Gays in the Church

Supernaut · Jun 29, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
RevSJamison said:

It is just as fair as any "Jesus didn't say anything about that," justification.

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Speaking of kindergarten. It is not!

The heck it is. With gay culture comes other unacceptable forms of behaviors incompatible with Christian truth. How can you start spliiting hairs about gay culture????? Same-sex unions called Christian marriage and then Drag Queen Shows and bath houses and cruising, cannot be refused on the same grounds as you just redefined Christian culture about what a marriage is.

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But a Chruch still has the right to not promote an event like a drag show. The Church is never involved in "cruising". And a church would never endorse a "bath house".

Two wrongs don't make a right in kindergarten or The Church.

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yup yup!

There is ONLY one way you can show proof of that.

And the New Testament will not support your efforts there.

You are left with creating a new religion.

Ergo . . .

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nope nope There will never be a Church of Jamison of Homosexual Saints.
There is clearly a difference between what I see fitting and you what you see. You have more experience in the gay scene than I do. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps not.

There is either repentance of sin and foirgiveness, or their is personal opinion to drive Christian reality on this matter. If GLBT's get a congenital pass to have their sins celebrated in the Church, then how do you have any right to say that any other choice or behavior isn't driven by a congenital condition for its justification?

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Because I do not view homosexual sex in a monogamous relationship as a sin. Nor do I believe they just woke up one morning and said, "Gosh, I sure wanna be a homo when I grow up!".

When I read the teachings of Jesus and see his examples using one man and one woman, I do not see a clear sign or warning of same sex marriage. Granted he says man and woman but with everything going on in the world around, even gay marriage at the time, wouldn't he seize and opportunity to emphasize that it is "ONLY" one man and one woman?

The fact is, no one in the NT directly condones or condemns same sex marriage.

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Polycarp_fan · Jun 30, 2009

RevSJamison said:
Polycarp_fan said:

RevSJamison said:

But a Chruch still has the right to not promote an event like a drag show. The Church is never involved in "cruising". And a church would never endorse a "bath house".

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And same-gender marriage will never happen "in the Church."

nope nope There will never be a Church of Jamison of Homosexual Saints.

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Who says? We don't who WAS into homosexuality and we are more than introduced to the concept of "used to be" a homosexual, from scripture.

There is clearly a difference between what I see fitting and you what you see.

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Based on solid concrete Biblical context, you and other gay activists are at odds with the saints and The Lord. Not just me.

You have more experience in the gay scene than I do. Perhaps you're right. Perhaps not.

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I am right. It's not perhaps. That is not inappropriate for me to claim. Notice that schism follows Gays in the Church . . . hint, hint.

Because I do not view homosexual sex in a monogamous relationship as a

sin. Nor do I believe they just woke up one morning and said, "Gosh, I sure wanna be a homo when I grow up!".

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Actually, all of us have a sin nature that we literally "wake up to." Most of us don't disavowe it away with a congenital excuse.

When I read the teachings of Jesus and see his examples using one man and one woman, I do not see a clear sign or warning of same sex marriage.

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Pagans and tax collectors are a good example. As in, treat an unrepentant person as one. Now I'm sure there are IRS employees who engage in homosexuality, but it is a pagan practice that fits the context of the Biblical witness, though unrepentance is alos key. That wasn't altered in the New Testament.

Granted he says man and woman but with everything going on in the world around, even gay marriage at the time, wouldn't he seize and opportunity to emphasize that it is "ONLY" one man and one woman?

The fact is, no one in the NT directly condones or condemns same sex marriage.

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There is no such thing as same-gender marriage. Why would Jesus reference something that does not exist? In fact, if you want to use a position from silence, then same-sex marriage is even more impossible in The Church.

Is there any Psalm for gay activism to be approved, condoned or celebrated?

Ever read Pslam 51?

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KCKID · Jun 30, 2009

This might sound cliche but I ask it regardless. Is God/Jesus found in the heart, PC_F, or in the Bible?

