Are We Servants Of God Or Servants Of Man?, Lets put Both on the table

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Bro.T

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People today are under the impression that as long as they attend church on a regular basis that they are fulfilling their obligation when it comes to serving God. They do not even take into consideration that the day they have elected to worship the Lord is contrary to what God commanded. And when questioned on this issue they generally response with a statement such as what=s important is that you love the Lord, because God knows what is in an individual=s heart and he will judge accordingly. Evidently individuals who share in this belief must not have read the following verse. (John 14:15) If ye love me, keep my commandments. Jesus is plainly and clearly stating that one is to keep his commandments if he loves him. If one truly loves the Lord then they will demonstrate that love by obeying the word of God. You can only serve the Lord one way and that=s according to his will and by following his commandments. Look at the following verses. (Matthew 15:8) This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
9) But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Jesus is pointing out the fact that it is not enough for an individual to just glorify God with their speech for even if they profess a love for God and in turn worship him contrary to his commandments then all their worship is in vain. An individuals worship shall be unproductive and fruitless if they are following doctrines based on the word of man verses following the commandments of God. And with that point in mind it is surprising how so much of what Christians practice today is contrary to the word of God. And if one studies the scriptures they will find that the teaching they receive today comes from the vain imaginations of man and not the bible. Just a small amount of research on an individuals part will show that the religious practices that are observed by Christians today come from the Roman Catholic Church and are not supported by the scriptures. Based on the following directives one can easily determine as to whether their works are of God or of man.

1) COMMANDMENT OF THE SABBATH

COMMANDMENT OF GOD

The seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord. The seventh day is the day the Lord blessed and sanctified.

(Genesis 2:3) And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

(Leviticus 23:3) Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the Lord in all your dwelling.

COMMANDMENT OF MEN

The Roman Catholic Church said the 1st day of the week is when God=s sabbath is to observed. This was placed into the doctrine of the church after Roman Emperor Constantine in 321AD instituted Sunday the 1st day of the week as the day of worship. In 336 A.D., the Roman Catholic Church officially changed the observance of Sabbath to Sunday for political and economic expediency. Since then, the original Sabbath gradually gave way to Sunday observance and the practice remains to this day. Note this change come some 300 years after the teaching of Jesus Christ who as one can tell from the following scripture observed the 7th day sabbath.

(Luke 4:16) And as he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up to read.

God never changed his sabbath day and if he had changed it he would have made it perfectly clear that a change had occurred just as he made it perfectly clear as to when the sabbath was. Man changed the observance of the sabbath day and incorporated the change into his teaching.
 

Bro.T

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COMMANDMENT OF GOD

God gave to man the days which sanctified as holy and instructed man to observe them.

(Leviticus 23:1) And the Lord spake unto Moses saying,

(Leviticus 23:2) Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the Lord, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.

(Leviticus 23:5) In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the Lord=s passover.

(Leviticus 23:6) And the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the Lord: seven days you must eat unleavened bread.

(Leviticus 23:8) But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

(Leviticus 23:16) Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the Lord.

(Leviticus 23:24) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing trumpets, an holy convocation.

(Leviticus 23:27) Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement; it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord.

(Leviticus 23:34) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteen day of this seventh shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the Lord.

(Leviticus 23:36) Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the Lord: on the eight day shall be an holy convocation unto you;

These are the holy days commissioned by God.

COMMANDMENT OF MEN

The Roman Catholic Church replaced God=s Holy Days with holidays. In an attempt to appeal to the masses and bring people into the church they simply took pagan rites and practices and incorporated them into the Christian experience. Regardless of the Christian ornamentation what one has with these holidays is simply pagan rites and practices in disguise. So instead of observing God=s Holy Days as instructed you have people observing holidays such as Christmas, Good Friday, Easter, Lent, Ash Wednesday, and Halloween to name a few. People justify the observance of these holidays by claiming to be observing them in the spirit of Christ. As innocent as that may appear one who adopts that philosophy has truly erred. For by disregarding the commandments of God and following the traditions of men one is operating under their own righteousness.

Following is what the scriptures say on the subject of righteousness. In Psalms David is telling you, that what is righteousness is the commandments of God.

(Psalms 119:172) My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness

Moses is telling you that your righteousness comes from obeying the commandments of God.

(Deuteronomy 6:1) Now these are the commandments, the statutes, and the judgments, which the LORD your God commanded to teach you, that ye might do them in the land whither ye go to possess it:

25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

Paul is talking about the children of Israel and about how they had a zeal for God but due to their lack of knowledge they have ignored the righteousness of God which is his commandments and have went about and established their own righteousness. In other words they disregarded God=s commandments and came up with their own.

(Romans 10:3) For they being ignorant of God=s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

Now Israel thought they were being holy and righteous, no different than what one finds in the religious community today. They felt they were serving the Lord but one should pay close attention to what the prophet Ezekiel says concerning one operating under their own righteousness. In other words one who is following commandments other than those of the Lord. That individual may be innocent in his actions but never the less there is a heavy penalty he must pay for his innocence or as Paul puts it ignorant or lack of knowledge.

(Ezekiel 33:13) When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
 
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Bro.T

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COMMANDMENT OF GOD

The Lord instructed man as to which animals he could use for consumption.

(Leviticus 11:1) And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron, saying unto them,

(Leviticus 11:2) Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, These are the beasts which ye shall eat among all the beasts that are on the earth.

While God=s dietary law was given in Leviticus God had established it back in Genesis. Look what God instructed Noah to do in regards to bringing the animals onto the ark.

(Genesis 7:2) Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female. God even shows here that clean animals were to be consumed and that is why he had Noah take them onto the ark by sevens.

COMMANDMENT OF MEN

The Roman Catholic Church first changed God=s dietary laws by saying on certain days you could not any meat clean or unclean. Their instructions were that you could only eat fish. Later Their doctrine evolved into its alright to consume all meats clean or unclean. Here they determined that God in his infinite wisdom was not wise enough to know what was good for man . So they determined that all is good.
 
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Bro.T

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PASSOVER NOT THE LORD.... SUPPER


COMMANDMENT OF GOD

The Lord established his Passover back in Exodus(12:11) also see Leviticus(23:5). It was to commemorate his bringing the children of Israel out of Egypt and because Pharaoh heart remained hard the Lord was to stricken all of the 1st born of the Egyptians. In order for the Death Angel to pass over the children of Israel they were instructed to place blood of a lamb on their door posts. Jesus himself became our Passover he was our sacrifice. (Matthew 26:18-28) Jesus is telling his disciples where to go to prepare for the Passover meal. And while they partaking in the Passover Jesus told them of the betrayal that he knew was to come. Jesus knew he was to die and as stated he became our Passover. In the Gospel of Luke it states in chapter 22 that Jesus had taken a cup and divided it among his disciples. He also took bread and gave it to them. In verse (22:19) he tells them what its for, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me. We do this to be reminded that Jesus died for us. This was Jesus=s last supper with his disciples, but it was the Passover meal they were partaking in.

