*face palm* Need some advice here...
- Thread starter cassie121
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However, it is a tool that consumers can use. Let's face it. In a lot of genres you can rarely if ever find clean music that isn't "Christian". And, if the message of the music is contradictory to your beliefs why listen to it? Especially, considering even if you don't actually buy it you are supporting the artist and therefor their message...
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LutheranHawkeye
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I wouldn't listen to Christian music on the radio because it goes against my beliefs....the belief that music should be enjoyable to listen to, and not just some poser music that only people listen to for the horrible lyrics. Non-denoms can have their own music in their churches and on the radio but when it enters into my ears in any location it makes me almost sick that people actually consider it music...they are the ones being exploited by listening to bad music just because it references Jesus every once in awhile.
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Fenstermacher
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CCM is a specially packaged product made especially for Christians.
They can go to their super mega Christian store and buy a left-handed, bi-polar single mother study bible, and buy a CD from their favorite CCM "Artist". Then they can get in their car and listen to it, or they can listen to the "Christian Radio Station" which aside from giving them VERY questionable theology will fill their ears with "uplifting" messages and help them develop "life skills".
Then on Sunday they can go to their "Fellowship Centers" and learn how to be a better person, or how to be the best them they can be, their "best them now", as it were. Then they can go home and live in their insulated little boxes, watching very little on TV except for FoxNews at which they can cluck and tsk when the depredations of the Demoncrats are described or when the terrible deeds of terrorists and pirates. Then they can turn it off and listen to their "Christian Music" and feel better.
Not a big fan of Bonhoeffer but I can't help thinking he was onto something with the whole "cheap grace" idea.
They can go to their super mega Christian store and buy a left-handed, bi-polar single mother study bible, and buy a CD from their favorite CCM "Artist". Then they can get in their car and listen to it, or they can listen to the "Christian Radio Station" which aside from giving them VERY questionable theology will fill their ears with "uplifting" messages and help them develop "life skills".
Then on Sunday they can go to their "Fellowship Centers" and learn how to be a better person, or how to be the best them they can be, their "best them now", as it were. Then they can go home and live in their insulated little boxes, watching very little on TV except for FoxNews at which they can cluck and tsk when the depredations of the Demoncrats are described or when the terrible deeds of terrorists and pirates. Then they can turn it off and listen to their "Christian Music" and feel better.
Not a big fan of Bonhoeffer but I can't help thinking he was onto something with the whole "cheap grace" idea.
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Fenstermacher
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What is needed are more artists making good art who just happen to be Christians so their faith informs what they do.
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LutheranHawkeye
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LutheranHawkeye
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I agree with Marv (I think that's who it was that wrote it) about presenting the lyrics ahead of time to the group who oppose what you'll be doing. Since it's not part of a church service and you're not doing it to make it become part of a service in the future, then I really wouldn't have a problem with it. I don't particularly care for a lot of CCM, but would rather see more Lutherans put out a good doctrinally correct message than some of the garbage I have heard in the past from other performers.
You even wrote in your OP that your group uses its gifts to glorify God so just let those who are against this know that this is what you are trying to do...not to cause an uproar.
If it does get too bad within your congregation, maybe back down this year to lessen the strife and let them know that although you're disappointed right now, you'd be happy to present to them at another time.
BTW, will the ones who are against this actually be at the performance watching??????
You even wrote in your OP that your group uses its gifts to glorify God so just let those who are against this know that this is what you are trying to do...not to cause an uproar.
If it does get too bad within your congregation, maybe back down this year to lessen the strife and let them know that although you're disappointed right now, you'd be happy to present to them at another time.
BTW, will the ones who are against this actually be at the performance watching??????
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Rap has no place in the Divine Service for several reasons. First, it is an alien style: it is out of place and destroys the continuity of the Service. Second, its style is irreverent. Third, it has an unwholesome reputation. And most importantly, there is no good reason to include it. The Divine Service already employs a particular style that has served the Church faithfully for many centuries. Changes to the Divine Service should never be undertaken lightly, and they should always have a clear benefit. For example, the Reformers made changes to the Divine Service to correct the false theology of the papists. The Lutheran churches in America eventually switched the Divine Service to English because, after all, that is the national language. Whereas there is simply no reason to include rap.
Look. It is already difficult to live like a Christian. Do we really need to make it that much harder by adopting every changing whim and fancy of the culture into our worship style?
