No Gore in '04

Hector Medina

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Clay posted:

liberals dont have a platform anymore. they dont have principles and they dont have reforms and they dont have any ideas to help this country. they have lost and they have been beaten in the presidency, the senate, the house, and the judicial branch. all they do now is attack. thats all they can do. they totally blew trent lotts comments out of proportion and spewed it everywhere. this is because they have nothing better to do. they keep spouting the same thing (hug-a-tree) when theres more pressing issues at hand (war). in the next two or three years we will see a whole lot of mud slinging, because thats all they can do. they have no more power, so they will do what they've done before-attack and raise taxes.

i praise God for the Christian man in the white house. we as Christians. democrat, independent, and republican, ought to be the very first ones to embrace this man. but christians on all sides arent. why? because they've let politics become more important than Gods will. he put that man in the white house because God knew about the terrorist attacks, about iraq, because of korea, because of the economy, and to keep taxes down. even if some Christians still feel the need to be angry at this guy, we all ought to still respect the office of presidency and rally behind our leader when the possibility of war is very near. we may disagree with war, but if we stand divided, united we will fall.


Clay,

I 110% agree with you on that man!

My perspective on the liberals is also pretty bad and is remarkably identical to yours.
We've been strongly conservative in Texas for some 20+ years now!


In Christ,

Hector
 
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Clay

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im from the now great state of new hampshire. for the past 6 years we have been in bondage under jeanne shaheen's dictatorship. good 'ol betty crocker (cause shes always baking up taxes) was finally voted out this past election!! praise the LORD!!! we now have a republican governor, state senate, and state house!
 
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Morat

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No kidding!! It's a good thing he quit all and found the Lord, huh Morat?

I sure hope you have no skeletons in your closet that could come sneaking out ~ someone may hold it against you for decades
Why would they? I don't claim my particular "family values" are the soveirgn cure to all ills. Nor do I even claim they are superior.

I certainly don't trash the opponent's party as being "anti-family values", promote my own, and claim that being an alcoholic and coke user into my late 30s was "youthful exuberance and inexperience".

It's pretty simple. People who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Let's take Rush Limbaugh as an example: He has personally trashed "draft dodgers" on his show, especially Clinton. I find that hypocrisy of the worst sort since he, himself, dodged service by means of an anal cyst.

One he apparantly didn't even know he had until he was about to be drafted.
 
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Smilin

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Originally posted by blindfaith
No kidding!!  It's a good thing he quit all and found the Lord, huh Morat?

I sure hope you have no skeletons in your closet that could come sneaking out ~ someone may hold it against you for decades.

Hey the cocaine habit was a tabloid rumor...i've NEVER tried cocaine.
 
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two feathers

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Originally posted by Clay
they totally blew trent lotts comments out of proportion.

how so?

the ignorant comment came from his mouth and his mouth only. he made a fool of himself. that's his undoing, not the liberals.

he put that man in the white house because God knew about the terrorist attacks, about iraq, because of korea, because of the economy, and to keep taxes down.

and you truly believe this?
 
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Originally posted by ocean
This is very scary to hear some people think like this. Liberals are doing much more to help the country than conservatives, IMO. All conservatives want to do is start wars and destroy the environment and kill the economy. Liberals actually want to PREVENT wars, instead of just win them.

Yeah, conservatives are pure evil. Everything they do is evil. They want to steal the old people's medicine and starve your children! They want the United States to go further and further into debt - just because! They want to start wars against people because they love bloodshed and carnage! They hate trees! They want to destroy the earth just because they like pollution and hate clean air and water. They want to walk all over poor people and give rich people more money. They hate black people and love gun violence. They want to execute homosexuals at gunpoint and bomb abortion clinics because they don't know what else to do with all the gunpowder they have. Those evil, evil conservatives.

ocean, please tell me you're more level-headed than this. There are two sides to every story, and it appears that you've only heard one.

Albert J. Gore and  Bill Clinton are also professing Christians. Now whether they fit YOUR definition of a Christian is a different story.

Yes, there are different definitions of "Christian," and the differences among the varying definitions is crucial.

There seems to be an extreme Christian bias in your post. According to you, Christians are the only people that matter, everyone else be [wash my mouth][wash my mouth][wash my mouth].

Yes, there is a Christian bias in that person's response. But his bias pales in comparison to your own.


People who think like this are the main reason I am moving to Canada.

Are you sure it's not because of the beer and hockey?

P.S. George W. Bush did not actually win the election, Gore got more votes.

Bush did win the election, which is why he sits in the Oval Office and people call him Mr. President. My advice to you is to study up on the electoral college.

