Home: No Place for Bible Study

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Ringo84

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San Diego is getting worse than China in this case.

You don't have a clue what you're talking about. I'm getting sick of some fellow American Christians, unaware that they are the freest and most advantaged Christians in the world, whining that they're "persecuted" like American Christians in China.

You don't have a clue what real persecution is.
Ringo
 
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Belk

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San Diego is getting worse than China in this case.

Home: No place for Bible study?

These cop clowns were transpassing on private property! Christians will never stop meeting - adversary doesn't stop them. Don't these people know that there are organizations like the ADF that will take them to court?:doh:


This is why you should never post before morning coffee. ^_^
 
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Mystman

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Mind returning to this thread, where you also opened with a WND article, and

1. the article was shown to be misleading as far as I can tell
2. your OP was shown to be blatently false as far as I can tell
3. you claimed "I don't turn tail sir when I'm wrong - but I admit I'm wrong."
4. You so far haven't replied to accusations 1 and 2.

(I'm honestly willing to believe you missed it in some innocent manner by the way :))
 
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PsychMJC

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Mind returning to this thread, where you also opened with a WND article, and

1. the article was shown to be misleading as far as I can tell
2. your OP was shown to be blatently false as far as I can tell
3. you claimed "I don't turn tail sir when I'm wrong - but I admit I'm wrong."
4. You so far haven't replied to accusations 1 and 2.

(I'm honestly willing to believe you missed it in some innocent manner by the way :))


I am not.
 
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Maren

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In all probability they are being asked to comply with 'major use' codes because of the number of people involved. Issues like restricting traffic flow, noise and the safety standards of the house are checked to make sure, for example, that if they set the house on fire everyone can get out in time and the fire service and access the site.

Yes, this is what I thought when reading the article. This isn't the type of thing that the police/county show up for. I'm sure they didn't canvass the neighborhood and ask people randomly if they yell out things on Tuesday night. Rather, I imagine their have been traffic problems on Tuesdays and some neighbors have complained about the noise and this has caused the county to respond.

Makes me wonder, though. Near my house there is a car wash that seems to always leave their outside loudspeakers, which play a local Christian music station, on overnight. I'm wondering if I made a noise complaint against them for leaving the radio on the loudspeakers all night if WND would write it up as Christian persecution?
 
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PreachersWife2004

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In all probability they are being asked to comply with 'major use' codes because of the number of people involved. Issues like restricting traffic flow, noise and the safety standards of the house are checked to make sure, for example, that if they set the house on fire everyone can get out in time and the fire service and access the site.

According to the article, it's 15 people. If it was about the number of people, they wouldn't have been asking questions like "do you say amen" and whatnot.

I regularly have 15-20 people at my house once a week for bible study. I guess I better check into whether or not I need a Major Use Permit. From what I understand about them they're a pain in the butt to get and don't really include bible studies for a small amount of people. They usually are required when the activity going on affects the houses or properties around them. So, if I wanted to have a carnival in my back yard, I'd probably need a Major Use Permit for that.

Hopefully, someone a little more familiar with county law and regulations can shed some more like on MUPs.

In the meantime, I'm not sure what to think of this story. The word persecution does not come to mind, though.
 
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Maren

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According to the article, it's 15 people. If it was about the number of people, they wouldn't have been asking questions like "do you say amen" and whatnot.

I regularly have 15-20 people at my house once a week for bible study. I guess I better check into whether or not I need a Major Use Permit. From what I understand about them they're a pain in the butt to get and don't really include bible studies for a small amount of people. They usually are required when the activity going on affects the houses or properties around them. So, if I wanted to have a carnival in my back yard, I'd probably need a Major Use Permit for that.

Hopefully, someone a little more familiar with county law and regulations can shed some more like on MUPs.

In the meantime, I'm not sure what to think of this story. The word persecution does not come to mind, though.

I would think much of the issue depends on how many cars these 15 people are trying to park, how loud they get, and how close the houses are together. Fifteen extra cars (if they all are driving their own car) can really overload a residential street. Also, if this is the type of church that tends to yell their "Amens" or "Praise the Lord" when they agree with what is being said and the houses are relatively close together, I could see where 15 people could disturb others (especially if windows are open, as they could easily be in San Diego). To me, the fact that they asked about specific phrases indicate that the neighbors had complained that these are the phrases they are hearing that are too loud.

