A Story

Wiccan_Child · Jun 30, 2009

"Youve just arrived home. The kids, having gotten home from school a few hours earlier, are going about their usual business. You walk into the kitchen and throw your briefcase on the counter, grabbing a glass out of the cupboard. As you walk towards the fridge to get some orange juice the phone rings, diverting you.
You pick it up. You stand there in stunned silence. The voice on the other end of the line informs you that your wife has been involved in a serious car accident.
You immediately hang up and dial your neighbour. You ask them to watch the kids while you go to the hospital, telling them that youll inform the kids of the situation once you know more. Your neighbour, who youve know for years, is aghast, but assures you that theyll drop everything and come over.
The glass that you had grabbed remains empty on the counter, you grab your keys, get in your car, and drive like a madman.
On the way to the hospital your whole life flashes in front of your eyes the seventeen years of marriage, the night you first kissed her, the look on her face when you asked her to marry you, the tears that filled the corners of her eyes as you were pronounced man and wife. The hard times are forgotten, the good times surging to the forefront of your memory the birth of your children, the vacations, the laughter, those silent moments when you stared at each other in bed at night contented and at ease with yourselves.
You get to the hospital, park in a two-away zone, run into emergency, find the desk, ask where she is, and
you cant see her.
Imagine that. Because that is the reality faced by many gay and lesbian couples in that exact situation. They are not considered immediate family, even if they have been together for decades. At that desk, with the one person that means more to them than anything possibly facing death, they are stopped.
Ive read and heard a great deal about God in my life. If youre of the opinion that Gods will is represented at that desk when a gay or lesbian person is stopped, then what is there to say other than God help you."

- Source.

Supernaut · Jun 30, 2009

Wiccan_Child said:
"Youve just arrived home. The kids, having gotten home from school a few hours earlier, are going about their usual business. You walk into the kitchen and throw your briefcase on the counter, grabbing a glass out of the cupboard. As you walk towards the fridge to get some orange juice the phone rings, diverting you.
You pick it up. You stand there in stunned silence. The voice on the other end of the line informs you that your wife has been involved in a serious car accident.
You immediately hang up and dial your neighbour. You ask them to watch the kids while you go to the hospital, telling them that youll inform the kids of the situation once you know more. Your neighbour, who youve know for years, is aghast, but assures you that theyll drop everything and come over.
The glass that you had grabbed remains empty on the counter, you grab your keys, get in your car, and drive like a madman.
On the way to the hospital your whole life flashes in front of your eyes the seventeen years of marriage, the night you first kissed her, the look on her face when you asked her to marry you, the tears that filled the corners of her eyes as you were pronounced man and wife. The hard times are forgotten, the good times surging to the forefront of your memory the birth of your children, the vacations, the laughter, those silent moments when you stared at each other in bed at night contented and at ease with yourselves.
You get to the hospital, park in a two-away zone, run into emergency, find the desk, ask where she is, and
you cant see her.
Imagine that. Because that is the reality faced by many gay and lesbian couples in that exact situation. They are not considered immediate family, even if they have been together for decades. At that desk, with the one person that means more to them than anything possibly facing death, they are stopped.
Ive read and heard a great deal about God in my life. If youre of the opinion that Gods will is represented at that desk when a gay or lesbian person is stopped, then what is there to say other than God help you."

- Source.

What a wonderful example of the extreme difficulties facing the gay community. As a Christian I cannot imagine ever telling that person "NO". That would be heartbreaking! There is a lot of true compassion lacking in parts of society.

I hope a few of our fellow members read this story and can find the compassion in it and not make some snide comment.

Wiccan_Child · Jun 30, 2009

RevSJamison said:
What a wonderful example of the extreme difficulties facing the gay community. As a Christian I cannot imagine ever telling that person "NO". That would be heartbreaking! There is a lot of true compassion lacking in parts of society.

I hope a few of our fellow members read this story and can find the compassion in it and not make some snide comment.

Agreed. I thought about putting something on the end, asking for... oh, I don't know what. But then I figured it's good just as it is. When I first read it, I honestly didn't expect it to be about homosexuality (though I had an inkling towards the end

).

