Ex Nihilo Creation, the Big Bang Theory, and the First Law of Thermodynamics

AV1611VET said:

If you (or anyone) will agree that creatio ex nihilo violates the First Law of Thermodynamics, I will consider this thread to have served it purpose.

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Haha, you'll have no problems with that. The first law of thermodynamics concerns the conservation of mass and energy, by it's very definition it precludes the production of mass or energy from nothing. I fail to see the point of making a point that people have made to you countless times.

AV1611VET said:

I know you want me to answer your queries as you wrote them --- do you mind if I expect the same?

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Fair enough.

If you know any passages by heart I'd gladly hear them in a PM. Or maybe create your own topic about it? Since you love Ex Nihilo so much.

Thing is, I've yet to see that the bible talks really about Ex Nihilo for certain, but like I said before, I don't know the book inside out so I'm simply asking for clarification from someone who knows the book a little better.

If you want this thread being about the assumption that god supposidly created the universe ex nihilo than that's fine. I just question the validity of your assumption and would like to see some proof for it.
Afterall, what good is your conclusion if your assumption isn't correct to begin with..?

But alas, you've shrugged of my question twice even though I'm asking for a simple bible sentence.
But ok, your thread, your rules.


- Ectezus

AV1611VET said:

Keep in mind too, that according to Genesis 1 ex nihilo, the earth was in existence well before the First Law of Thermodynamics was instituted.

Note to Ectezus, et. al.: According to Genesis 1 ex materia, the earth was in existence well after the First Law of Thermodynamics.

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Genesis 1 (King James Version)
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

Nothing about it being Ex Nihilo according to Your post, now kindly show where in Genesis 1 it states Ex Nihilo

AV1611VET said:

Keep in mind too, that according to Genesis 1 ex nihilo, the earth was in existence well before the First Law of Thermodynamics was instituted.

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And light was there before the sun and stars were created. Plants before photosynthesis.

We'll all say those are impossible too. We gladly do as well.

AV1611VET said:

It shows that the First Law of Thermodynamics was not present when the earth and the sun and the stars and the moon were created.

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Or they were and God just circumvented them because he is omnipotent?

If fact, plants and animals were in existence before the First and Second Laws of Thermodynamics were put in place.

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Most likely the 1st and 2nd laws came into effect the first instance of creation. If the Second Law of Thermodynamics did not exist then there could be no heat conduction on the planet. In simple terms, the second law is an expression of the fact that over time differences in temperature, pressure, and density tend to even out in a physical system that is isolated from the outside world. Entropy is a measure of how much this evening-out process has progressed.
Again we see the misuse of scientific language and terms by a creationist.

This universe was quite a bit different back in Genesis 1.
I wonder if the Sun was even yellow.

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You're the one saying that God embedded age into the earth and universe.

Maybe the Sun was like a giant tomato in the sky.

All this "law was put in place" reminds me of that old creationist misconception again: that natural laws are like judical laws, instituated to prescribe certain behaviours.

But as has been said so often before: natural laws are descriptive, not prescriptive. And, even if most people are ignorant of this fact, every description humans use include by necessity the natural laws.

Something we descripe as "plant" or "animal" includes the laws of thermodynamics. If they didn´t, these things would not be what we would recognize as "plan" or "animal".

I know that this is a little difficult to understand with the concept of thermodynamics, but just consider that a statement that said: "Plants were around before mass, height, lenght and width were put in place."

AV1611VET said:

So the Big Bang is busted.

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Not if God started The Big Bang from that which He created.

Freodin said:

All this "law was put in place" reminds me of that old creationist misconception again: that natural laws are like judical laws, instituated to prescribe certain behaviours.

But as has been said so often before: natural laws are descriptive, not prescriptive. And, even if most people are ignorant of this fact, every description humans use include by necessity the natural laws.

Something we descripe as "plant" or "animal" includes the laws of thermodynamics. If they didn´t, these things would not be what we would recognize as "plan" or "animal".

I know that this is a little difficult to understand with the concept of thermodynamics, but just consider that a statement that said: "Plants were around before mass, height, lenght and width were put in place."

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This is a point creationists here do not get. When the Universe came into existance, it came into existance with certain physical laws that describe it. There is no putting the first law into place, then putting the second law in later, etc. It only works with all the laws functioning, or it doesn't work at all.

AV1611VET said:

Will entropy be in effect in Eternity Future?

(Please answer this.)

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Is Eternity Future in this same universe?

(Please answer this.)

AV1611VET said:

Will entropy be in effect in Eternity Future?

(Please answer this.)

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I'll answer if you can tell me what "Eternity Future" is. I have not heard that term before.

AV1611VET said:

Will the New Earth need those laws?

(Please answer this.)

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If it is in this universe... yes.

AV1611VET said:

That period of time starting after the last dispensation (Kingdom), when Jesus hands the universe over to His Father, and running ∞ years.

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Well, then, in such a situation, whether entropy still applies would be up to God.