Our Lady of Fatima

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DArceri

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If something or someone doesn't lead someone closer to Christ and leads them away from Him, dismiss it.
Mary doesn't.
Oh, but Mary can take ones eye off of Christ.... As long as Mary is a co-redeemer in someone's eyes, ALL HONOR AND GLORY IS NOT GIVEN TO HIM ALONE....As a real estate appraiser, I've been into several Catholic homes where it was LITERALLY a shrine for MARY.... Every wall.... Not one picture of Jesus.

She points to Christ and asks us to repent, pray and be obedient to Him.
She actually tells you to pray and repent? Does she say to continue to pray to her since Jesus is too busy?
 
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Rebekah30

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She actually tells you to pray and repent? Does she say to continue to pray to her since Jesus is too busy?
She says to pray and repent in her appariations.

If you know that little about the messages then you shouldn't be discussing them.


You are also toeing the protestant handbook answers evidenced by your posts. If you want to discuss this continue without them.
 
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Rebekah30

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I wasn't going to dignify this with a response, but I came back in case other peeps are reading.
As long as Mary is a co-redeemer in someone's eyes, ALL HONOR AND GLORY IS NOT GIVEN TO HIM ALONE..
for you must know full well that God commands us to give honor to other people.
Honor thy mother and father rings a bell. I will list them all if you like.


Co-redemptix is not a dogma in the Church.
Even if it was, all also work to help save others, to help them be redeemed. Co means with. We are told too.
1Cor 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers.
 
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DArceri

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She says to pray and repent in her appariations.
QUOTED FROM ETWN SITE ON HER MESSAGE:

Jesus wants you to make me known and loved. He wants to establish in the world the devotion to my Immaculate Heart. ... My Immaculate Heart will be your refuge and the way leading you to God.
During the July apparition this was mentioned again. After showing them a vision of hell, and the souls condemned there, she states,
To save them God wants to establish in the world the devotion to my Immaculate Heart. She then goes on to connect both the conversion of individuals sinners and wayward nations to devotion to the Immaculate Heart.

UUGGGHHHH....In other words....FOCUS on her. The passion of Christ is not sufficient enough.

You are also toeing the protestant handbook answers evidenced by your posts. If you want to discuss this continue without them.[/quote]
LOL...Yes, that handbook would be Scripture thank you? ......BTW, You seem to be toeing the Catholic handbook answers around. Try Scripture as an handbook FOR ONCE!!!! It's not banned by the RCC anymore (not because of them by the way). If the RCC had retained there former terrifying political clout and had control of the printing press, it would sadly remain banned today. Don't you find it disturbing that the RCC only reformed itself (from within) once scripture got in the hands of its own members?
 
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DArceri

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I wasn't going to dignify this with a response, but I came back in case other peeps are reading.

for you must know full well that God commands us to give honor to other people.
Honor thy mother and father rings a bell. I will list them all if you like.
If everyone 'honors' his own father or mother like the RCC 'honors' Mary, there would be some serious pent up wrath on Judgement Day.


Co-redemptix is not a dogma in the Church.
Even if it was, all also work to help save others, to help them be redeemed. Co means with. We are told too.
1Cor 3:9 For we are God's fellow workers.[/quote]
 
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DArceri

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What is "devotion to [Mary's] Immaculate Heart"?
Basically from what I gather, and correct me if I'm wrong, since Mary's heart is pure toward her love for Jesus, you need to pray that you don't sin against all she stands for. What's blasphemous is that ALL THIS devotion focuses on the glory of her purity and attributes, not Jesus'. Doesn't God state He shares His glory with no one , that salvation comes from the LORD alone, and that we have only one mediator between man and God?... This Fatima 'tradition' all falls in line with Catholics believing she knows your heart, is omniscient, omnipotent, forgives sins, is perfectly sinless like Jesus, and finally, can act as mediator between you and God. Thus, one can go to her for the graces of salvation. Take note below, that when you sin, instead of praying directly to Jesus for forgiveness, you're advised to devote your prayers to Mary's Immaculate Heart:


Our Lady of Fatima asked that, in reparation for sins committed against her Immaculate Heart, on the first Saturday of five consecutive months the Catholic:
  1. Go to Confession (within 8 days before or after the first Saturday)
  2. Receive Holy Communion
  3. Recite five decades of the Rosary
  4. Keep me company for fifteen minutes while meditating on the fifteen mysteries of the Rosary
She promised that, whoever would ever do this, would be given at the hour of his death, the graces necessary for salvation.


