Old Covenant Confusion

Are we supposed to worship on Saturday?

I believe it doesn't matter to God what day we assemble to worship him.


"20Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth."-John 4:20-24

"16Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:" -Colossians 2:16

This is always a sticky point to even the most "mature" Christians. According to Seventh Day Adventists, yes.

According to the Apostle James, and Paul, no.

Around AD 50-56, Paul and Barnabus were brought up before the First Apostolic Council in Jerusalem, presumably after Paul's teaching against circumcision in Galatia to the Gentiles (?). This is recorded in Acts 15. James who was Bishop of the church in Jerusalem, and after hearing all the evidence, James tells us, as far as the Apostles were concerned, these parts of the "Law" were the only parts that applied to Gentiles:

"And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me:..Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood." -Acts 15:14, 19-20 (KJV)

As far as the "Old Covenants" are concerned, the promises contained in them are "null and void".

Listen to what the writter of Hebrews said:

"But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away." -Heb. 8:6-13 (KJV)

God Bless

Till all are one.

I agree strongly with most of what DD just said. Since this issue touches on a previous discussion we had, let me add a couple of thoughts:

1. Covenantalists and Dispensationalists view the promises of the Old Testament just a wee bit differently. As a rule, Covenant theologians (like Dean) consider the bulk of Old Testament promises to be null and void, as he so clearly expressed. Dispensationalists, however, would argue that some of those promises will indeed be fullfilled one day during a special period of time known as the "millennium" --- a thousand year period during which Dispensationalists believe Christ will personally rule on this earth. However, the fullfillment of these promises will be limited to the people of Israel. Though I'm not sure where Dean comes down on eschatology (end times stuff), most Covenant theologians do not believe there will be a special millennium; thus they are called "Amillennialists". Dean can elaborate on this issue if he feels it necessary.

2. Even though the Old Covenant has been replaced by the superior covenant in Christ's blood [Heb. 10:9b], that doesn't mean the Old Testament isn't the Word of God anymore. It is every bit as authoritative and relevant today as it ever was. In fact, the New Testament would be meaningless if not for the Old. We simply interpret and apply the Old Testament in light of the New.

3. Christians traditionally worship on Sundays since Jesus arose from the grave on the first day of the week, and first century believers took this as their special day. But passages like Romans 14:5 make it fairly clear that, as far as God is concerned, as long as we set aside a regular time of worship -- either a single day, or perhaps every day of the week -- then we have freedom to choose as we wish. For example, some of the mine workers who have attended our church over the years find it impossible to be in town on Sundays, so we used to run a special service just for them every Wednesday morning. Wednesday was their Sunday...and it worked very well. I can think of at least three Baptists I know who think "It's Sunday or NOTHING!" But from a biblical perspective, it's not quite that tight.

~ I think one should worship every day...
~ If you only worship when you assemble for 'church' you are missing it big time.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

TimRout said:

3. Christians traditionally worship on Sundays since Jesus arose from the grave on the first day of the week, and first century believers took this as their special day. But passages like Romans 14:5 make it fairly clear that, as far as God is concerned, as long as we set aside a regular time of worship -- either a single day, or perhaps every day of the week -- then we have freedom to choose as we wish. For example, some of the mine workers who have attended our church over the years find it impossible to be in town on Sundays, so we used to run a special service just for them every Wednesday morning. Wednesday was their Sunday...and it worked very well. I can think of at least three Baptists I know who think "It's Sunday or NOTHING!" But from a biblical perspective, it's not quite that tight.

Click to expand...

I agree.

It is funny you mentioned that.

In the scriptures, you can find every month of the year, but what you cannot find, and if I'm wrong somebody please point it out to me, are the names of days.

For example, concerning the Passover, I think it says that on the fourteenth day of "Abil"(sp?) you shall keep the passover.

In the Decalogue, it says to remember the seventh day, to keep it holy. When is exactly the seventh day?

Who can tell me that when God started the creation, He started on Sunday, and finished on Friday, and rested on Saturday?

All we know for sure is that on the very first day ever recorded in human history, this happened. Who can say that that first day did not happen on a Wednesday?

Six days a week, you are allowed to work, on the seveth day you devote to worshiping God.

In fact, if you look at the Decalogue, it allows no work whatsoever on the seventh day, NONE!

Has anybody ever worked on a dairy farm? Who can tell me that milking cows is not work? Who can tell me that a cow can go one day without being milked?

If a tornado hits your neighbors house and destroys it, because it is Sunday, or Saturday, your gonna deny him your help rebuilding his house because it is a sabbath day?

"Today is the sabbath, I can't help you because I'm not to do any work on this day."

Yea, you have kept the Commandment, but you've also broken it in that you violated the rule concerning brotherly love.

"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." -Gal. 5:22-23 (KJV)

The essence of that commandment is that you set aside one day a week to worship God. Who cares if it is Monday, or Thursday, or Sunday. What is important is that you worship God.

God Bless

Till all are one.

I think a lot of unnecessary confusion arises because people equate keeping the Sabbath with going to church. The Law prohibits any sort of work on the Sabbath day. But pastors work on Sundays when they preach. Those of us who volunteer at church are also working (I volunteer to watch babies during the early service, it's enjoyable but doesn't constitute rest!). Most of us do enough activity in attending church that it is not restful in the sense that the Sabbath laws intend. So whatever day the Sabbath is kept on, we can't simply equate that with attending Saturday or Sunday worship.

Dean has explained why the precise keeping of the Law is no longer required under the New Covenant. If you want to be technical, the Sabbath is still Saturday, as it has always been. But as early as the second century, St. Justin Martyr described that Christians were gathering to expound on the Scriptures on Sundays. Sunday worship exists mostly because of tradition. There's no need to worship on a Sunday, you could just as well do it on Wednesday evening. In fact, nowhere does the Bible prescribe weekly worship (not that we shouldn't corporately worship at least once a week). I would be very careful about forming man-made doctrines about days of worship. This, I think, is where our SDA friends go wrong.

Actually corporate public worship was proscribed under the Old Testament Law daily. Sacrifices were brought at least 3 times a day every day and a double sacrifice was proscribed on sabbaths. The Sabbath was never intended as a day of special worship but was typical of Christ just as the rest of the Law was. It typified rest in Christ who is now our Sabbath. We keep the Sabbath by resting in Christ. The legal Sabbath is still on the last day of the week. The problem is that no one can keep a legal Sabbath. Certainly corporate public worship should never be neglected but it isn't set in stone that we do it on Sunday.

Sunday is the first day of the week in some countries, like the US and Japan. Sunday is the seventh day of the week in others, like at least most of Europe.