Look. It is already difficult to live like a Christian. Do we really need to make it that much harder by adopting every changing whim and fancy of the culture into our worship style?
Not before Christ's altar you don't.Archaenfel said:
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LutheranMafia
Well-Known Member
When I was in college I saw Dave Brubeck perform in an Anglican church on a weekday evening. Even though I love Brubeck and I was an atheist at the time I found the 10-minute drum solo to be in extremely bad taste. Ironically I was the first person to comment on it when we got out, then all the other non-atheists that were with me gradually came to the opinion that it had been sacrilegious as they thought about it together.
It is a very delicate matter that defies being easily defined or delineated and probably depends a lot on the audience. Matisyahu, the rapping rabbi, preformed here at a synagogue in SoHo, but his stuff is more reggae than rap really.
It is a very delicate matter that defies being easily defined or delineated and probably depends a lot on the audience. Matisyahu, the rapping rabbi, preformed here at a synagogue in SoHo, but his stuff is more reggae than rap really.
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Spike511
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- Jun 14, 2009
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I don't see what everyone's problems are with rap. All it is is rhyme coupled with a beat. It's just stereotyping to think ALL rap is bad because some, well, half of it tends to have drug use, sexual inuendo's, or violence linked. I'm supposing since rap is bad CLEARLY Christian Metalcore HAS to be sinful...
Take a look at The Devil Wears Prada's HTML Rulez d00d:
And yet i've been cleansed with the water.
a purity no mind can grasp.
a purity so cool upon my fingertips.
the vision that i've seen: this is the action that spawns from the end.
for the longest time, i've been watching the world breathe against (spiderwebs).
what lies here are mountains composed of tombstones.
examine these beautiful faces, keep singing now. keep singing.
will we push bedlam noise to the state of blissfulness?
display her beauty to the people.
a purity no mind can grasp
Now, if you saw the video, you would be able to understand the message being conveyed, I think, I think I know what they're trying to get across.
Now take a look at Lecrae's-Fanatic, who is a Christian Rapper:
I'm a F-A-N-A-T-I-C, Fanatic
I rep Christ till I D-I-E, Fanatic
I'm not extreme, I'm redeemed with faith
To serve a God whose extremely great
I'm a Fanatic
(Verse 1)
The world's trying to tidy up, exfoliate they skin
but only Christ can come and exfoliate they sin
And they fate look grim, If they don't take him
As the high priest he is to mediate they sin
The world's got to many Gods, man we choose the one
From hebrews, he rules, he bruised his son
He moves the sun
So if we prayin and our schools call us fools
Cuz our God's too true to shun
Channels two in one
Man it looks insane
TV make a lot Christians seem dramatically strange
Though we may be looked upon as one and same
We will not turn in shame, we proclaim the name
Christ Jesus, believe us, you ain't gotta recieve us
but we gon' follow our God wherever the bible lead us
And you can call us dramatic, fanatic, emphatic
But hate while you at it, take a look at our mathematics
(Hook)
(Verse 2)
What can I do to make it simple, make it plain
Christ came, emptied himself and let out sin hang him
You couldn't blame him for any sin
While they singing many men
The crucifixion was pretty grim
But when we state the fact that God resurrects
We get funny looks from a world that doesn't get
We are not David Koresh or Krishna
Or the people on TV who glorifying their bishop
From Edwards to Piper, MacAurther to Spurgeon
From Dallas to France, From Cali to Berlin
As Christians all over who getting the word in
We ain't crazy we just understand the truth and we burdened
The world sees us as evangelical Christians
As narrow-minded fanatics with a mythical mission
Labeled extremists for sharing out faith
But thats cool, we can carry the weight of persecution
Cuz earth is losing
And if we yelling the truth
We honored to be the people that our God is using
So keep it moving
Cuz if we yelling the truth
We honored to be the people that our God is using
(Hook)
(Verse 3)
They thought Jesus was out of his mind
they laughed and mocked him
Called him a cult leader and they tried to stop him
Pharisees said Christ got his power from Satan
Hatin', on the very one that came to save 'em
Even after he rose, man the world ain't changed
They still rejecting the name, still look at us strange
Still tell us without shame that our faith's insane
and, "it don't take all that to be a Christian man"
And its hard when you tryin to reach your family and stuff
They say man, "you too spiritual, you doing to much"
So we show them the love of Christ and live in the light
So they can glorify our God when they look at our life
And we win for sharing the truth and hearts get changed
We win if we're rejected because of his name
We win if seeds get planted and watered and grow
But even if we lost, we still be Fanatical though
(Hook)
Now, tell me, if I just said this, with no music behind it, just read it aloud with no emotion or music, would you tell me that it had no place in religion? I would think not, so what's the problem with singing it and putting a beat behind it?