.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Yes, what is the immaculate heart of Mary? I grew up in a very Catholic city where there were many shrines to Mary, both in churches and in private homes. There were paintings as well as statues of Mary with her chest ripped open to reveal a very red heart. So, what is this supposed to mean? BTW, there were also paintings and statues of Jesus displaying his very red heart, too.
 
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Sphinx777

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The Immaculate Heart of Mary is a devotional name used by Roman Catholics and some Anglo-Catholics to refer to the physical heart of Mary, the mother of Jesus as a symbol of Mary's interior life, her joys and sorrows, her virtues and hidden perfections, and, above all, her virginal love for her God, her maternal love for her Son, Jesus, and her compassionate love for all people. The consideration of Mary's interior life and the beauties of her soul, without any thought of her physical heart, does not constitute the traditional devotion; still less does it consist in the consideration of the Heart of Mary merely as a part of her virginal body. In 1855 the Mass of the Most Pure Heart formally became a part of Catholic practice. The two elements are essential to the devotion, just as, according to Roman Catholic theology, soul and body are necessary to the constitution of man.

Eastern Catholics generally do not utilize the image, devotion or theology associated with the Immaculate Heart of Mary, seeing it as a form of liturgical latinization. The Roman Catholic view is based on the Roman Catholic focus on Mariology, as exemplified by Pope John Paul II's Apostolic Letter Rosarium Virginis Mariae which builds on the total Marian devotion pioneered by Saint Louis de Montfort.

Traditionally, the heart is pierced with seven wounds or swords, in homage to the seven dolors of Mary. Consequently, seven Hail Marys are said daily in honor of the devotion. Also, roses or another type of flower may be wrapped around the heart.

maryHeart.jpg


:angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel: :angel:

 
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simonthezealot

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2 Corinthians 11

1I hope you will put up with a little of my foolishness; but you are already doing that. 2I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and
pure devotion to Christ.
 
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bbbbbbb

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Thanks Sphinx for the definition of the Immaculate Heart of Mary. The image you gave was similar to many I have seen.

It is interesting to me that the Bible places the source of one's emotions as being the bowels and not the heart. I shudder to imagine a picture of the bowels of Mary. I think I can tolerate the rather gruesome depiction of the bleeding heart, instead.
 
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prodromos

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It is interesting to me that the Bible places the source of one's emotions as being the bowels and not the heart. I shudder to imagine a picture of the bowels of Mary. I think I can tolerate the rather gruesome depiction of the bleeding heart, instead.
I recall learning of a primitive tribe who considered the heart to be the seat or cowardice and fear because it would begin to beat faster when one was afraid and preparing to run away.

John
 
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simonthezealot

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1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.
 
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polishbeast

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1 If a prophet, or one who foretells by dreams, appears among you and announces to you a miraculous sign or wonder, 2 and if the sign or wonder of which he has spoken takes place, and he says, "Let us follow other gods" (gods you have not known) "and let us worship them," 3 you must not listen to the words of that prophet or dreamer. The LORD your God is testing you to find out whether you love him with all your heart and with all your soul. 4 It is the LORD your God you must follow, and him you must revere. Keep his commands and obey him; serve him and hold fast to him.

Its a good thing that Mary points us to Jesus and tells us to pray to Him than isnt it?
 
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simonthezealot

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Its a good thing that Mary points us to Jesus and tells us to pray to Him than isnt it?
Actually i'd say the extreme adoration given Mary does more to nuetralise Jesus' lordship in ones life, and in fact waters down peoples view of Christ and leads them astray from a sincere and pure devotion to HIM.
 
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polishbeast

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Actually i'd say the extreme adoration given Mary does more to nuetralise Jesus' lordship in ones life, and in fact waters down peoples view of Christ and leads them astray from a sincere and pure devotion to HIM.

Well I would say devotion to Mary strengthens Jesus' lordship in ones life, makes Christ their main focus, and brings them to a pure and sincere devotion to Jesus.
 
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simonthezealot

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Well I would say devotion to Mary strengthens Jesus' lordship in ones life, makes Christ their main focus, and brings them to a pure and sincere devotion to Jesus.
How so more than focusing directly on Jesus the Christ?
 
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