From your perspective, PC_F, what is 'the criteria' for being a professed Christian? In real-life terms I mean, not simply one's being able to quote texts from the Bible ...? The way I see it - which is obviously incorrect because it doesn't seem to tally with how YOU see it - is that 'being a Christian' has got nothing to do with one's sexual orientation or one's marital status. Nothing! Being 'gay' or being 'straight', married or unmarried, does not make one a more effective or a less effective Christian than the other.

Also, does 'being a Christian' have ANYTHING to do with 'organized' Christianity (the Church) as such? In other words, is one only a Christian when they belong to or commit themselves to a particular Church? Is it possible to be an 'effective' Christian without a Church? In fact, where does it say in the Bible that one MUST be a church-goer in order to fit the criteria of 'Christian'?

Supernaut · Jun 30, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
RevSJamison said:

Polycarp_fan said:

RevSJamison said:

And same-gender marriage will never happen "in the Church."

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Never say never.

Who says? We don't who WAS into homosexuality and we are more than introduced to the concept of "used to be" a homosexual, from scripture.

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Well at least not with my name attached.

Based on solid concrete Biblical context, you and other gay activists are at odds with the saints and The Lord. Not just me.

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He is in our hearts and guides us all. You need more than just the Bible. We stand on compassion not emotionalism.

I am right. It's not perhaps. That is not inappropriate for me to claim. Notice that schism follows Gays in the Church . . . hint, hint.

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Yes yes.

Actually, all of us have a sin nature that we literally "wake up to." Most of us don't disavowe it away with a congenital excuse.

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But one who is born with a genetic predisposition is a different case than plain ol lust that we all deal with.

Pagans and tax collectors are a good example. As in, treat an unrepentant person as one. Now I'm sure there are IRS employees who engage in homosexuality, but it is a pagan practice that fits the context of the Biblical witness, though unrepentance is alos key. That wasn't altered in the New Testament.

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Pagans and Tax collectors are a far cry from a monogamous gay couple. That is a tired comparison/example.

There is no such thing as same-gender marriage. Why would Jesus reference something that does not exist? In fact, if you want to use a position from silence, then same-sex marriage is even more impossible in The Church.

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There are states that recognize gay marriage. There are many countries that recognize gay marriage. So why wouldn't Jesus reference something that DOES exist.

Is there any Psalm for gay activism to be approved, condoned or celebrated?

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Are there any Psalms condoning conversion therapy?

Ever read Pslam 51?

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I am aware of David and Bathsheba. How does this pertain to the discussion? He was being haunted by his guilt over having her very loving and devoted husband killed so he could have her? He was also forgiven!

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OllieFranz · Jun 30, 2009

Is there any Psalm for gay activism to be approved, condoned or celebrated?

Ever read Pslam 51?

I'm confused. What did you have in mind when you wrote these two sentences in juxtaposition?

It looks like you are saying that in Psalm 51 David is repenting of his "gay affair" with Jonathan as well as his affair with Bathsheba. But your side always claims that there were no sexual relations between them and that neither of them could have been gay. So are you breaking with that assertion and conceding that the Biblical description of their relationship does not exclude the possibility as others on your side claim?

Or did you have something else in mind and just accidentally left out the linking thought?

Supernaut · Jun 30, 2009

KCKID said:
This might sound cliche but I ask it regardless. Is God/Jesus found in the heart, PC_F, or in the Bible?

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When accepted, He sits on the throne of our hearts. After that, you are a Christian.

Also, does 'being a Christian' have ANYTHING to do with 'organized' Christianity (the Church) as such? In other words, is one only a Christian when they belong to or commit themselves to a particular Church? Is it possible to be an 'effective' Christian without a Church? In fact, where does it say in the Bible that one MUST be a church-goer in order to fit the criteria of 'Christian'?

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One never needs a Church to be Christian. No where is there a scripture that reads "you must attend Church". Though it is very benefitial for building the faith of oneself.

Lending my ideas here.

Polycarp_fan · Jun 30, 2009

KCKID said:
This might sound cliche but I ask it regardless. Is God/Jesus found in the heart, PC_F, or in the Bible?