 

- Bud

 
 
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Morat

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Bush did win the election, which is why he sits in the Oval Office and people call him Mr. President. My advice to you is to study up on the electoral college.
He only won in the electoral college if he won in Florida. And, based on the comprehensive tallies by the media, that's highly debatable.

Personally, I view it as a "possesion is 9/10s the law", and don't really argue about who won or lost Florida. Or the election. After all, Bush is President.

However, I thought I'd point out the little flaw in your response.
 
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Originally posted by Morat
He only won in the electoral college if he won in Florida. And, based on the comprehensive tallies by the media, that's highly debatable.

Personally, I view it as a "possesion is 9/10s the law", and don't really argue about who won or lost Florida. Or the election. After all, Bush is President.

However, I thought I'd point out the little flaw in your response.

And the recounts (post-election, of course) show that Bush did win in Florida.

When you speak of Bush's victory in Florida as "highly debatable," do you know of a recount that showed Gore ahead of Bush in Florida? How many recounts does one need, anyway?

Or are you implying that there's any validity at all in the odd "butterfly ballot argument"?

Even so, there's no flaw in my response. ocean was arguing that Bush wasn't president (legitimately) because "Gore got more votes." All I did was remind him that there's this thing called the electoral college.

- Bud

 
 
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Morat

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And the recounts (post-election, of course) show that Bush did win in Florida.

When you speak of Bush's victory in Florida as "highly debatable," do you know of a recount that showed Gore ahead of Bush in Florida? How many recounts does one need, anyway?

Or are you implying that there's any validity at all in the odd "butterfly ballot argument"?

Even so, there's no flaw in my response. ocean was arguing that Bush wasn't president (legitimately) because "Gore got more votes." All I did was remind him that there's this thing called the electoral college.
Yes. The comprehensive one ordered up by several media groups in tandem showed that Gore had quite a few more votes. Leastwise, more people got up there and tried to vote for Gore than Bush. Nor am I discussing "butterfly ballots" but simple overvotes where Gore was marked, then a second minor candidate. (Not that I think 3000 elderly Jews were attempting vote for Buchanon. Nor do I consider the scrub lists in Florida ethical, or legal. Jim Crow is quite alive in Florida.) Here
According to the study, 5,277 voters made a clean punch for Gore and a clean punch for Reform Party nominee Pat Buchanan, candidates whose political philosophies are poles apart. An additional 1,650 voters made clean punches for Bush and Buchanan. If many of the Buchanan votes were in error brought on by a badly designed ballot, a CNN analysis found that Gore could have netted thousands of additional votes as compared with Bush.

Eighteen other counties used another confusing ballot design known as the "caterpillar" or "broken" ballot, where six or seven presidential candidates are listed in one column and the names of the remaining minor party candidates appeared at the top of a second one. According to the study, more than 15,000 people who voted for either Gore or Bush also selected one candidate in the second column, apparently thinking the second column represented a new race.

Had many of these voters not marked a minor candidate in the second column, Gore would have netted thousands of additional votes as compared with Bush.

However, the double votes on both butterfly and caterpillar ballots were clearly invalid under any interpretation of the law.

The last line is rather clear. I don't argue that Bush isn't President. I will state that Gore got more votes, as it's utterly true.

The biggest irony of all, of course, is comparing the Florida election system and the "equal protection" rationale applied by the US Supreme Court in their majority decision. Under that reasoning, not only was Florida's entire election illegal and invalid, but so was every other state's. After all, if not having a uniform standard from county to county on what is a clear vote (the reason the Supremes ended it), then certainly not having the same voting machines in every county, as well as the same ballot structure, is an equal protection violation. Different machines have different error rates (punch cards have an error rate roughly 10 times higher than optical scans), and rather obviously some ballot designs caused more miscast and thrown out votes than others.

Given that people's intended voting desires aren't uniform (that is, you cannot claim that a punch card machine in county X will throw out as many votes for Candidate A as B, because simple geopolitical makeup means that counties can and do tend to clump for a party or candidate. As noted in Election 2000, where punch card machines (with their higher error rate) existed almost solely in counties that were heavily Gore, whereas almost all the optiscan machines (lower error rate) were in Bush counties).

But, I repeat, I don't claim Bush isn't the President, or that he didn't legally win. He did that when he was certified. I merely claim that it's rather clear that he didn't get more votes overall (indeed, having quite a few less), and that it's highly debatable whether he would have won had the recount been performed.

The only way to determine a clear winner in Florida is to work out how many people intended to vote for each candidate. Gore wins by ten to twenty thousand votes. However, by the number who successfully cast their votes, there's no way to tell. The difference remains well within the margin of error, a few hundred votes out of several million.
 
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