COMMANDMENT OF MEN

The Roman Catholic Church took the incident and placed the emphasis on the fact that it was Jesus=s last meal and refers to it as the last supper. They totally dismissed the fact that Jesus and his disciples were sharing the Passover meal. They also refer to it as communion which they got from Paul=s writing I Corinthians(10:16) where Paul says the cup of blessing which we bless is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? All Paul is asking is, the cup of blessing is it not the sharing of the blood of Christ. Not only did they come up with their own commandment they participate in this practice at a variety times. Some conduct it once a month some even once a week. The Passover should be kept once a year at its set time.



HEAVEN WILL BE HERE ON EARTH


COMMANDMENT OF GOD


The Lord tells us throughout the bible that his kingdom will be right here on earth. This is contrary to what is taught. (Isaiah 2:2 - 4) Tells you that the mountain of the Lord=s house shall be established in the top of the mountains in Zion and nations shall flow unto it. (Zechariah 14:9 - 20) And the Lord shall be king over all the earth in that day shall be one Lord and his name one, and all who are left of the nations shall go up from year to year to worship the King the Lord of Hosts. Daniel ( 7:27) And the kingdom and the greatness of the kingdom under the whole heaven shall be given to the people of the saints of the most High, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom. Psalms (132:13) For the Lord hath chosen Zion: he hath desired it for his habitation. 14 This is my rest for ever: here will I dwell: for I have desired it.


COMMANDMENT OF MEN


As you may have quested the Roman Catholic Church gave you the concept of going off to heaven, they even threw in purgatory for good measure. (John 14:2) In my Father=s house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. This is one of the verses used to support that concept of going off to heaven. However in the very next verse he tells he will return and receive you until him. Jesus tells you in (John 8:21) whither I go, ye cannot come. Look at the Lord=s prayer Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Jesus even instructed us to pray for the coming of his kingdom. Why would he do that if he intended to take us to heaven.

Hopefully what you have just read will cause you to examine the doctrine you are following.

Remember what Jesus says in (John 10:27) My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.

Peace to all who seek truth and understanding in the name of Jesus.
 
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DavidPresently

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I say yes to the commandments of Christ in new covenant context. No to both traditions of man and legalisms that make the eternal Word of no effect in one's life.

The Spirit of Christ now dwells within every born again believer and he teaches us his commandments and now to obey him. Those who think they can keep his commandments properly in the manner pleasing to him, by the letter, without having a personal relationship with Christ, are deceived.

The Pharisees and Sadducees who rejected Jesus kept the Sabbath by the letter, along with the other commandments you mentioned. They did not love God any more than Satan does. Their outward observances were not proof of anything.

The same remains true today. No man is going to be able to boast of their keeping of the commandments by the letter, before God. But, there will be some who thought they obeyed God and find out they were deceived, having stumbled over the stumbling block of the law.

If you are a new covenant believer, you should also realize that the OT letter of types and shadows is fulfilled in the NT, with the veil taken away, so we can see clearly what it is all about. It is not about what people with an OT mindset think it is, and thus why the law is a stumbling block to the natural man.

We should promote neither legalistic extreme or lawlessness. We should promote the new covenant, with men made new creatures in Christ, and the Law of God written on their inwards parts and hearts.

Jer 31:28-34 KJVR And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD. (29) In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. (30) But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. (31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:4-13 KJVR For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: (5) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. (6) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. (7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. (12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
 
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Bro.T

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I say yes to the commandments of Christ in new covenant context. No to both traditions of man and legalisms that make the eternal Word of no effect in one's life.

The Spirit of Christ now dwells within every born again believer and he teaches us his commandments and now to obey him. Those who think they can keep his commandments properly in the manner pleasing to him, by the letter, without having a personal relationship with Christ, are deceived.

The Pharisees and Sadducees who rejected Jesus kept the Sabbath by the letter, along with the other commandments you mentioned. They did not love God any more than Satan does. Their outward observances were not proof of anything.

The same remains true today. No man is going to be able to boast of their keeping of the commandments by the letter, before God. But, there will be some who thought they obeyed God and find out they were deceived, having stumbled over the stumbling block of the law.

If you are a new covenant believer, you should also realize that the OT letter of types and shadows is fulfilled in the NT, with the veil taken away, so we can see clearly what it is all about. It is not about what people with an OT mindset think it is, and thus why the law is a stumbling block to the natural man.

We should promote neither legalistic extreme or lawlessness. We should promote the new covenant, with men made new creatures in Christ, and the Law of God written on their inwards parts and hearts.

Jer 31:28-34 KJVR And it shall come to pass, that like as I have watched over them, to pluck up, and to break down, and to throw down, and to destroy, and to afflict; so will I watch over them, to build, and to plant, saith the LORD. (29) In those days they shall say no more, The fathers have eaten a sour grape, and the children's teeth are set on edge. (30) But every one shall die for his own iniquity: every man that eateth the sour grape, his teeth shall be set on edge. (31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. (34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

Heb 8:4-13 KJVR For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: (5) Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount. (6) But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. (7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second. (8) For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah: (9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord. (10) For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: (11) And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. (12) For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more. (13) In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.


I agree with some of the things you wrote, but, When Jesus died on the cross he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This signified the end of the law of animal sacrifice, not Gods Royal law. Paul explained this in;
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law [/FONT][/FONT](what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. [/FONT][/FONT]

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. [/FONT][/FONT]In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. [/FONT][/FONT]Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation).

Romans 2:11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

2:12 For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;

2:13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified
 
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DavidPresently

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We agree on principle but may not agree concerning what obeying his commands in the new covenant looks like. I used to go strictly by the letter and wear tassles on the 4 corners of my garments, etc. We believe the Spirit led us through such to learn some things and be familiar with them. As I testified, his point, we came to find out after a few years, was not that we were being more obedient or holy through those outward acts, but that there are spiritual things such speak of that many Christians are not aware of because they don't know the OT law.

True NT holiness and obedience begins with the work of the Holy Spirit on the inside, and leads to fruit and good works on the outside. It is not about a list of rules we try to force our flesh into submission to on the outside, which is nothing more than white-washing the tomb.

The important thing to God is that transformation happens on the inside, in the spirit, which is eternal. The flesh will pass away despite obeying commandments on the outside. It is like a vapor here one minute and gone the next. But the inner man is what either has a relationship with God and enjoys such with him forever, or is destroyed in the lake of fire.