Supernaut · Jun 30, 2009

You presented the story quite well without going overboard on the melodrama. It is exact and makes its point very clearly. Well done!!

lawtonfogle · Jul 1, 2009

Wiccan_Child said:
"Youve just arrived home. The kids, having gotten home from school a few hours earlier, are going about their usual business. You walk into the kitchen and throw your briefcase on the counter, grabbing a glass out of the cupboard. As you walk towards the fridge to get some orange juice the phone rings, diverting you.
You pick it up. You stand there in stunned silence. The voice on the other end of the line informs you that your wife has been involved in a serious car accident.
You immediately hang up and dial your neighbour. You ask them to watch the kids while you go to the hospital, telling them that youll inform the kids of the situation once you know more. Your neighbour, who youve know for years, is aghast, but assures you that theyll drop everything and come over.
The glass that you had grabbed remains empty on the counter, you grab your keys, get in your car, and drive like a madman.
On the way to the hospital your whole life flashes in front of your eyes the seventeen years of marriage, the night you first kissed her, the look on her face when you asked her to marry you, the tears that filled the corners of her eyes as you were pronounced man and wife. The hard times are forgotten, the good times surging to the forefront of your memory the birth of your children, the vacations, the laughter, those silent moments when you stared at each other in bed at night contented and at ease with yourselves.
You get to the hospital, park in a two-away zone, run into emergency, find the desk, ask where she is, and
you cant see her.
Imagine that. Because that is the reality faced by many gay and lesbian couples in that exact situation. They are not considered immediate family, even if they have been together for decades. At that desk, with the one person that means more to them than anything possibly facing death, they are stopped.
Ive read and heard a great deal about God in my life. If youre of the opinion that Gods will is represented at that desk when a gay or lesbian person is stopped, then what is there to say other than God help you."

- Source.

What if you are her boyfriend of 17 years, but your state has no common law marriage? What the story is a bit different, and your surrogate sister is in the hospital. You are not related by blood or by law, but living together as kids for many years and staying a close a siblings once you left home has given you closer ties that many blood siblings have?

I think in this one case, it is a better argument not for gay marriage, but against needing to be immediate blood/law family to see someone in critical care?

Even when gays are able to marry, the above injustice will be continued for some, albeit a much smaller number than currently. It may be rare, but there has to be some number of women put on their death beds withing days fo the day their boyfriend planned to purpose. And if some hospitals wanted to be technical, they probably could keep out fiancees.

Supernaut · Jul 1, 2009

lawtonfogle said:
I think in this one case, it is a better argument not for gay marriage, but against needing to be immediate blood/law family to see someone in critical care?

Click to expand...

Still is fitting for gay marriage as it does happen frequently. I have a friend whose partner of 7yrs is having his appendix removed and it took the guys mother to go in and tell the hospital staff that it was perfectly for my friend to see his partner.

There is definate for reform on the admittance of non blood related family.

Jade Margery · Jul 1, 2009

Eeeeehhh... Personally, I don't like hypothetical descriptions like that. Not that it's a bad story, and I'm sure that happens a lot, but it seems that it would be more relevant if it were a person's first hand account instead of a fiction where everyone is weirdly perfect, like a 1950's TV show or something. Surely there are enough true stories of this nature that creating false ones would not be necessary? Just a thought.

LightHorseman · Jul 1, 2009

Wiccan_Child said:
"Youve just arrived home. The kids, having gotten home from school a few hours earlier, are going about their usual business. You walk into the kitchen and throw your briefcase on the counter, grabbing a glass out of the cupboard. As you walk towards the fridge to get some orange juice the phone rings, diverting you.
You pick it up. You stand there in stunned silence. The voice on the other end of the line informs you that your wife has been involved in a serious car accident.
You immediately hang up and dial your neighbour. You ask them to watch the kids while you go to the hospital, telling them that youll inform the kids of the situation once you know more. Your neighbour, who youve know for years, is aghast, but assures you that theyll drop everything and come over.
The glass that you had grabbed remains empty on the counter, you grab your keys, get in your car, and drive like a madman.
On the way to the hospital your whole life flashes in front of your eyes the seventeen years of marriage, the night you first kissed her, the look on her face when you asked her to marry you, the tears that filled the corners of her eyes as you were pronounced man and wife. The hard times are forgotten, the good times surging to the forefront of your memory the birth of your children, the vacations, the laughter, those silent moments when you stared at each other in bed at night contented and at ease with yourselves.
You get to the hospital, park in a two-away zone, run into emergency, find the desk, ask where she is, and
you cant see her.
Imagine that. Because that is the reality faced by many gay and lesbian couples in that exact situation. They are not considered immediate family, even if they have been together for decades. At that desk, with the one person that means more to them than anything possibly facing death, they are stopped.
Ive read and heard a great deal about God in my life. If youre of the opinion that Gods will is represented at that desk when a gay or lesbian person is stopped, then what is there to say other than God help you."

