Do you believe the saints gone before us can hear your prayers?

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sola fide

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The communion of saints means that we have a "common unity" with all saints past and present. No where does the Bible imply that anyone other than God can hear our prayers. If you find a scripture for that one then please, by all means, tell me; it's not there. When Paul tells us that we should intercede, he doesn't say that anyone else can hear our prayers, he just means that we should pray for other people. I think the Word of God is pretty clear on this one.
As far as prayer being more than worship, I can see that. But all prayer is still fundamentally worship. When we ask for supplication, we do it in worship, if it is not worship, then it is a vain request. When we lament, we do it in worship, just as David did in many of the Psalms. If we lament in a way that is not worship, then we are purely pouting, and not lamenting to God.

Grace to you.
 
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Reformationist

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Originally posted by Br. Max
Ref: oh your not one of the "soul sleepers" are you?? :sigh:

No.  I just am not familiar with that topic to any extent in which I'd feel comfortable discussing it.  To be honest, I don't know anything about it.  I was just asking for some Scripture so that I could study up on it.

ZooMom, were those verses in reference to my question?  If so, thank you! :)

God bless
 
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hugoguttman

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Someguy wrote this:
This question is for the Protestants. I know what i get from a Catholic. But what does everyone here who is not Catholic think on this issue?

Do you think that you can pray to Mary or to any other saint for the assistance in prayer?

Is there any Biblical evidence for either side?

My oppinion, respecting the beliefs of some people in here is:
Can I pray to Mary or other saints...? Sure I could. But I dont do that, because I preffer to take what is written in John 14:6
Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Maybe you say... Hey!!! that is for salvation... but I say it is for all and here it comes the following:
Why should I pray to Mary or any saint when I preffer to have Jesus, the Son of God as my ONE AND ONLY and sure victorious lawyer before the Father? Look at 1 John 2:1
My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have one who speaks to the Father in our defense--Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.
Could it be any difference between praying for my sins and praying for a petition? I take my dear Lawyer for both. I wont pray for my sins to Mary and for my wishes and petitions to Jesus. No.

I am not legalist for following what it is written. I used to be catholic, but I did not know what in the Bible is written. I hope not to be rude with any catholic who posted in this section. At least, what I wrote is in my Reyna Valera Bible, and sure you catholic friends have into yours too.
Now, could you give me any Biblic reference where say it is possible to pray Mary and the saints? I give my reference. Now give me yours, but considering respect.
Pax.
Hugo.
 
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hugoguttman

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ZooMom
I just want you to know, that I have a strong feeling in my heart to bless your little kid, the youngest one. Riley correct? (sitting to the left) I just feel it.
I Bless Riley. I declare him as a victorious man in his life. He will bring hapiness to his family which will be very, very proud of him. In the name of Jesus
Amen.
Pax.
Hugo.
 
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Nope, I think they are dead and can't hear it. Now the ones in the bible that says they are specifically still alive or were taken up to heaven..well yeah they can hear it. But I don't see a need to pray to them or ask them to pray for us.

Frankly, I have an advocate with the father and that is Jesus. I feel why not just go to the source.. HEE HEE!

I don't see any biblical evidence that says we need to pray to anyone but God or Jesus.

Missy
 
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No. The saints have their own gig in Heaven.

I would not insult God by thinking he was so mean that I had to ask a saint to go to him on my behalf and I would not insult myself by saying that I needed someone to go on my behalf.

The saints were sinners just like I am. The difference is (1) They proved their faith through their life. (For that they deserve our respect) and (2) they are dead.
 
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Rising_Suns

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I would not insult God by thinking he was so mean that I had to ask a saint to go to him on my behalf and I would not insult myself by saying that I needed someone to go on my behalf.

Why do people always distort praying to the saints as insulting God in some way or putting such a negative tone on Him? If an individual doesn't understand something, it doesn't necessarily make it bad.
 
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ZooMom

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Originally posted by DeputyDan
No. The saints have their own gig in Heaven.

I would not insult God by thinking he was so mean that I had to ask a saint to go to him on my behalf and I would not insult myself by saying that I needed someone to go on my behalf.

Have you read the Scriptures provided that instruct us to pray for one another? If you ask your friends and family to go to God on your behalf, does that make God mean? And are you so righteous that you require no intercession from your fellow believers, as the Scriptures say we all do? You have never asked anyone to pray for you?

The saints were sinners just like I am.

AMEN! Exactly!

The difference is (1) They proved their faith through their life. (For that they deserve our respect)

Amen again. :)


and (2) they are dead.

Wrong. Because if #1 is true, then #2 cannot be. Everlasting *life* was promised to those who had faith and persevered to the end. If you believe they are dead, then your faith is in vain. Do we hope for a grave after all? Is God faithless, that He would withhold His reward from those who have heard His call and heeded it?

Dead saints is an oxymoron.

(That must be my 'word for the day'. I think I've used it twice now. :) )
 
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hugoguttman

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Dear friends:
Wrong. Because if #1 is true, then #2 cannot be. Everlasting *life* was promised to those who had faith and persevered to the end. If you believe they are dead, then your faith is in vain. Do we hope for a grave after all? Is God faithless, that He would withhold His reward from those who have heard His call and heeded it?