While I can understand that the pastor is looking to have these classes in a more informal setting and so has chosen to do it in his home; it seems like it would make far more sense to merely move these classes to a small room in the church rather than claim persecution or worry about a Major Use Permit.
 
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wanderingone

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In the meantime, I'm not sure what to think of this story. The word persecution does not come to mind, though.

I don't either, there's really not enough detail. Sometimes it comes down to petty complaints between neighbors and laws that are rarely enforced to the letter end up coming into play, and you know if there's some kind of ongoing scuffle between neighbors going on things can get really nasty.

If someone is complaining about the situation BECAUSE it's a Christian bible study that's kind of petty, but if the bible study group is breaking some kind of regulation then it really doesn't matter why there was a complaint.. law enforcement is stuck with the laws they have.
 
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Tenka

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According to the article, it's 15 people. If it was about the number of people, they wouldn't have been asking questions like "do you say amen" and whatnot.
The entire purpose of WND is to convince certain types of Christian that they are being persecuted and they aren't afraid to bend the truth to achieve this.
Like any WND article, it omits certain information and perspectives to prevent an honest assessment of the situation.
 
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Wyzaard

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Why is this website so anti-Semitic in comments?

If by "Turner" the website is honoring the racist screed "The Turner Diaries", this wouldn't be surprising.

As for the supposed "incident"... all it looks like is a zoning issue; there are significant differences between homes and churches where public resources are concerned.
 
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Nooj

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Seems a radio station in San Diego CA also is airing this story.

Turner Radio Network: San Diego Halts Home Bible Study; threatens fines!
Check the names on the left.
Turner refers to the Turner Diaries, a white supremacist novel. Trust me, you don't want to know anything more about it than that. I wouldn't trust that source, nor WND. It's well known for bending the truth.
 
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feral

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Normally, I do not consider WND a reliable news source, but if this is actually happening as described, it is a violation of religious freedoms. I'm suspecting the issue of contention is not religious based - maybe neighbours are complaining of the noise, or there is not adequate parking for the 15-some attendees, or something with zoning that affects the entire area, not just Christians...because religious discrimination is unfair.
 
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Maren

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Normally, I do not consider WND a reliable news source, but if this is actually happening as described, it is a violation of religious freedoms. I'm suspecting the issue of contention is not religious based - maybe neighbours are complaining of the noise, or there is not adequate parking for the 15-some attendees, or something with zoning that affects the entire area, not just Christians...because religious discrimination is unfair.

The fact that they are being told that they need a major use permit, not some type of permit for religious meetings, strongly indicates the complaint has nothing to do with religion. Instead, it sounds as if it is likely due to a combination of noise and parking/traffic flow problems.
 
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Verv

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I foudn it interesting that the truth of the source was doubted in most of the posts in this thread.

It is odd to see this... Especially as later on it got confirmed as being a true story.

There is a large 'poisoning of the well' effect on all conservative sources, it seems.
 
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Tenka

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I foudn it interesting that the truth of the source was doubted in most of the posts in this thread.

It is odd to see this... Especially as later on it got confirmed as being a true story.

There is a large 'poisoning of the well' effect on all conservative sources, it seems.
Where was it confirmed that these people had been persecuted because of their religion as the WND article claimed?
 
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Morcova

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I foudn it interesting that the truth of the source was doubted in most of the posts in this thread.

It is odd to see this... Especially as later on it got confirmed as being a true story.

There is a large 'poisoning of the well' effect on all conservative sources, it seems.

There is no poisoning of the well going on, there is alot of healthy contempt for any story that comes from the same source as stories that claim that ufos are demons and that soy makes you gay.
 
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Verv

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Where was it confirmed that these people had been persecuted because of their religion as the WND article claimed?

The WMD probably found it intriguing that the Police asked questions specifically about the gathering of the people and whether or not it was of a religious nature, which should have no relevancy in an investigation concerning whether or not the place is an area where 'large gatherings' occur.

I guess it seems that, at a minimum, the police were doing something funny here.

There is no poisoning of the well going on, there is alot of healthy contempt for any story that comes from the same source as stories that claim that ufos are demons and that soy makes you gay.

I was unaware that they had claimed either of these...

I know if I was serious about debunking a news source I would blog these sorts of terrible articles they ran -- do you have any of these articles left somewhere, or was this hyperbole?
 
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