If someone is not born of the Spirit and having an intimate relationship with God in spirit, then keeping the outward form of the commandments will do them no eternal good, though such may cause them to be more blessed in this age in the flesh. Again, the religious Jews who rejected Christ are a great example of this.

Obedience is more than skin deep. People who get stuck on the outward appearance of the commandments and keeping them are stumbling over the law, and still partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, while thinking they are better than others (pride - which comes before a fall). Selah.
 
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Bro.T

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We agree on principle but may not agree concerning what obeying his commands in the new covenant looks like. I used to go strictly by the letter and wear tassles on the 4 corners of my garments, etc. We believe the Spirit led us through such to learn some things and be familiar with them. As I testified, his point, we came to find out after a few years, was not that we were being more obedient or holy through those outward acts, but that there are spiritual things such speak of that many Christians are not aware of because they don't know the OT law.

True NT holiness and obedience begins with the work of the Holy Spirit on the inside, and leads to fruit and good works on the outside. It is not about a list of rules we try to force our flesh into submission to on the outside, which is nothing more than white-washing the tomb.

The important thing to God is that transformation happens on the inside, in the spirit, which is eternal. The flesh will pass away despite obeying commandments on the outside. It is like a vapor here one minute and gone the next. But the inner man is what either has a relationship with God and enjoys such with him forever, or is destroyed in the lake of fire.

If someone is not born of the Spirit and having an intimate relationship with God in spirit, then keeping the outward form of the commandments will do them no eternal good, though such may cause them to be more blessed in this age in the flesh. Again, the religious Jews who rejected Christ are a great example of this.

Obedience is more than skin deep. People who get stuck on the outward appearance of the commandments and keeping them are stumbling over the law, and still partaking of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, while thinking they are better than others (pride - which comes before a fall). Selah.

I understand what you are saying, but I think you looking at the wrong way because we have understand whats Holy to God and whats not.

God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments).

Psalm 19:7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
19:8The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
The only laws that where nail to the cross was animal sacrifical law and the priesthood laws and Paul explain those laws in Hebrews. Paul said in
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord....So as long is sin on the table then there is also the law (ten commandmments). Take look at what Paul is saying here.....

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:21 - Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5 - For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God

This is why Jesus said in Matthew 24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And we have to realize that the fear of God is not being taught as well, because theres
a lake of Fire for those who don't get in the kingdom.

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.




 
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DavidPresently

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I understand what you are saying, but I think you looking at the wrong way because we have understand whats Holy to God and whats not.

God’s holy commandments have been around forever even before man was created. Remember that Satan was kicked out of heaven because iniquity (sin) was found in him. And what is sin? The transgression of the law (commandments).

Psalm 19:7The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
19:8The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes. 19:9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
The only laws that where nail to the cross was animal sacrifical law and the priesthood laws and Paul explain those laws in Hebrews. Paul said in
Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord....So as long is sin on the table then there is also the law (ten commandmments). Take look at what Paul is saying here.....

1 Corinthians 6:9 - Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Corinthians 6:10 - Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:21 - Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:5 - For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God

This is why Jesus said in Matthew 24:13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

And we have to realize that the fear of God is not being taught as well, because theres
a lake of Fire for those who don't get in the kingdom.

Matthew 10:28 - And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.





First, I'd like to point out that the Law of Moses is not eternal and was not existing before creation of man. At least there is no scriptural evidence of such. Your idea is therefore external to Scripture on this subject.

Second, the Law of Moses in commandments was given by patterns and types and shadows for natural Israel that pointed to the Truth. These types and shadows and patterns were not themselves the Truth. The Truth was yet to be unveiled to the world. This Truth came in the flesh and dwelt among men, and it is he who ALL of the Law and Prophets speak of and point to. Men cannot God to God nor please God in heaven by the Law of Moses, or the Son of God came as the Son of Man and died in vain on the cross.

Third, your thinking does not align with the clearly stated purpose of the letter of the law as stated in the New Testament (the portion of Scripture that carries the UNVEILED will of God, whereas the OT was the veiled version). The purpose of the letter is to point out man's sinfulness and need for redemption, which goes along with the overall purpose of the Law to point people to Christ. It is a sign pointing to something else, like a road sign. It was never intended for mankind to stop at the sign and camp out. If people do that, they will never reach the heavenly City of Zion that the sign points to.

Fourth, your thinking makes natural things have power over spiritual things. In essence, that is saying that temporal things matter more than eternal things. By such reasoning men have thought that sins (transgressions of the law) cause eternal punishment. That is impossible and is against the Law. The Law prescribes appropriate punishment based on the level of transgression. Yet, human reasoning thinks that any breaking of any commandment can cause and eternal punishment. No, temporal sinning causes temporal punishment. Otherwise we make God unjust, but his Word declares the opposite to be true. It requires a spiritual (eternal) sin to cause eternal punishment. The SIN that man commits that leads to separation from God and eternal punishment, if not washed away by the eternal (once for all, forever) blood sacrifice of the Lamb, is UNBELIEF.

The Gospel cannot get much more clear on that. Unbelief is what keeps men bound for the lake of fire, while belief in Messiah's work as the Redeemer is what turns men onto the road to everlasting life.

The redemptive work becomes pointless if once received, transgressions of the law, such as stealing, or murder, or adultery, or sabbath breaking, can again lead the once redeemed person back toward the lake of fire, an eternal punishment.

This does not mean that sinning is okay or that we go unpunished if we transgress the commandments that stand for all men of this age, regardless of old or new covenant. If we murder, we will reap consequences. But, those consequences are temporal. That is, the sin committed by the flesh of man will cause a consequence to the flesh. It does not cause eternal punishment of the soul in the lake of fire.

I'm all for obedience to commandments, out of love, and fear of the Lord (not wanting the Father to spank us as his children). But that is the thing, those breaking commandments are due spanking, not eternity in the lake of fire. Those who reject God as Father through Christ who is the only way to the Father and to be born into the family by the Holy Spirit, they are those who go to the lake of fire, because of UNBELIEF, not because they broke commandments.

This is the only Gospel found in the New Testament. Every other gospel is a false one that says any other thing. Paul dealt with this in depth because of legalistic religious Jews trying to mess the Gentiles up in their faith in Christ. The Judaisers taught that men had to obey the Law to be saved or stay saved once saved. The NT responses was unanimous among the Apostles of the Lamb and Paul. A resounding, "No! That is not the Gospel Christ gave us!" came from them. We even find the record in Acts 15 where it had become enough of a problem among Jewish and Gentile believers, that a decision and decree had to be made by the Apostles of the Lamb who learned directly from Jesus. They all agreed together that the Judaisers were wrong, and were not sent out by them, and that the Gentiles should not be bothered by them (in other words, ignore their legalistic nonsense, which is not the true Gospel).

