone who has taken on the faith and lives it out like Yeshua. It is one of the greatest phenomenons when a gentile is more "Jewish" in his/her faith because they are a believer in the One True God of Israel, and have jointed the commonwealth of this faith. The walk and talk reflects this change. It is not judiazing, as in works work but walking in the spirit of the truth given at Mount Sinai and epitomized by Yeshua and lived from within by the grace of the Holy Spirit..
 
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ShirChadash

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you folks claim to be a bridge between Jews and Christians, and nothing could be further from the truth. You all won't even understand -- nor will you correct errors that crop up in understanding, when apparently you could all offer a *Jewish* understanding that most Christians can not possibly have -- that all your scripture verse was saying there is that a Jew should be more than a Jew in the physical (circumcised) sense only -- he should be a spiritually circumcised (in the heart) Jew who belongs to HaShem. That's it. Nothing more. No gentile is ever a Jew in any way, without proper conversion to an established and legitimate, recognized branch of Judaism.

Deut 10
1 “At that time the LORD said to me, ‘Cut out for yourself two tablets of stone like the former ones, and come up to Me on the mountain, and make an ark of wood for yourself. 2 ‘I will write on the tablets the words that were on the former tablets which you shattered, and you shall put them in the ark.’ 3 “So I made an ark of acacia wood and cut out two tablets of stone like the former ones, and went up on the mountain with the two tablets in my hand. 4 “He wrote on the tablets, like the former writing, the Ten Commandments which the LORD had spoken to you on the mountain from the midst of the fire on the day of the assembly; and the LORD gave them to me. 5 “Then I turned and came down from the mountain and put the tablets in the ark which I had made; and there they are, as the LORD commanded me.”
6 (Now the sons of Israel set out from Beeroth Bene-jaakan to Moserah. There Aaron died and there he was buried and Eleazar his son ministered as priest in his place. 7 From there they set out to Gudgodah, and from Gudgodah to Jotbathah, a land of brooks of water. 8 At that time the LORD set apart the tribe of Levi to carry the ark of the covenant of the LORD, to stand before the LORD to serve Him and to bless in His name until this day. 9 Therefore, Levi does not have a portion or inheritance with his brothers; the LORD is his inheritance, just as the LORD your God spoke to him.)
10 “I, moreover, stayed on the mountain forty days and forty nights like the first time, and the LORD listened to me that time also; the LORD was not willing to destroy you. 11 “Then the LORD said to me, ‘Arise, proceed on your journey ahead of the people, that they may go in and possess the land which I swore to their fathers to give them.’
12 “Now, Israel, what does the LORD your God require from you, but to fear the LORD your God, to walk in all His ways and love Him, and to serve the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul, 13 and to keep the LORD’S commandments and His statutes which I am commanding you today for your good? 14 “Behold, to the LORD your God belong heaven and the highest heavens, the earth and all that is in it. 15 “Yet on your fathers did the LORD set His affection to love them, and He chose their descendants after them, even you above all peoples, as it is this day. 16 “So circumcise your heart, and stiffen your neck no longer. 17 “For the LORD your God is the God of gods and the Lord of lords, the great, the mighty, and the awesome God who does not show partiality nor take a bribe. 18 “He executes justice for the orphan and the widow, and shows His love for the alien by giving him food and clothing. 19 “So show your love for the alien, for you were aliens in the land of Egypt. 20 “You shall fear the LORD your God; you shall serve Him and cling to Him, and you shall swear by His name. 21 “He is your praise and He is your God, who has done these great and awesome things for you which your eyes have seen. 22 “Your fathers went down to Egypt seventy persons in all, and now the LORD your God has made you as numerous as the stars of heaven.
 
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Talmidah

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When I see statements like the above, it is my hope that the messianics here will set the above poster straight on such issues. Gentiles are not Jews no matter what spiritualizing away one might attempt because of one's faith.

Wow. I sure hope they do so as well. Without "spiritual Jews" nonsense.
 
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visionary

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No gentile is ever a Jew in any way, without proper conversion to an established and legitimate, recognized branch of Judaism.
We are more concerned with what is a spiritual Jew in God's eyes. Conversion to the recognized branch of today's Judaism is not quite there where God wants them to be.