This kind of thing is going to get you in trouble here.

Jesus "proved" His positions by referencing "what is written" and the real world around Him. I take my lessons from that.

From your perspective, PC_F, what is 'the criteria' for being a professed Christian?

What is written about that? "I" do not set orthodoxy. That authority was given to the Apostles by Christ Jesus. I just agree with it.

In real-life terms I mean, not simply one's being able to quote texts from the Bible ...?

You mean like Jesus did? His Bible had very stern things to say about same-gender sexuality. Didn't it? And the sabbath too. Jesus dealt with the sabbath . . . but, as even you say, He never said a word about homosexuality.

The way I see it - which is obviously incorrect because it doesn't seem to tally with how YOU see it - is that 'being a Christian' has got nothing to do with one's sexual orientation or one's marital status.

That is exactly correct. Jesus, even went so far to say what it took to follow Him, seperating kids from parents, husbands from wives and . . . that in heaven there is no such thing as marriage. Did He not teach that the Kingdom of God is not of this world? And yet, the teachings about marriage, by Jesus and the Disciples, are man and woman. Jesus not only presented that, but REAFFIRMED it.

Nothing! Being 'gay' or being 'straight', married or unmarried, does not make one a more effective or a less effective Christian than the other.

What? Yes it does. Not only does Jesus teach about people's behaviors in the Church being very important, he set the guidlines for discounting their effectiveness IN the Church. If they don't repent, there is a very dire outcome.

Also, does 'being a Christian' have ANYTHING to do with 'organized' Christianity (the Church) as such?

Have you EVER read the New Testament . . . ??????????????????

In other words, is one only a Christian when they belong to or commit themselves to a particular Church?

What Church did the Ethiopian eunuch belong to after his conversion and baptism? But though, he would have found one to worship and fellowship in. Sooner or later.

Is it possible to be an 'effective' Christian without a Church?

John didn't seem to think so when he was banished to an island and wrote TO the Churches all over the place. Paul was in prison and did the same thing. So your answer is no, but yes. In a way.

In fact, where does it say in the Bible that one MUST be a church-goer in order to fit the criteria of 'Christian'?

How about context?

Read Hebrews 10

Polycarp_fan · Jun 30, 2009

OllieFranz said:
I'm confused. What did you have in mind when you wrote these two sentences in juxtaposition?

Pslam 130:

Out of the depths I cry to you, O LORD; O Lord, hear my voice. Let your ears be attentive to my cry for mercy. If you, O LORD, kept a record of sins, O Lord, who could stand? But with you there is forgiveness; therefore you are feared. I wait for the LORD, my soul waits,
and in his word I put my hope. My soul waits for the Lord more than watchmen wait for the morning, more than watchmen wait for the morning. O Israel, put your hope in the LORD, for with the LORD is unfailing love and with him is full redemption.He himself will redeem Israel
from all their sins.

It looks like you are saying that in Psalm 51 David is repenting of his "gay affair" with Jonathan as well as his affair with Bathsheba.

And? What's your point?

But your side always claims that there were no sexual relations between them and that neither of them could have been gay.

Boys do all sorts of nasty things. I use the gay theology about David and Jonathan no differently than when I am accused of being a closted gay guy. The bottom line is repentance, forgiveness and moving on.

So are you breaking with that assertion and conceding that the Biblical description of their relationship does not exclude the possibility as others on your side claim?

I exclude the possiblity that you can excuse away sin and sinning because of new pop culture fads. The APA and the ACLU do not dictate Christian truth.

Or did you have something else in mind and just accidentally left out the linking thought?

Interstingly enough, you fell along quite effectively into my position about gay behavior being wrong for beleivers like every other gay activist does.

David repented and followed the Lord.

"A man after God's own heart."

mpok1519 · Jun 30, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
What does that statement mean?

not as long as you dont explain what our question means. What does your question mean? Is it insinuating I did not make myself clear enough?

No matter what?

ulimate love and omnipotent forgiveness. =)

Do you have some scripture to back up that position?