It is good that we want to obey our Master. It is good that we want to please God. It is even good if we want to make our flesh conform to the law so we are a holy people in our outward lifestyle. It is incorrect to equate such with salvation, however, or how one is made right with or continues to be right with God. Only faith in Christ makes one right with God, not any observance of the law.

Now, once we know that, and we start to argue over how to obey our new Master, the Lord of lords and King of kings, Paul said we shouldn't. He taught that such things are a matter of each person's relationship with God in Christ, and that if a man thinks a day is special, observe it, and if he doesn't, don't worry about it. He said that there is nothing natural in creation that is in itself evil or unclean, but if a man thinks something is unclean, he should avoid it, for conscience sake. However, if one be stronger in faith and realize that the types and shadows don't really show spiritual holiness, and that no natural thing is unclean in itself, and he partakes in such, he is not condemned by God and should not be condemned by his brethren.

Paul was of course talking about ritual cleanliness of the OT system, and teaching that it really doesn't matter to God. God cannot be touched by the natural things that the law says are unclean anyway. Rather, the law concerning unclean things was more about teaching spiritual truths, albeit with a veil over them. The New Testament unveils those truths and teaches us what is really unclean - not corpses or pigs or unwashed hands. No, what comes out of the heart is what counts, that makes a man unclean or clean. A heart of unbelief is unclean while a heart of faith in God is clean, meaning acceptable to God (Heb 11:6).

Thus, God will accept any person into his heavenly Temple/presence/glory who has faith in him, believing he exists and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him (through the prerequisite of Christ, the only way to seek and find him).

This is great news for Jew and Gentile alike, as it means we can have sexual relations with our spouses and immediately following, before ritual cleansing and waiting until the next evening, we can enter into the heavenly holy place in spirit and worship in spirit and in truth. In Christ, our spirit is clean. Nothing of the flesh or natural realm can make it unclean, because the spirit does not contact such.

I hope this helps you see the difference between the types and shadows and the spiritual truth unveiled by the NT. The types and shadows are still something we should learn from and teach our children. They help us understand some spiritual things. But, we do not become legalistic or ritualistic like by the Law of Moses and thereby negate the work of Christ.
 
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Giver

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(Romans 14:1-18) “Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written: 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' " So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. “

 
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Bro.T

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First, I'd like to point out that the Law of Moses is not eternal and was not existing before creation of man. At least there is no scriptural evidence of such. Your idea is therefore external to Scripture on this subject.

Second, the Law of Moses in commandments was given by patterns and types and shadows for natural Israel that pointed to the Truth. These types and shadows and patterns were not themselves the Truth. The Truth was yet to be unveiled to the world. This Truth came in the flesh and dwelt among men, and it is he who ALL of the Law and Prophets speak of and point to. Men cannot God to God nor please God in heaven by the Law of Moses, or the Son of God came as the Son of Man and died in vain on the cross.

Third, your thinking does not align with the clearly stated purpose of the letter of the law as stated in the New Testament (the portion of Scripture that carries the UNVEILED will of God, whereas the OT was the veiled version). The purpose of the letter is to point out man's sinfulness and need for redemption, which goes along with the overall purpose of the Law to point people to Christ. It is a sign pointing to something else, like a road sign. It was never intended for mankind to stop at the sign and camp out. If people do that, they will never reach the heavenly City of Zion that the sign points to.

Fourth, your thinking makes natural things have power over spiritual things. In essence, that is saying that temporal things matter more than eternal things. By such reasoning men have thought that sins (transgressions of the law) cause eternal punishment. That is impossible and is against the Law. The Law prescribes appropriate punishment based on the level of transgression. Yet, human reasoning thinks that any breaking of any commandment can cause and eternal punishment. No, temporal sinning causes temporal punishment. Otherwise we make God unjust, but his Word declares the opposite to be true. It requires a spiritual (eternal) sin to cause eternal punishment. The SIN that man commits that leads to separation from God and eternal punishment, if not washed away by the eternal (once for all, forever) blood sacrifice of the Lamb, is UNBELIEF.

The Gospel cannot get much more clear on that. Unbelief is what keeps men bound for the lake of fire, while belief in Messiah's work as the Redeemer is what turns men onto the road to everlasting life.

The redemptive work becomes pointless if once received, transgressions of the law, such as stealing, or murder, or adultery, or sabbath breaking, can again lead the once redeemed person back toward the lake of fire, an eternal punishment.

This does not mean that sinning is okay or that we go unpunished if we transgress the commandments that stand for all men of this age, regardless of old or new covenant. If we murder, we will reap consequences. But, those consequences are temporal. That is, the sin committed by the flesh of man will cause a consequence to the flesh. It does not cause eternal punishment of the soul in the lake of fire.

I'm all for obedience to commandments, out of love, and fear of the Lord (not wanting the Father to spank us as his children). But that is the thing, those breaking commandments are due spanking, not eternity in the lake of fire. Those who reject God as Father through Christ who is the only way to the Father and to be born into the family by the Holy Spirit, they are those who go to the lake of fire, because of UNBELIEF, not because they broke commandments.

This is the only Gospel found in the New Testament. Every other gospel is a false one that says any other thing. Paul dealt with this in depth because of legalistic religious Jews trying to mess the Gentiles up in their faith in Christ. The Judaisers taught that men had to obey the Law to be saved or stay saved once saved. The NT responses was unanimous among the Apostles of the Lamb and Paul. A resounding, "No! That is not the Gospel Christ gave us!" came from them. We even find the record in Acts 15 where it had become enough of a problem among Jewish and Gentile believers, that a decision and decree had to be made by the Apostles of the Lamb who learned directly from Jesus. They all agreed together that the Judaisers were wrong, and were not sent out by them, and that the Gentiles should not be bothered by them (in other words, ignore their legalistic nonsense, which is not the true Gospel).

It is good that we want to obey our Master. It is good that we want to please God. It is even good if we want to make our flesh conform to the law so we are a holy people in our outward lifestyle. It is incorrect to equate such with salvation, however, or how one is made right with or continues to be right with God. Only faith in Christ makes one right with God, not any observance of the law.

Now, once we know that, and we start to argue over how to obey our new Master, the Lord of lords and King of kings, Paul said we shouldn't. He taught that such things are a matter of each person's relationship with God in Christ, and that if a man thinks a day is special, observe it, and if he doesn't, don't worry about it. He said that there is nothing natural in creation that is in itself evil or unclean, but if a man thinks something is unclean, he should avoid it, for conscience sake. However, if one be stronger in faith and realize that the types and shadows don't really show spiritual holiness, and that no natural thing is unclean in itself, and he partakes in such, he is not condemned by God and should not be condemned by his brethren.