Romans 11:25
For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

While NT may not have any influence of Judaism today.. it does explain to us as to why
 
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ShirChadash

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We are more concerned with what is a spiritual Jew in God's eyes.
Conversion to the recognized branch of today's Judaism is not quite there where God wants them to be.
I'll let G-d be the judge of that ;) . Thankfully, I learned long before I left xianity, that no man is the "Holy Spirit" in my life -- G-d is capable and sufficient to guide His own where He wants us, and your opinion of it (personally, or collectively) doesn't count.


Well, I can't expect you to teach and clarify what you do not understand, yourself.

Romans 2 >>
New American Standard Bible
1 Therefore you have no excuse, everyone of you who passes judgment, for in that which you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2 And we know that the judgment of God rightly falls upon those who practice such things. 3 But do you suppose this, O man, when you pass judgment on those who practice such things and do the same yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you think lightly of the riches of His kindness and tolerance and patience, not knowing that the kindness of God leads you to repentance? 5 But because of your stubbornness and unrepentant heart you are storing up wrath for yourself in the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God, 6 who WILL RENDER TO EACH PERSON ACCORDING TO HIS DEEDS: 7 to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life; 8 but to those who are selfishly ambitious and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, wrath and indignation. 9 There will be tribulation and distress for every soul of man who does evil, of the Jew first and also of the Greek, 10 but glory and honor and peace to everyone who does good, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 11 For there is no partiality with God.
12 For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; 13 for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. 14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, 16 on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


17 But if you bear the name “Jew” and rely upon the Law and boast in God, 18 and know His will and approve the things that are essential, being instructed out of the Law, 19 and are confident that you yourself are a guide to the blind, a light to those who are in darkness, 20 a corrector of the foolish, a teacher of the immature, having in the Law the embodiment of knowledge and of the truth, 21 you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself? You who preach that one shall not steal, do you steal? 22 You who say that one should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23 You who boast in the Law, through your breaking the Law, do you dishonor God? 24 For “THE NAME OF GOD IS BLASPHEMED AMONG THE GENTILES BECAUSE OF YOU,” just as it is written.
25 For indeed circumcision is of value if you practice the Law; but if you are a transgressor of the Law, your circumcision has become uncircumcision. 26 So if the uncircumcised man keeps the requirements of the Law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision? 27 And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law? 28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.


The notion that "Paul" was saying that gentiles arespiritual Jews is nonsense. Paul's point is merely that circumcision of the HEART is the spiritual point of the physical circumcision, which is merely a flesh-bound SIGN of the repentant heart. In NO way is your writer saying that gentiles are spiritual Jews, and I couldn't care one whit less what you recognize or don't -- the facts between the Torah and your man's writings on this are absolutely clear -- and they make it absolutely clear what G-D SAYS, which you say is important to you.
 
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ChavaK

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We are more concerned with what is a spiritual Jew in God's eyes.

Boy, now I am really confused. Do Messianics think they are
"spiritual Jews"? What does that mean? It isn't a concept that
is found in Judaism, so you will have to explain it to us....
Conversion to the recognized branch of today's Judaism is not quite there where God wants them to be.

We both agree there.

But as far as MJs being a bridge between Jews and Christians, it will never happen.
Christians may or may not view MJs as being "Christian", but for sure Jews will
never accept MJs as either they are 1) gentile (of which there is no problem other
than the fact is they are not part of b'nai Yisrael) or 2) halachaly Jewish, in which
case we have an issue with what they believe, and as a general statement do not
accept them into the Jewish community.

While it might sound like a nice thing that MJs will be a bridge, in reality it will never
happen....
 
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ShirChadash

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Boy, now I am really confused. Do Messianics think they are
"spiritual Jews"? What does that mean? It isn't a concept that
is found in Judaism, so you will have to explain it to us....


We both agree there.

But as far as MJs being a bridge between Jews and Christians, it will never happen.
Christians may or may not view MJs as being "Christian", but for sure Jews will
never accept MJs as either they are 1) gentile (of which there is no problem other
than the fact is they are not part of b'nai Yisrael) or 2) halachaly Jewish, in which
case we have an issue with what they believe, and as a general statement do not
accept them into the Jewish community.

While it might sound like a nice thing that MJs will be a bridge, in reality it will never
happen....
QFT
 
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