Something about love. Keep forgetting what that means to you really. theres so much of love in the Bible I keep forgetting which ones I'm supsed to appease "non"-believers with. =)

Polycarp_fan · Jun 30, 2009

mpok1519 said:
not as long as you dont explain what our question means. What does your question mean? Is it insinuating I did not make myself clear enough?

That is true. As we'll see below.

ulimate love and omnipotent forgiveness. =)

Which is refused when repentance is refused.

Something about love. Keep forgetting what that means to you really. theres so much of love in the Bible I keep forgetting which ones I'm supsed to appease "non"-believers with. =)

Even John 3:16 is accompnaied with reports of Jesus talking about warnings about false beleivers, wolves in sheeps clothing. Encouraging people to sin and celebrating sin and sinning is taught as such the antithesis of love, Jesus makes a dire warning about a millstone around the neck of the advocate of encouraging the sinner to to continue in sin.

It is the height of Christian love to preach salvation through repentance and forgiveness for sins.

Only recently has that been re-introduced as a hate crime.

Look up the life (and death) of Perpetua that history.

mpok1519 · Jun 30, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
Which is refused when repentance is refused.

which is why your opinion of what love is is wrong.=) You can spin it everyway you want to, but unconditional and omnipotent love is the opposite of what you describe above. Unconditional love requires no conditions.

Even John 3:16 is accompnaied with reports of Jesus talking about warnings about false beleivers, wolves in sheeps clothing. Encouraging people to sin and celebrating sin and sinning is taught as such the antithesis of love, Jesus makes a dire warning about a millstone around the neck of the advocate of encouraging the sinner to to continue in sin.

Good thing I dont listen to those folks; this is why gays should be forgiven, and accepted and ultimately loved for the people they are. =)

thank you for your insight. This whole time I thought you were against gays in church. sorry for the confusion.

Polycarp_fan · Jun 30, 2009

mpok1519 said:
which is why your opinion of what love is is wrong.=) You can spin it everyway you want to, but unconditional and omnipotent love is the opposite of what you describe above. Unconditional love requires no conditions.

Yeahhh, ummuhhh I don't know about you, but the following sure looks like a good example of conditions:

Matt 18:

15 "If your brother sins against you, go and show him his fault, just between the two of you. If he listens to you, you have won your brother over. 16 But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell it to The Church; and if he refuses to listen even to the church, treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

So, you are left with love, alright, but not the unconditional kind.

Good thing I dont listen to those folks; this is why gays should be forgiven, and accepted and ultimately loved for the people they are. =)

Forgiven for what? They demand that they have a congenital pass for their sexual sins.

PC_F: Encouraging people to sin and celebrating sin and sinning is taught as the antithesis of love,

Jesus makes a dire warning about a millstone around the neck of the advocate of encouraging the sinner to to continue in sin.

thank you for your insight. This whole time I thought you were against gays in church. sorry for the confusion.

I am against supporting, encouraging and celebrating sin. ANYONE'S sin.

Let's see how a couple of original Church members thought about this?

For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.

. . . these dreamers pollute their own bodies, reject authority and slander celestial beings.

These men are grumblers and faultfinders; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage.

But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires." These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.
Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear

hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

And from the other one living in Hollywood. Errr, I mean Rome:

Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creatorwho is forever praised. Amen.
Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion.

. . . they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them.

Now here's a question for you: How long do you think that part of scripture written about homosexuality and those that encourage the behavior, will be legal for Christians to say in the coming years "in The Church?"

mpok1519 · Jun 30, 2009

well if its conditional love then its not an ultimate all encompassing infinite omnipotent Godly love, really. Its just conditional love. A Parent's love is unconditional, but God's is not? lol horseradish and bologna! =)

this is why I think some people read the Bible wrong. =) keep typing bro. You're complicating such a simple thing.

OllieFranz · Jun 30, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
So, you are left with love, alright, but not the unconditional kind.

But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.(Romans 5:8)

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)

But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved; ) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: (Ephesians 2:4-6)

Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Beloved, if God so loved us, we ought also to love one another. (1 John 4:10-11)

I don't know, but it certainly sounds to me like the Bible is saying that God's love is boundless -- both in the sense that it is infinite, and in the sense that there are no limits on it. It is unconditional.