- Source.

Don't be silly. Everyone knows homosexuals can't have kids or get married!

Maren · Jul 1, 2009

Jade Margery said:
Eeeeehhh... Personally, I don't like hypothetical descriptions like that. Not that it's a bad story, and I'm sure that happens a lot, but it seems that it would be more relevant if it were a person's first hand account instead of a fiction where everyone is weirdly perfect, like a 1950's TV show or something. Surely there are enough true stories of this nature that creating false ones would not be necessary? Just a thought.

Actually, I recall someone posting a real story here. Unfortunately, I do not remember who it was and, even if I did, I'm not sure it would be appropriate for me to repeat the story. If I have time perhaps I'll go back and find the post, or perhaps someone else can find it.

Basically, this person had been with his partner for a number of years when the partner was diagnosed a fatal illness. If I remember correctly, the CF member was not allowed at his partner's bedside, despite having proper documentation, because his partner's parents came in and forbid his access.

Worse, after his partner died the family took the possessions that belonged to his partner as well. From what I remember, that included the house (state law where he lived would not allow a house to be in the name of two people who were not legally related). I don't remember the details of what happened to the will (I believe there was one) but believe it was somehow ruled invalid. It would be great if someone who remembers the posts (or who it was that posted the story) could link the original post.

LightHorseman · Jul 1, 2009

Maren said:
Actually, I recall someone posting a real story here. Unfortunately, I do not remember who it was and, even if I did, I'm not sure it would be appropriate for me to repeat the story. If I have time perhaps I'll go back and find the post, or perhaps someone else can find it.

Basically, this person had been with his partner for a number of years when the partner was diagnosed a fatal illness. If I remember correctly, the CF member was not allowed at his partner's bedside, despite having proper documentation, because his partner's parents came in and forbid his access.

Worse, after his partner died the family took the possessions that belonged to his partner as well. From what I remember, that included the house (state law where he lived would not allow a house to be in the name of two people who were not legally related). I don't remember the details of what happened to the will (I believe there was one) but believe it was somehow ruled invalid. It would be great if someone who remembers the posts (or who it was that posted the story) could link the original post.

How long before some one shows up to point out that obviously, had the people involved not chosen to be homosexual, they wouldn't have had this problem?

Jane_the_Bane · Jul 1, 2009

Ah, the blessings of living in Europe!
Not only do homosexual couples enjoy pretty much the same rights as heterosexuals, but when you're at the hospital, EVERYBODY is free to visit you, whether they're next-of-kin, friends, distant acquaintances or mates from work.

Wiccan_Child · Jul 1, 2009

Jade Margery said:
Eeeeehhh... Personally, I don't like hypothetical descriptions like that. Not that it's a bad story, and I'm sure that happens a lot, but it seems that it would be more relevant if it were a person's first hand account instead of a fiction where everyone is weirdly perfect, like a 1950's TV show or something. Surely there are enough true stories of this nature that creating false ones would not be necessary? Just a thought.

I think the idyllic nature of the story is to further emphasise the contrast. And to be honest, I don't think it's far-fetched at all: a loving couple who are friendly with the neighbours and have a few kids?
When my Nan had a heart attack, our neighbours were more than happy to look after us while my parents rushed to hospital. Fortunately, they were allowed to see her.

Maybe modern TV has sapped your faith in humanity?

Polycarp_fan · Jul 1, 2009

Wiccan_Child said:
"Youve just arrived home. The kids, having gotten home from school a few hours earlier, are going about their usual business. You walk into the kitchen and throw your briefcase on the counter, grabbing a glass out of the cupboard. As you walk towards the fridge to get some orange juice the phone rings, diverting you.