Paul was of course talking about ritual cleanliness of the OT system, and teaching that it really doesn't matter to God. God cannot be touched by the natural things that the law says are unclean anyway. Rather, the law concerning unclean things was more about teaching spiritual truths, albeit with a veil over them. The New Testament unveils those truths and teaches us what is really unclean - not corpses or pigs or unwashed hands. No, what comes out of the heart is what counts, that makes a man unclean or clean. A heart of unbelief is unclean while a heart of faith in God is clean, meaning acceptable to God (Heb 11:6).

Thus, God will accept any person into his heavenly Temple/presence/glory who has faith in him, believing he exists and is a rewarder of those who diligently seek him (through the prerequisite of Christ, the only way to seek and find him).

This is great news for Jew and Gentile alike, as it means we can have sexual relations with our spouses and immediately following, before ritual cleansing and waiting until the next evening, we can enter into the heavenly holy place in spirit and worship in spirit and in truth. In Christ, our spirit is clean. Nothing of the flesh or natural realm can make it unclean, because the spirit does not contact such.

I hope this helps you see the difference between the types and shadows and the spiritual truth unveiled by the NT. The types and shadows are still something we should learn from and teach our children. They help us understand some spiritual things. But, we do not become legalistic or ritualistic like by the Law of Moses and thereby negate the work of Christ.


Paul said in 2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Now, I don't see you doing that. I'm reading some things that you post thats not a fact according to the Bible. Where I'm from we quote scripture and verses as much as we talk. The Bible speak for its self and have to except the truth.


But that is the thing, those breaking commandments are due spanking, not eternity in the lake of fire. Those who reject God as Father through Christ who is the only way to the Father and to be born into the family by the Holy Spirit, they are those who go to the lake of fire, because of UNBELIEF, not because they broke commandments.

Lets go into the future.....

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

(1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]DavidPresently when you read about the law having a shadow of good things to come, and the law that was our school master to bring us unto Christ, it was not referring to God’s holy commandments but the animal sacrifice law. Daniel the prophet foretold the doing away of this law. (Dan 9:26-27) And after threescore and two weeks shall Mes-si’-ah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Now we know that Jesus is the Mes-si’-ah, and cut off means to be killed, and Jesus didn’t die for himself, but for the sins of the people.

(v.27) “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” When Jesus died on the cross he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This signified the end of the law of animal sacrifice, not Gods Royal law.

Paul explained this in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second.
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

(v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins.

(v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you.

(v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
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[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
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Bro.T

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(Romans 14:1-18) “Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written: 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' " So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. “


I am convince that we are to be Holy just like our lord and saviour Jesus christ. If the lord said in Leviticus 11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

If the Lord kept the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, then I am convince that we are to do the same. Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. Paul the apostles and the prophets did to.

Either you following man or God, that whats it come down to.
 
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DavidPresently

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Paul said in 2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Now, I don't see you doing that. I'm reading some things that you post thats not a fact according to the Bible. Where I'm from we quote scripture and verses as much as we talk. The Bible speak for its self and have to except the truth.

Errrrr (buzzer), wrong assumption. I've not only studied out the whole matter of the law for years, I walked out the Law of Moses with my family for years. Our firstborn son's name is even Yoshiyah on his birth certificate, we kept the literal sabbath day strictly, wore tzit-tzit, and studied scriptural Hebrew language for better literal understanding of Torah.

I don't quote a lot of Scripture in responding on here in threads that are not in a theological debate section of CF for a couple of reasons.

1. My posts already tend to be long and putting in all of the quotations from Scripture I could would make them many pages long, for each post.

2. I am speaking the Word and if you can't catch it because I don't put book, chapter, and verse beside it, then you really don't know Scripture in your heart. In my posts I often quote Scripture in my sentences without noting such. Those who know Scripture well in their heart (memorized) know I just quoted or paraphrased from Scripture. Remember, chapter and verse notion in Scripture was added by men many years after the letters were written by the inspired men of God.

3. In my experience when disagreements like these arise, no amount of quoting Scripture convinces the other person they are wrong and you are right. I've never seen a strong-minded believer switch suddenly because someone quoted 10 Scripture references to prove them wrong. Instead, the other person either comes back with their own quotes proving they are right, or not, but still isn't convinced. In other words, it is pointless. The Holy Spirit changes hearts, not people slinging Scripture quotes back and forth to prove themselves right and the other wrong.

Our difference isn't because I don't know about the law as much you. It is because of a difference of perspective of the data we both have available in Scripture.

Lets go into the future.....

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.
66:24 And they shall go forth, and look upon the carcases of the men that have transgressed against me: for their worm shall not die, neither shall their fire be quenched; and they shall be an abhorring unto all flesh.

(1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Now we have just read the biblical definition of sin, the transgression (breaking) of the law (commandments.) [/FONT][/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]DavidPresently when you read about the law having a shadow of good things to come, and the law that was our school master to bring us unto Christ, it was not referring to God’s holy commandments but the animal sacrifice law. Daniel the prophet foretold the doing away of this law. (Dan 9:26-27) And after threescore and two weeks shall Mes-si’-ah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

Now we know that Jesus is the Mes-si’-ah, and cut off means to be killed, and Jesus didn’t die for himself, but for the sins of the people.

(v.27) “And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease.” When Jesus died on the cross he caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease. This signified the end of the law of animal sacrifice, not Gods Royal law.

Paul explained this in; (Heb.10:1, 9-10,18,26-27) (v.1) For the law (what law, the law of animal sacrifice?) having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
(v.9) Then said he, (Jesus) Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first that he may establish the second.
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman](v.10) By which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

When Jesus died on the cross that was the end of the first covenant, which consisted of the blood of animals and the keeping of God’s commandments. And his death also brought in the second covenant, which consist of the blood of Jesus and the keeping of God’s commandments.

(v.18) Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.

In other words, no more animals are going to die for your sins.

(v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins.

Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you.

(v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

I understand all of that, and am very familiar with what Scripture says from OT to NT on the matter of law. I am not a law abolisher or lawless one. You asssume I am because I do not condone works righteousness.

We find ourselves in a position where I fully understand what you believe is correct, and I fully understand what I believe is correct, and you only understand what you believe is correct. That is, I'm not making a onesided decision. I'm making a decision with all of the facts and a broader perspective. Your more narrow perspective can only think of myself and most Christians as abolishing the law and being lawless. You take such issues from difference of sabbath observance and the like.