Polycarp_fan · Jun 30, 2009

OllieFranz said:
I don't know, but it certainly sounds to me like the Bible is saying that God's love is boundless -- both in the sense that it is infinite, and in the sense that there are no limits on it. It is unconditional.

Is it now?

"Unconditional?"

Matthew 10:

11"Whatever town or village you enter, search for some worthy person there and stay at his house until you leave.

12As you enter the home, give it your greeting. 13If the home is deserving, let your peace rest on it;

if it is not, let your peace return to you.

14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town.

15I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town.

16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves.

Supernaut · Jun 30, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
I am against supporting, encouraging and celebrating sin. ANYONE'S sin.

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If all you can muster up are generalized comparisons of sexual deviants and tax collectors then why do you keep at it? If two men/women are in love and fully commited/married then how is it that they have "slipped among you"? You are quoting biblical text used to go up against the likes of Joseph Smith and Jim Jones. You cannot use that against a gay monogamous couple no matter how you spin it. It doesn't make a lick of sense.

David Brider · Jul 1, 2009

Polycarp_fan said:
Yeahhh, ummuhhh I don't know about you, but the following sure looks like a good example of conditions:

treat him as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

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And remind me...how did Jesus treat pagans and tax collectors?

We're back to unconditional love.

David.

KCKID · Jul 1, 2009

KCKID said:
This might sound cliche but I ask it regardless. Is God/Jesus found in the heart, PC_F, or in the Bible?

RevSJamison said:
When accepted, He sits on the throne of our hearts. After that, you are a Christian.

That's pretty much what I thought.

KCKID said:
Also, does 'being a Christian' have ANYTHING to do with 'organized' Christianity (the Church) as such? In other words, is one only a Christian when they belong to or commit themselves to a particular Church? Is it possible to be an 'effective' Christian without a Church? In fact, where does it say in the Bible that one MUST be a church-goer in order to fit the criteria of 'Christian'?

[quote=RevSJamison;52221213]One never needs a Church to be Christian. No where is there a scripture that reads "you must attend Church".[/quote]

So ...'the church' part of this issue (the actual building and its anti-'gay' members) appears to be the ony conflict that I can see in regard to this issue. It would seem then that 'gays' can be LEGITIMATE Christians if they so choose without ever setting foot in a church ...is that correct? Instead, 'gay' Christians could fellowship in groups at their own homes.
I wonder how PC_F would respond to that scenerio?

RevSJamison said:
Though it is very benefitial for building the faith of oneself.

* Or, they could fellowship in a church where all of its members are either 'gay' themselves or otherwise have no problem with homosexuality. As you say, a church of like-minded folks is very beneficial for building one's faith. So, I wonder if - and why - this would be a continuing problem with the mainstream anti-'gay' crowd?

* I realize, of course, that such churches exist. What I don't know/understand are the reasons that mainstream anti-'gays' have for still frowning on such establishments.

Polycarp_fan · Jul 1, 2009

RevSJamison said:
Polycarp_fan said:

If all you can muster up are generalized comparisons of sexual deviants and tax collectors then why do you keep at it?

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Generalized comaprisons? How typical "Where's your evidence," after I post it time after time after time is that!!!

You are not even generalizing your celebration of gay behavior in the Church. You are just saying "I feel it's right," and that's your entire argument. And as I have PROVEN time after time after time, BY presenting scripture and history, you have no support from Christian reality to force secularism INTO the Church.

If two men/women are in love and fully commited/married then how is it that they have "slipped among you"?

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If you can't make the connection of WHY Jude wrote what he wrote, then I'll just give your Church building and organization a wide berth as I go around it, until schism and unrest does its job.

You are quoting biblical text used to go up against the likes of Joseph Smith and Jim Jones. You cannot use that against a gay monogamous couple no matter how you spin it. It doesn't make a lick of sense.