Wiccan_Child said:
You pick it up. You stand there in stunned silence. The voice on the other end of the line informs you that your wife has been involved in a serious car accident.
You immediately hang up and dial your neighbour. You ask them to watch the kids while you go to the hospital, telling them that youll inform the kids of the situation once you know more. Your neighbour, who youve know for years, is aghast, but assures you that theyll drop everything and come over.
The glass that you had grabbed remains empty on the counter, you grab your keys, get in your car, and drive like a madman.
On the way to the hospital your whole life flashes in front of your eyes the seventeen years of marriage, the night you first kissed her, the look on her face when you asked her to marry you, the tears that filled the corners of her eyes as you were pronounced man and wife. The hard times are forgotten, the good times surging to the forefront of your memory the birth of your children, the vacations, the laughter, those silent moments when you stared at each other in bed at night contented and at ease with yourselves.
You get to the hospital, park in a two-away zone, run into emergency, find the desk, ask where she is, and
you cant see her.
Imagine that. Because that is the reality faced by many gay and lesbian couples in that exact situation. They are not considered immediate family, even if they have been together for decades. At that desk, with the one person that means more to them than anything possibly facing death, they are stopped.
Ive read and heard a great deal about God in my life. If youre of the opinion that Gods will is represented at that desk when a gay or lesbian person is stopped, then what is there to say other than God help you."

- Source.

Why the intense passionate plea for emotionalism to guide our reasoning about this incident?

Why not just deal with reality that in this world of pitiless atoms randomly interacting with other atoms that emotions are only biological processes and allow "nature to take its course" and go on about your random processes business?

Isn't YOUR position Wiccan_Child, that there is no God to help you?

So why not pass a secular law that pals can see their freind or acquaintences when they are in the hospital.

I believe though, that the issue of Paparrazzi and the Press in general, may come into play though.

I'm totally supportive of a secular law about seeing loved ones or friends in the hospital. But wouldn't that entail carrying a list of ALL of them wherever you go?

I'm glad you posted this in the ethics and morality forum.

LittleNipper · Jul 1, 2009

Wiccan_Child said:
"Youve just arrived home. The kids, having gotten home from school a few hours earlier, are going about their usual business. You walk into the kitchen and throw your briefcase on the counter, grabbing a glass out of the cupboard. As you walk towards the fridge to get some orange juice the phone rings, diverting you.
You pick it up. You stand there in stunned silence. The voice on the other end of the line informs you that your wife has been involved in a serious car accident.
You immediately hang up and dial your neighbour. You ask them to watch the kids while you go to the hospital, telling them that youll inform the kids of the situation once you know more. Your neighbour, who youve know for years, is aghast, but assures you that theyll drop everything and come over.
The glass that you had grabbed remains empty on the counter, you grab your keys, get in your car, and drive like a madman.
On the way to the hospital your whole life flashes in front of your eyes the seventeen years of marriage, the night you first kissed her, the look on her face when you asked her to marry you, the tears that filled the corners of her eyes as you were pronounced man and wife. The hard times are forgotten, the good times surging to the forefront of your memory the birth of your children, the vacations, the laughter, those silent moments when you stared at each other in bed at night contented and at ease with yourselves.
You get to the hospital, park in a two-away zone, run into emergency, find the desk, ask where she is, and
you cant see her.
Imagine that. Because that is the reality faced by many gay and lesbian couples in that exact situation. They are not considered immediate family, even if they have been together for decades. At that desk, with the one person that means more to them than anything possibly facing death, they are stopped.
Ive read and heard a great deal about God in my life. If youre of the opinion that Gods will is represented at that desk when a gay or lesbian person is stopped, then what is there to say other than God help you."

- Source.

If they would stop a brother or a sister in such a instance, then they should stop the "lover" under such circumstances. This couple may share a life; however, they do not share children. If the immediate family has misgivings, then they obviously had misgivings from the very beginning. The same cannot be said of most husband/wife situations. They share family, friends, children (if any) and the husband is the head of the household. Which one is the head in a homosexual affair?

Too many complications and no real sense of appropriate direction. That is how I see it.

Wiccan_Child · Jul 1, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
Why the intense passionate plea for emotionalism to guide our reasoning about this incident?

Because it is the emotional distress that I (and others) object to.

Polycarp_fan said:
Why not just deal with reality that in this world of pitiless atoms randomly interacting with other atoms that emotions are only biological processes and allow "nature to take its course" and go on about your random processes business?

Because it is those same random processes that gave us the ability to empathise with the downtrodden and the mistreated. Atheists may not believe in an objective morality, but that doesn't mean we stop caring about our fellow man.

Polycarp_fan said:
Isn't YOUR position Wiccan_Child, that there is no God to help you?

No. My position is that "If there are gods, they don't seem to be doing anything to improve our lives. Thus, we must improve them ourselves".