The truth is, I fully believe we do not abolish the law by faith, but rather establish the law. What I tried explaining in the previous posts, that escaped you, is what that means. What does it mean to establish the law according to its real and true God-given purpose? That is where we differ.

I am not one trying to abolish commandments. I'm trying to obey my Master Yahshua (Jesus) HaMosiach as led by the sent Holy Spirit teaching me the Word. I'm very much dedicated to this, and I'm a huge lover of Scripture. However, I come to some different conclusions about what the law is for, and why it remains and is established, than you do.

Neither of us are going to be damned over what our natural understanding concludes in this regard. What will make or break us spiritual is the righteousness gained through faith in Christ, and that alone, apart from works of the law.

By the way, there was some more Scripture hidden in there, and I hope you know from where. You can look up the reference for yourself if you want, or just think I didn't mention anything from Scripture because I neither study nor know it. To help, I put the last reference to Scripture in bold.

May your understanding be blessed as you try to work out the purpose of the law for your life in Christ.
 
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DavidPresently

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I am convince that we are to be Holy just like our lord and saviour Jesus christ. If the lord said in Leviticus 11:47 To make a difference between the unclean and the clean, and between the beast that may be eaten and the beast that may not be eaten.

If the Lord kept the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week, then I am convince that we are to do the same. Leviticus 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. Paul the apostles and the prophets did to.

Either you following man or God, that whats it come down to.

I'm following God and am holy, even the righteousness of God in Christ. I will never be more holy and righteous than the day the Blood cleansed me from ALL iniquity, and the Holy Spirit birthed me as a new spiritual creature in Christ.

I enter his rest regularly.
 
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Bro.T

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I'm following God and am holy, even the righteousness of God in Christ. I will never be more holy and righteous than the day the Blood cleansed me from ALL iniquity, and the Holy Spirit birthed me as a new spiritual creature in Christ.

I enter his rest regularly.


Lets take a look at what keeping the law (ten commandments) comes down to.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Now the trangressor...Those who done evil in the sight of the lord.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

John 5:29 and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 
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Lets take a look at what keeping the law (ten commandments) comes down to.

Matthew 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Now the trangressor...Those who done evil in the sight of the lord.

Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

John 5:29 and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Here's the problem for you and everyone else, in your thinking pattern or regular Christians; we've all sinned and fallen short. You've done evil. You continue doing evil. So I guess that means you are going to the lake of fire, Tanzel. Sorry to give you the bad news, but that is what your belief system says. By your own belief you are condemning yourself and giving the Accuser of the brethren the right to condemn you.

So, I pray you'll wake up and overcome that, and realize there is only one Way to the Father, and it is not keeping commandments. BTW, in the last verse you quoted, Rev 22:14, the "his commandments," are those instituted as new commandments by Yahshua HaMashiach. He is the Tree of Life. We have to accept HIS WAY of salvation to partake of HIM the Tree of Life.

This is why you are doomed, and so are we all, if your idea of legal observance of the law is truly the Way, Truth, and Life you think it is.

Rom 2:11-13 MKJV For there is no respect of faces with God. (12) For as many as sinned without Law will also perish without Law. And as many as have sinned within Law shall be judged through Law. (13) For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Rom 3:22-26 AMP Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction, (23) Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives. (24) [All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus, (25) Whom God put forward [before the eyes of all] as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood [the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received] through faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment. (26) It was to demonstrate and prove at the present time (in the now season) that He Himself is righteous and that He justifies and accepts as righteous him who has [true] faith in Jesus.

1Jn 1:8-10 AMP If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth [which the Gospel presents] is not in us [does not dwell in our hearts]. (9) If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]. (10) If we say (claim) we have not sinned, we contradict His Word and make Him out to be false and a liar, and His Word is not in us [the divine message of the Gospel is not in our hearts].

Jas 2:10 AMP For whosoever keeps the Law [as a] whole but stumbles and offends in one [single instance] has become guilty of [breaking] all of it.

Again, the purpose of the law still exists and it is not abolished. We uphold the law by our faith. But, we must recognize the proper purpose the law has in a believer's life. We can see if we are using the law lawfully or not by this simple question. Do we side with the Accuser of the brethren, or do we side with the Advocate? Which way of thinking is our way of thinking? If it is like the Accuser's, we are on his side. If our thinking is like the Advocate's, we are on his side. It is very important which side we are on!
 
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Here's the problem for you and everyone else, in your thinking pattern or regular Christians; we've all sinned and fallen short. You've done evil. You continue doing evil. So I guess that means you are going to the lake of fire, Tanzel. Sorry to give you the bad news, but that is what your belief system says. By your own belief you are condemning yourself and giving the Accuser of the brethren the right to condemn you.

So, I pray you'll wake up and overcome that, and realize there is only one Way to the Father, and it is not keeping commandments. BTW, in the last verse you quoted, Rev 22:14, the "his commandments," are those instituted as new commandments by Yahshua HaMashiach. He is the Tree of Life. We have to accept HIS WAY of salvation to partake of HIM the Tree of Life.

This is why you are doomed, and so are we all, if your idea of legal observance of the law is truly the Way, Truth, and Life you think it is.

Rom 2:11-13 MKJV For there is no respect of faces with God. (12) For as many as sinned without Law will also perish without Law. And as many as have sinned within Law shall be judged through Law. (13) For it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Rom 3:22-26 AMP Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction, (23) Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives. (24) [All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus, (25) Whom God put forward [before the eyes of all] as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood [the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received] through faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment. (26) It was to demonstrate and prove at the present time (in the now season) that He Himself is righteous and that He justifies and accepts as righteous him who has [true] faith in Jesus.

1Jn 1:8-10 AMP If we say we have no sin [refusing to admit that we are sinners], we delude and lead ourselves astray, and the Truth [which the Gospel presents] is not in us [does not dwell in our hearts]. (9) If we [freely] admit that we have sinned and confess our sins, He is faithful and just (true to His own nature and promises) and will forgive our sins [dismiss our lawlessness] and [continuously] cleanse us from all unrighteousness [everything not in conformity to His will in purpose, thought, and action]. (10) If we say (claim) we have not sinned, we contradict His Word and make Him out to be false and a liar, and His Word is not in us [the divine message of the Gospel is not in our hearts].

Jas 2:10 AMP For whosoever keeps the Law [as a] whole but stumbles and offends in one [single instance] has become guilty of [breaking] all of it.

Again, the purpose of the law still exists and it is not abolished. We uphold the law by our faith. But, we must recognize the proper purpose the law has in a believer's life. We can see if we are using the law lawfully or not by this simple question. Do we side with the Accuser of the brethren, or do we side with the Advocate? Which way of thinking is our way of thinking? If it is like the Accuser's, we are on his side. If our thinking is like the Advocate's, we are on his side. It is very important which side we are on!


