Should we give expecting something in return?

nephilimiyr · Jun 12, 2009

Jimbeaux said:
Of course I know God rewards us. But (as I have said several times) that is not why I give. Even if God stopped giving to me, I would hope that I would still love God and people enough to keep right on giving. Love, not because I receive in return for my giving, should be the motivation for all my giving. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him? (1 John 3.17) Seeing a brother in need and having pity on him because we love him should be incentive enough to give, whether or not we receive anything in return.

I like what you say here and how you say it and agree with you.

All good things come from our Father in heaven and the only thing I would like to add to this, if I may, is that expecting our Father to give to us shouldn't come from a belief that He is doing so because we have earned it ourselves, i.e. because of our faithful giving. He gives to us because of who we are in Christ and we are highly favored by him as a result of that. God loves a cheerful giver because He also is a cheerful giver and He blesses us so that we may be a blessing to others.

We should expect our heavenly Father to give to us simply because He said He would.

nephilimiyr · Jun 12, 2009

probinson said:
The ONLY way we know how to Love AND give like you're describing and like John is talking about is because God Loved us first. The only way we are able to give in the manner we give is because God so Loved that HE GAVE. He shows us how.

God is our example. If God did not Love us and give to us, we would have no example to follow. Absent God's Love and example in His giving to us, we would not know how we should give, because we would have no example to follow.

And again, it is imperative that one believes that God is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.

I also like what you have to say here Pete and like how you said it and agree.

KingZzub · Jun 12, 2009

probinson said:
Even if God stopped giving to you, you'd still give. Well doesn't that just make you the cat's pajamas.

The ONLY way we know how to Love AND give like you're describing and like John is talking about is because God Loved us first. The only way we are able to give in the manner we give is because God so Loved that HE GAVE. He shows us how.

God is our example. If God did not Love us and give to us, we would have no example to follow. Absent God's Love and example in His giving to us, we would not know how we should give, because we would have no example to follow.

And again, it is imperative that one believes that God is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.

Wonderful Prob. At the end of the day, even if God told us we would get nothing we would still give to Him because He has already given us far, far more than we could ever re-pay.

However, that is not the point. The point is the truth of the Bible: He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. (2 Cor. 9.6)

Blessings,
Benjamin

JimB · Jun 12, 2009

probinson said:
*****

And again, it is imperative that one believes that God is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him.

Imperative? Doesnt imperative mean essential?

For the record, I believe God rewards those who believe. That's a given and I have no problem with it--indeed, I am grateful for it. But that is not the issue. Arent we talking about our motivation for giving, not how essential our view of rewards is?

~Jim

You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

probinson · Jun 12, 2009

Jimbeaux said:
Imperative? Doesnt imperative mean essential?

Imperative, essential, must... they all mean the same thing.

Jimbeaux said:
For the record, I believe God rewards those who believe.

Believe? Believe what? Even the demons believe and tremble;

James 2:19 (NIV)
You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatand shudder.

Hebrews tells us that we MUST (it's imperative? essential?) believe that He exists AND (♫ ♫ conjunction junction, what's your function ♫ ♫...

) believe that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. We MUST do this to please God.

Hebrews 11:6 (NIV)
And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

Jimbeaux said:
That's a given and I have no problem with it--indeed, I am grateful for it. But that is not the issue. Arent we talking about our motivation for giving, not how essential our view of rewards is?

Our motivation for giving is incredibly important. But you're taking it too far in saying that even if God stopped giving, you'd give too. That is where pride enters in, as it is essentially saying that even without God's awesome example of how we should give, you could still do it on your own.

Our motivation in giving should be Love. There is no doubt about that, and in fact I said as much in one of my very first posts on this thread. But we must also believe that God is a rewarder when we give. In that regard, there is (or should be) an expectation in our giving. These things are not mutually exclusive.

nephilimiyr · Jun 12, 2009

Jimbeaux said:
For the record, I believe God rewards those who believe. That's a given and I have no problem with it--indeed, I am grateful for it. But that is not the issue. Arent we talking about our motivation for giving, not how essential our view of rewards is?

I understand what you're saying Jim; that though Jesus said "Give and it will be given to you" should not be our motivation for giving. We can believe those words and even expect it to happen but that isn't the reason why we should give to others.

BenAdam · Jun 12, 2009

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Closed for review.
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Maggie893 · Jun 18, 2009

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Svt4Him · Jun 18, 2009

probinson said:
According to this scripture, if we want to be pleasing to God, we must believe that He is a rewarder of those that diligently seek Him;
Hebrews 11:6 (AMP)
But without faith it is impossible to please and be satisfactory to Him. For whoever would come near to God must [necessarily] believe that God exists and that He is the rewarder of those who earnestly and diligently seek Him [out].