Dont missunderstand the Scripture.
Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall ASLEEP, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope.
ASLEEP IS NOT AS EQUAL AS DEAD.
Does any of you have readed about Stephen? Let´s go to Acts 7:60
0Then he fell on his knees and cried out, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." When he had said this, he fell asleep.
King James Version and New King James Version says ASLEEP.
Does it make any sense to ask any sleeping people to intercede for us before the Father?
It´s correct, as priest as we are, to pray and intercede for our brothers before the Father. That`s in fact one of our task as priest of God, title given to us by Jesus Christ. Rev 1:6

Dead is for those who does not have any hope in Jesus Christ. We, that have hope on Him, when we pass away, will sleep until He comes again. Amen.
Pax.
Hugo.
 
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Blessed-one

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um.... i was thinking, encouraging one to pray for another have a purpose, it can strengthen bonds and helps one to become more God centred instead of self centred (well, that's the goal of every christian), so it doesn't necessary have to do with praying to sleeping saints, who can't really talk to us right?
 
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ZooMom

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Originally posted by hugoguttman
Dear friends:


Dont missunderstand the Scripture.

ASLEEP IS NOT AS EQUAL AS DEAD.
Does any of you have readed about Stephen? Let´s go to Acts 7:60
King James Version and New King James Version says ASLEEP.
Does it make any sense to ask any sleeping people to intercede for us before the Father?
It´s correct, as priest as we are, to pray and intercede for our brothers before the Father. That`s in fact one of our task as priest of God, title given to us by Jesus Christ. Rev 1:6

Dead is for those who does not have any hope in Jesus Christ. We, that have hope on Him, when we pass away, will sleep until He comes again. Amen.
Pax.
Hugo.
The use of the word 'sleep' does not indicate unconsciousness. The dead in Christ were said to have 'fallen asleep' so there would be no confusion as to the fact that they weren't dead. We were promised that we wouldn't die, so the best way to describe the experience of passing from this consciousness to the next was the term 'falling asleep'. They fall asleep in this world and wake in the next. There is nothing to support the idea that souls are drifting unconsciously in some limbo state until Christ's Coming. In fact, I think I posted the Scripture already that shows us the Saints in Heaven asking God how long they have to wait for God's Justice on the wicked. If they were 'asleep', how would they even know that they are waiting? How could they ask God anything if they were sleeping? Remember, away from the body...at home with the Lord. God keeps His Promise.

Peace be with you.
 
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dignitized

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DEFINITION TIME :)

TOO many people have accpeted the twisting of the word DEATH to mean an END. This is the view of secular humanism and unfortunatly has become the accepeted definition in our society. Death does not mean end! :) Death means SEPERATION. When a man dies he does not cease to be. His body is still there. If death meant END wen we die we would fade into nothingness. But we do not. Over time our bodies may decompose and be broken down into the base elements, but those atoms still exist. Death is not an ENDING. When we die our spirit becomes seperated from our flesh. Does the spirit cease? no. The spirit is eternal.

When adam and eve ate of the tree in the garden, did they END? Did God lie to them when He said they would "surely Die?" Did they END when they ate of teh tree? nope. They did not. They became SEPERATED from God by thier sin. :)
 
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hugoguttman

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Just a little bit more and you would have finished persuading me...:) but, here I come with this:
But I do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning those who have fallen asleep, lest you sorrow as others who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will BRING with Him those who sleep in Jesus.[1]
15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who are asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17
Here, Paolo is talking of both, the sleep in Jesus and the dead in Christ. They are just the same.
If those, sleeping in Jesus, get automatic pass to our Father presence... why Paolo is talking about the rise of the sleeping in Jesus? So, then, if Jesus comes tomorrow... is He going to come only for the living ones? Because the sleeping ones are already with our Father? Talking to Him and interceding for us?
Pax... Pax and so much Pax for you.
Hugo.
 
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ZooMom

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Hmm. Then who are those in Heaven asking the Lord how long they must wait? Who are the 'elders' presenting the prayers of the saints to God? And how do you reconcile that passage to 'away from the body...at home with the Lord'?

1 Thessalonians 5:10 He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him.

Are there 'sleeping' souls living with Christ?

Christ himself used the term 'sleep' to mean death of the body.

John 11:11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up."
12 His disciples replied, "Lord, if he sleeps, he will get better." 13 Jesus had been speaking of his death, but his disciples thought he meant natural sleep.
14 So then he told them plainly, "Lazarus is dead, 15 and for your sake I am glad I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him."


This is pretty neat to try to figure out. :) I was thinking of it last night. Do you believe that the Body of Christ is whole? All believers making up the same Body? Can a body function properly if it's hands or feet or arms or legs are asleep? It came to me when I got up from my keyboard and couldn't walk because my right leg and foot had gone to sleep. :D I couldn't walk, I could only stand gripping my chair until some feeling started to come back, and boy did THAT hurt! And I wondered, if the Saints are asleep what are the rest of going to feel when they wake up?! :eek:

The Peace of Christ be with you. :)
 
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spirituality

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Originally posted by Rising_Suns
Why do people always distort praying to the saints as insulting God in some way or putting such a negative tone on Him? If an individual doesn't understand something, it doesn't necessarily make it bad.

... i kind of feel the same way... i mean why would i need someone/thing/entity to talk to god for me?
 
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