Here's the problem for you and everyone else, in your thinking pattern or regular Christians; we've all sinned and fallen short. You've done evil. You continue doing evil. So I guess that means you are going to the lake of fire, Tanzel. Sorry to give you the bad news, but that is what your belief system says. By your own belief you are condemning yourself and giving the Accuser of the brethren the right to condemn you.

Paul said in Hebrews.....(v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. [/FONT][/FONT](v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation). [/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]So, I pray you'll wake up and overcome that, and realize there is only one Way to the Father, and it is not keeping commandments. BTW, in the last verse you quoted, Rev 22:14, the "his commandments," are those instituted as new commandments by Yahshua HaMashiach. He is the Tree of Life. We have to accept HIS WAY of salvation to partake of HIM the Tree of Life.[/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT][/FONT]

If you refuse to keep the commandments then, please don't pray for me.
Jesusu said in Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

By the way Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun


Again, the purpose of the law still exists and it is not abolished. We uphold the law by our faith. But, we must recognize the proper purpose the law has in a believer's life. We can see if we are using the law lawfully or not by this simple question. Do we side with the Accuser of the brethren, or do we side with the Advocate? Which way of thinking is our way of thinking? If it is like the Accuser's, we are on his side. If our thinking is like the Advocate's, we are on his side. It is very important which side we are on!


Paul said in Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

If you no that we are to be Judge bt the law then start keeping the law. Theres no in between here. Keep the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week as commanded and the other commandments according to the scriptues in Exodus the 20 Chapter. James told you to do this...James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

The key word is If....now go back to the scriptures in Exodus 20 Chapter and start fulfilling the Royal law, then, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:











[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][/FONT][/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]
 
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Tanzel, how is it that you seem to read so much of scripture well, but can’t seem to understand what Paul was saying in the following verse?

(Romans 14:1-18) “Accept him whose faith is weak, without passing judgment on disputable matters. One man's faith allows him to eat everything, but another man, whose faith is weak, eats only vegetables. The man who eats everything must not look down on him who does not, and the man who does not eat everything must not condemn the man who does, for God has accepted him. Who are you to judge someone else's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. And he will stand, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord. He who eats meat, eats to the Lord, for he gives thanks to God; and he who abstains, does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. For none of us lives to himself alone and none of us dies to himself alone. If we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. So, whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. For this very reason, Christ died and returned to life so that he might be the Lord of both the dead and the living. You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. 11It is written: 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' " So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. For the kingdom of God is not a matter of eating and drinking, but of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit, because anyone who serves Christ in this way is pleasing to God and approved by men. “
 
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DavidPresently

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Paul said in Hebrews.....(v.26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Now do we understand what’s being said here? If you sin willfully after you have knowledge of what the truth is, no more animals are going to die for you. [/FONT][/FONT](v.27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. [FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Now if you are being deceived into believing that once you are under God’s grace you no longer have to keep his commandments, all you have to look forward to is the day of judgement and the lake of fire (fiery indignation). [/FONT][/FONT]




If you refuse to keep the commandments then, please don't pray for me.
Jesusu said in Matthew 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
19:17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
19:18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19:19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

By the way Solomon said in Ecclesiastes 1:9 The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun




Paul said in Romans 10:3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.

If you no that we are to be Judge bt the law then start keeping the law. Theres no in between here. Keep the sabbath day on the seventh day of the week as commanded and the other commandments according to the scriptues in Exodus the 20 Chapter. James told you to do this...James 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:

The key word is If....now go back to the scriptures in Exodus 20 Chapter and start fulfilling the Royal law, then, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:












[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]
[/FONT]
[/FONT]

Tanzel, don't kid yourself, man. You don't keep the Sabbath and you never have. You try, but you don't keep it. You still come short and are a sinner. You still do evil. If you will be judged by your works alone, you will be in the second death. The only thing that will keep you from the second death is God's righteousness, not your own. You misquoted Paul on that line.

I'm not the one trying to establish my own righteousness instead of accepting God's righteousness. This is the righteousness God has offered:

Rom 3:20-26 AMP For no person will be justified (made righteous, acquitted, and judged acceptable) in His sight by observing the works prescribed by the Law. For [the real function of] the Law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin [not mere perception, but an acquaintance with sin which works toward repentance, faith, and holy character]. (21) But now the righteousness of God has been revealed independently and altogether apart from the Law, although actually it is attested by the Law and the Prophets, (22) Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction, (23) Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives. (24) [All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus, (25) Whom God put forward [before the eyes of all] as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood [the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received] through faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment. (26) It was to demonstrate and prove at the present time (in the now season) that He Himself is righteous and that He justifies and accepts as righteous him who has [true] faith in Jesus.

You still don't understand the purpose of the law. It is not to make you right with God - that was never its purpose, as is revealed in the NT. If it could have given righteousness and salvation and eternal life, then Jesus didn't need to come and provide a new covenant way.

That does not mean we become lawless or make excuse for doing wrong. I fully believe in believers in Christ being obedient to God. But, we are obedient because of love, according to how the Holy Spirit writes it on our hearts. We are not legalistic or trying to gain God's favor by our own righteousness by fleshly works of the law.

You are. You are completely missing it and stumbling over the stumbling stone.

Rom 10:2-4 AMP I bear them witness that they have a [certain] zeal and enthusiasm for God, but it is not enlightened and according to [correct and vital] knowledge. (3) For being ignorant of the righteousness that God ascribes [which makes one acceptable to Him in word, thought, and deed] and seeking to establish a righteousness (a means of salvation) of their own, they did not obey or submit themselves to God's righteousness. (4) For Christ is the end of the Law [the limit at which it ceases to be, for the Law leads up to Him Who is the fulfillment of its types, and in Him the purpose which it was designed to accomplish is fulfilled. That is, the purpose of the Law is fulfilled in Him] as the means of righteousness (right relationship to God) for everyone who trusts in and adheres to and relies on Him.

Gal 3:21-26 AMP Is the Law then contrary and opposed to the promises of God? Of course not! For if a Law had been given which could confer [spiritual] life, then righteousness and right standing with God would certainly have come by Law. (22) But the Scriptures [picture all mankind as sinners] shut up and imprisoned by sin, so that [the inheritance, blessing] which was promised through faith in Jesus Christ (the Messiah) might be given (released, delivered, and committed) to [all] those who believe [who adhere to and trust in and rely on Him]. (23) Now before the faith came, we were perpetually guarded under the Law, kept in custody in preparation for the faith that was destined to be revealed (unveiled, disclosed), (24) So that the Law served [to us Jews] as our trainer [our guardian, our guide to Christ, to lead us] until Christ [came], that we might be justified (declared righteous, put in right standing with God) by and through faith. (25) But now that the faith has come, we are no longer under a trainer (the guardian of our childhood). (26) For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith.