I think this is an important verse, and not easily dismissed. If we come to God, we must believe that He is, and we must believe that He is a 'rewarder' of those that seek Him. So should we expect something in return? Well, as you say, we must.

brinny · Jun 18, 2009

Jimbeaux said:
Should we give expecting something in return?

Jesus told us,

Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over will be put into your bosom. For with the same measure that you use, it will be measured back to you.”(Luke 6.38)

What I believe (i.e., my interpretation) is that Jesus is encouraging generosity, not greediness.

The reason I mention this is that I recently heard a prominent televangelist say that it was dumb for us to give without expecting something in return—what fool would do that? That view of giving did not set with me because the following scripture (which, incidentally, as it turns out, was just a few verses before the one above) came to mind:

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. (Luke 6.35).

Do these verses contradict each other? If not, how do you explain the difference messages between these two statements?

What do you think?

~Jim

If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts, but if he will content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. ~Francis Bacon

never. it is written that we should give and then forget about it. The 1st verse speaks of how God will indeed bless us, but THAT is not why we give.

"But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:" ~Matthew 6:3

Svt4Him · Jun 18, 2009

But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High. (Luke 6.35).

Hmmm.

charityagape · Jun 18, 2009

If we can give to God without Him giving to us, can we love Him without Him loving us? Very related things aren't they?

Floatingaxe · Jun 19, 2009

I trust God and His promises, and when He tells us that he will do certain things when we give or do for Him, I do expect Him to honour them, and he does. That doesn't mean that I do anything for Him or for anyone with the selfish motive to receive. I just know there are benefits to giving, and it is a godly person who expects those benefits in life.

GrapeGirl · Jun 19, 2009

Svt4Him said:
I think this is an important verse, and not easily dismissed. If we come to God, we must believe that He is, and we must believe that He is a 'rewarder' of those that seek Him. So should we expect something in return? Well, as you say, we must.

My issue with that is that it says that God is a rewarder of those who SEEK Him. Not that God is a rewarder of those who give.

KingZzub · Jun 19, 2009

How do you seek God then Grapegirl?

Does your walk of faith not include giving? Yes, seeking God is more than giving, but it definitely includes it.

Seek God does not mean go looking for Him - He dwells within us, He is not lost! It means to walk with God in a way in which His life inside us can flow out. That cannot be done without giving.

Blessings,
Ben

JimB · Jun 19, 2009

The point is (if I may say it again), should getting something in return for our gift be the motivation for giving? Giving a gift with strings attached, i.e. giving that expects something return, is not a gift at all; it is more of a financial venture, a crass self-seeking financial investment.

If I give you a birthday gift (don’t look for one, but if I do) and I expect you to give me a gift of equal or more value in return on my birthday, did I truly “give"? Christ gave Himself for the whole world, yet only some will return His love to Him. Most will not. Yet He continues to love. For God so loved He gave. Love, not getting something in return, should be the motivation for our giving. At least that's what the Apostle taught us ...

If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. (1 Cor. 13.3)

~Jim

Faith means trusting in advance what will only make sense in reverse.

KingZzub · Jun 19, 2009

Although I agree with you Jim that love should begin and end everything we do, Jesus was not afraid to say to people obey God and there will be a reward for it.

Even someone such as Calvinist John Piper wrote a book called Future Grace about the motivation to obey Christ should be our reward, not gratitude for what He did.

Blessings,
Benjamin

NewSong · Jun 19, 2009

I have thought about this post ever since I seen you posted it. The scriptures are only contradictory when they are taken out of context with the way Jesus was speaking. I can truly say from my own experience that anything I have given to the Lord with no agenda, God has given back in good measure. However, there are times when I have given with the expectation it would be given back and the only thing I did was end up without the amount and a big thank you from man or no thanks from man. My heart's condition was selfish motive.

probinson · Jun 19, 2009

GrapeGirl said:
My issue with that is that it says that God is a rewarder of those who SEEK Him. Not that God is a rewarder of those who give.

Ah, but as you seek God, He may well tell you to give.

Andy S. Wright · Jun 19, 2009

Svt4Him said:
I think this is an important verse, and not easily dismissed. If we come to God, we must believe that He is, and we must believe that He is a 'rewarder' of those that seek Him. So should we expect something in return? Well, as you say, we must.

I believe the defintion of "reward" is the problem. Many read "reward" as some kind of material benefit. I've come to realize that the "reward" is actually the object of your search. As you seek God you will gain more knowledge, experience and (most importantly) a deeper relationship (walk?) with Him. For the true disciple of Christ this a greater reward than any material blessing we could ever hope to get out of Him.

Should we give expecting something in return?

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