Didn't mean to sound rude, but what's the problem with it?
God Bless,
Eric
Take a look at The Devil Wears Prada's HTML Rulez d00d:
And yet i've been cleansed with the water.
a purity no mind can grasp.
a purity so cool upon my fingertips.
the vision that i've seen: this is the action that spawns from the end.
for the longest time, i've been watching the world breathe against (spiderwebs).
what lies here are mountains composed of tombstones.
examine these beautiful faces, keep singing now. keep singing.
will we push bedlam noise to the state of blissfulness?
display her beauty to the people.
a purity no mind can grasp
Now, if you saw the video, you would be able to understand the message being conveyed, I think, I think I know what they're trying to get across.
Now take a look at Lecrae's-Fanatic, who is a Christian Rapper:
I'm a F-A-N-A-T-I-C, Fanatic
I rep Christ till I D-I-E, Fanatic
I'm not extreme, I'm redeemed with faith
To serve a God whose extremely great
I'm a Fanatic
(Verse 1)
The world's trying to tidy up, exfoliate they skin
but only Christ can come and exfoliate they sin
And they fate look grim, If they don't take him
As the high priest he is to mediate they sin
The world's got to many Gods, man we choose the one
From hebrews, he rules, he bruised his son
He moves the sun
So if we prayin and our schools call us fools
Cuz our God's too true to shun
Channels two in one
Man it looks insane
TV make a lot Christians seem dramatically strange
Though we may be looked upon as one and same
We will not turn in shame, we proclaim the name
Christ Jesus, believe us, you ain't gotta recieve us
but we gon' follow our God wherever the bible lead us
And you can call us dramatic, fanatic, emphatic
But hate while you at it, take a look at our mathematics
(Hook)
(Verse 2)
What can I do to make it simple, make it plain
Christ came, emptied himself and let out sin hang him
You couldn't blame him for any sin
While they singing many men
The crucifixion was pretty grim
But when we state the fact that God resurrects
We get funny looks from a world that doesn't get
We are not David Koresh or Krishna
Or the people on TV who glorifying their bishop
From Edwards to Piper, MacAurther to Spurgeon
From Dallas to France, From Cali to Berlin
As Christians all over who getting the word in
We ain't crazy we just understand the truth and we burdened
The world sees us as evangelical Christians
As narrow-minded fanatics with a mythical mission
Labeled extremists for sharing out faith
But thats cool, we can carry the weight of persecution
Cuz earth is losing
And if we yelling the truth
We honored to be the people that our God is using
So keep it moving
Cuz if we yelling the truth
We honored to be the people that our God is using
(Hook)
(Verse 3)
They thought Jesus was out of his mind
they laughed and mocked him
Called him a cult leader and they tried to stop him
Pharisees said Christ got his power from Satan
Hatin', on the very one that came to save 'em
Even after he rose, man the world ain't changed
They still rejecting the name, still look at us strange
Still tell us without shame that our faith's insane
and, "it don't take all that to be a Christian man"
And its hard when you tryin to reach your family and stuff
They say man, "you too spiritual, you doing to much"
So we show them the love of Christ and live in the light
So they can glorify our God when they look at our life
And we win for sharing the truth and hearts get changed
We win if we're rejected because of his name
We win if seeds get planted and watered and grow
But even if we lost, we still be Fanatical though
(Hook)
Now, tell me, if I just said this, with no music behind it, just read it aloud with no emotion or music, would you tell me that it had no place in religion? I would think not, so what's the problem with singing it and putting a beat behind it?
Didn't mean to sound rude, but what's the problem with it?
God Bless,
Eric
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- Nov 3, 2004
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Because when something is sung publicly, no one distinguishes all the words of what is being sang. No one.
Unless of course he/she heard it before and memprized the words.
And if a person does not have a perfect hearing, all he/she distinguishes are just some of the words.
Yet, they all hear the tone of a music, or of a beat.
When something is performed, sung in public - music is a primary commuincation agent, the way performer looks, dressed, behaves is the secondary, the words are third.
Thanks,
Ed
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