Polycarp_fan said:
So why not pass a secular law that pals can see their freind or acquaintences when they are in the hospital.

As far as I'm aware, we have: in the UK, I don't think there's any restrictions on who can visit a patient (I may be wrong; google has turned up squat).

Polycarp_fan said:
I'm glad you posted this in the ethics and morality forum.

It's hardly one for the Gadgets & Technology forum

.

Psudopod · Jul 1, 2009

If they would stop a brother or a sister in such a instance, then they should stop the "lover" under such circumstances. This couple may share a life; however, they do not share children.

You have been told in this situation that they do share children. However, what has that got to do with anything? Is it okay to deny a partner because when they don’t have children?

If the immediate family has misgivings, then they obviously had misgivings from the very beginning. The same cannot be said of most husband/wife situations.

Of course it can. Many parents disapprove of their children’s choice in partner, for one reason or another. Maybe they are a different religion, maybe they feel they do not have a good enough job, maybe they’re the wrong race.

They share family, friends, children (if any) and the husband is the head of the household. Which one is the head in a homosexual affair?

Homosexual couples share friends, family and children just as easily. And it might surprise you, but many couples do not subscribe to the idea of a head of house-hold. It’s an equal partnership.

Wiccan_Child · Jul 1, 2009

LittleNipper said:
If they would stop a brother or a sister in such a instance, then they should stop the "lover" under such circumstances.

Agreed. It is my opinion that no family members or loved ones should be barred.

LittleNipper said:
This couple may share a life; however, they do not share children. If the immediate family has misgivings, then they obviously had misgivings from the very beginning.

Only if their misgivings were rooted in prejudice against same-sex relationships. They might approve in the beginning, but then disapprove later on (if, say, they suspect domestic abuse).

LittleNipper said:
The same cannot be said of most husband/wife situations. They share family, friends, children (if any) and the husband is the head of the household. Which one is the head in a homosexual affair?

Either, or neither. Who says there has to be a head of the household? Do you recommend that every house has a black maid as well? What about the right for a man to beat his wife? After all, it's traditional...

And I didn't think it needed to be said that same-sex couples also share family, friends, and children.
Or do you not think that adoptive parents should have parental rights?

LittleNipper said:
Too many complications and no real sense of appropriate direction. That is how I see it.

Fortunately, we're not living in the 19[sup]th[/sup] century.

LittleNipper · Jul 1, 2009

Psudopod said:
You have been told in this situation that they do share children. However, what has that got to do with anything? Is it okay to deny a partner because when they don’t have children?

Of course it can. Many parents disapprove of their children’s choice in partner, for one reason or another. Maybe they are a different religion, maybe they feel they do not have a good enough job, maybe they’re the wrong race.

Homosexual couples share friends, family and children just as easily. And it might surprise you, but many couples do not subscribe to the idea of a head of house-hold. It’s an equal partnership.

They may be sharing the children; however, the children are not the offspring of THAT relationship! Most "Christian" couples know who is the head of the CHURCH and that the husband is the head of his family. What most people do and what most people should be considering and doing is obviously not the same thing ---- to their disadvantage.

LittleNipper · Jul 1, 2009

Wiccan_Child said:
Agreed. It is my opinion that no family members or loved ones should be barred.

Only if their misgivings were rooted in prejudice against same-sex relationships. They might approve in the beginning, but then disapprove later on (if, say, they suspect domestic abuse).

Either, or neither. Who says there has to be a head of the household? Do you recommend that every house has a black maid as well? What about the right for a man to beat his wife? After all, it's traditional...

And I didn't think it needed to be said that same-sex couples also share family, friends, and children.
Or do you not think that adoptive parents should have parental rights?

Fortunately, we're not living in the 19[sup]th[/sup] century.

Are you suggesting every household needs a maid? There is no biblical right given to the husband to beat his wife, any more than there is a biblical right given to the wife to shot her husband. I don't believe homosexuals should be encouraged in any way to adopt children. Even orphans should have both a mother and a father. Only some GOD permitted event should be allowed to create any other scenario in that regard. Children are not some right society bestows...

atomweaver · Jul 1, 2009

LittleNipper said:
They may be sharing the children; however, the children are not the offspring of THAT relationship!

Insert snappy rejoinder drawing parallels to adoptive parents...

Most "Christian" couples know who is the head of the CHURCH and that the husband is the head of his family.

...Is that what your wife lets you believe...? Very generous of her to indulge you like that.

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