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I am using it in exactly the same way. "A different Gospel" is being presented by Gay Activists and just as with Smith and Jones and Mel White, they need to be contended against.

Homosexuality is obvioulsy nothing foreign to the Apostles, the Disciple and Jesus. YOUR argument is based only on your personal feelings. How is that any different than J. Smith? You have no Biblical leg to stand on while introducing this strange new doctrine INTO and onto The Church.

But then again, as a new religion, you have my support as an American to do as you wilteth. I have no say on that, as a Christian. Jesus didn't mention a word about opposing other religions. He just came to present His message based on the scriptures and His actions to prove His point.

Then again, I'm comfortable with the parable of the wheat and the weeds. But notice the weeds are noticed? Notice also that that is very much Jude's point:

"I felt I had to write and urge you to contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to the saints."

For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality . . .

"In a similar way,

Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire."

"Yet these men speak abusively against whatever they do not understand; and what things they do understand by instinct, like unreasoning animals—these are the very things that destroy them."

"These men are blemishes at your love feasts, eating with you without the slightest qualm—shepherds who feed only themselves."

\\\

"But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold.

They said to you, "In the last times there will be scoffers who will follow their own ungodly desires."

These are the men who divide you, who follow mere natural instincts and do not have the Spirit.

But you, dear friends, build yourselves up in your most holy faith and pray in the Holy Spirit. Keep yourselves in God's love as you wait for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to bring you to eternal life.

Be merciful to those who doubt; snatch others from the fire and save them; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy— to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through Jesus Christ our Lord, before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen."

\\\

Notice to whom Jude is pointing to for Christian reality:

"But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold."

I'm just making my points using the correct method.

Polycarp_fan · Jul 1, 2009

KCKID: So ...'the church' part of this issue (the actual building and its anti-'gay' members) appears to be the ony conflict that I can see in regard to this issue. It would seem then that 'gays' can be LEGITIMATE Christians if they so choose without ever setting foot in a church ...is that correct?

Who has a problem with that? "Gay" is nothing more than a neologism to try to mask a behavior that Christians should not engage in. Look up the term "Playa (player)" Promiscuity is not unforgiveable. But trying to celebrate and encourage promiscuity by relabeling it a pop culture fad, is not a Christian thing to do either.

Instead, 'gay' Christians could fellowship in groups at their own homes.

It would be interesting to see where that would lead? Marriage, to the Christians that wrote the New Testament, was man and woman. And since they obviously wrote "for the ages" I see no justification to present a different Gospel. To Jesus, marriage was a man and woman. He never said a word about same-gender marriage ever existing.

I wonder how PC_F would respond to that scenerio?

It won't be to encourage sin and sinning. Not for myself or anyone else.

* Or, they could fellowship in a church where all of its members are either 'gay' themselves or otherwise have no problem with homosexuality.

End of issue then. Those places exist in abundance. No need to bash Christians that do not desire to celebrate those places or even enter them. Why are you not presenting MCC gay theology to prove your position is sound?

As you say, a church of like-minded folks is very beneficial for building one's faith. So, I wonder if - and why - this would be a continuing problem with the mainstream anti-'gay' crowd?

None of us go and harrass GLBT's and their supporters in their Churches. Now, click on over to Soulforce (www.soulforce,org) and see that GLBT's and their supporters do that to us. They are busier than Westboro Baptist Church. And far bigger!!

Why KCKID, when what you have presented is already in existence? Why must Bible affirming Christians be harrassed and insulted IN THEIR OWN Churches and Christian organizations? GLBT's and their supporters are harrassing us on a daily basis. Why not be happy with what you say they should be happy with?

* I realize, of course, that such churches exist.

You do?

What I don't know/understand are the reasons that mainstream anti-'gays' have for still frowning on such establishments.

That's impossible. I have made that clear in post after post after post after post. What you do is ignore the solid reasons for rejecting Gay Activism and Gay Culture as being supported by anything in the New Testament but your "anything goes" style of "love."

Condom morality is hardly Gospel and Apostolic based.

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Veteran

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What did they aim for when they missed your heart?

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Well-Known Member

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