Php 3:6-9 AMP As to my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church, and by the Law's standard of righteousness (supposed justice, uprightness, and right standing with God) I was proven to be blameless and no fault was found with me. (7) But whatever former things I had that might have been gains to me, I have come to consider as [one combined] loss for Christ's sake. (8) Yes, furthermore, I count everything as loss compared to the possession of the priceless privilege (the overwhelming preciousness, the surpassing worth, and supreme advantage) of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord and of progressively becoming more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him [of perceiving and recognizing and understanding Him more fully and clearly]. For His sake I have lost everything and consider it all to be mere rubbish (refuse, dregs), in order that I may win (gain) Christ (the Anointed One), (9) And that I may [actually] be found and known as in Him, not having any [self-achieved] righteousness that can be called my own, based on my obedience to the Law's demands (ritualistic uprightness and supposed right standing with God thus acquired), but possessing that [genuine righteousness] which comes through faith in Christ (the Anointed One), the [truly] right standing with God, which comes from God by [saving] faith.

Rom 9:31-33 AMP Whereas Israel, though ever in pursuit of a law [for the securing] of righteousness (right standing with God), actually did not succeed in fulfilling the Law. [Isa. 51:1.] (32) For what reason? Because [they pursued it] not through faith, relying [instead] on the merit of their works [they did not depend on faith but on what they could do]. They have stumbled over the Stumbling Stone. [Isa. 8:14; 28:16.] (33) As it is written, Behold I am laying in Zion a Stone that will make men stumble, a Rock that will make them fall; but he who believes in Him [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] shall not be put to shame nor be disappointed in his expectations. [Isa. 28:16.]

Quit stumbling at the stone.
 
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Tanzel, don't kid yourself, man. You don't keep the Sabbath and you never have. You try, but you don't keep it. You still come short and are a sinner. You still do evil. If you will be judged by your works alone, you will be in the second death. The only thing that will keep you from the second death is God's righteousness, not your own. You misquoted Paul on that line.

I'm not the one trying to establish my own righteousness instead of accepting God's righteousness. This is the righteousness God has offered:

Rom 3:20-26 AMP For no person will be justified (made righteous, acquitted, and judged acceptable) in His sight by observing the works prescribed by the Law. For [the real function of] the Law is to make men recognize and be conscious of sin [not mere perception, but an acquaintance with sin which works toward repentance, faith, and holy character]. (21) But now the righteousness of God has been revealed independently and altogether apart from the Law, although actually it is attested by the Law and the Prophets, (22) Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction, (23) Since all have sinned and are falling short of the honor and glory which God bestows and receives. (24) [All] are justified and made upright and in right standing with God, freely and gratuitously by His grace (His unmerited favor and mercy), through the redemption which is [provided] in Christ Jesus, (25) Whom God put forward [before the eyes of all] as a mercy seat and propitiation by His blood [the cleansing and life-giving sacrifice of atonement and reconciliation, to be received] through faith. This was to show God's righteousness, because in His divine forbearance He had passed over and ignored former sins without punishment. (26) It was to demonstrate and prove at the present time (in the now season) that He Himself is righteous and that He justifies and accepts as righteous him who has [true] faith in Jesus.

You still don't understand the purpose of the law. It is not to make you right with God - that was never its purpose, as is revealed in the NT. If it could have given righteousness and salvation and eternal life, then Jesus didn't need to come and provide a new covenant way.

That does not mean we become lawless or make excuse for doing wrong. I fully believe in believers in Christ being obedient to God. But, we are obedient because of love, according to how the Holy Spirit writes it on our hearts. We are not legalistic or trying to gain God's favor by our own righteousness by fleshly works of the law.

You are. You are completely missing it and stumbling over the stumbling stone.

Rom 10:2-4 AMP I bear them witness that they have a [certain] zeal and enthusiasm for God, but it is not enlightened and according to [correct and vital] knowledge. (3) For being ignorant of the righteousness that God ascribes [which makes one acceptable to Him in word, thought, and deed] and seeking to establish a righteousness (a means of salvation) of their own, they did not obey or submit themselves to God's righteousness. (4) For Christ is the end of the Law [the limit at which it ceases to be, for the Law leads up to Him Who is the fulfillment of its types, and in Him the purpose which it was designed to accomplish is fulfilled. That is, the purpose of the Law is fulfilled in Him] as the means of righteousness (right relationship to God) for everyone who trusts in and adheres to and relies on Him.

Gal 3:21-26 AMP Is the Law then contrary and opposed to the promises of God? Of course not! For if a Law had been given which could confer [spiritual] life, then righteousness and right standing with God would certainly have come by Law. (22) But the Scriptures [picture all mankind as sinners] shut up and imprisoned by sin, so that [the inheritance, blessing] which was promised through faith in Jesus Christ (the Messiah) might be given (released, delivered, and committed) to [all] those who believe [who adhere to and trust in and rely on Him]. (23) Now before the faith came, we were perpetually guarded under the Law, kept in custody in preparation for the faith that was destined to be revealed (unveiled, disclosed), (24) So that the Law served [to us Jews] as our trainer [our guardian, our guide to Christ, to lead us] until Christ [came], that we might be justified (declared righteous, put in right standing with God) by and through faith. (25) But now that the faith has come, we are no longer under a trainer (the guardian of our childhood). (26) For in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God through faith.

Php 3:6-9 AMP As to my zeal, I was a persecutor of the church, and by the Law's standard of righteousness (supposed justice, uprightness, and right standing with God) I was proven to be blameless and no fault was found with me. (7) But whatever former things I had that might have been gains to me, I have come to consider as [one combined] loss for Christ's sake. (8) Yes, furthermore, I count everything as loss compared to the possession of the priceless privilege (the overwhelming preciousness, the surpassing worth, and supreme advantage) of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord and of progressively becoming more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him [of perceiving and recognizing and understanding Him more fully and clearly]. For His sake I have lost everything and consider it all to be mere rubbish (refuse, dregs), in order that I may win (gain) Christ (the Anointed One), (9) And that I may [actually] be found and known as in Him, not having any [self-achieved] righteousness that can be called my own, based on my obedience to the Law's demands (ritualistic uprightness and supposed right standing with God thus acquired), but possessing that [genuine righteousness] which comes through faith in Christ (the Anointed One), the [truly] right standing with God, which comes from God by [saving] faith.

Rom 9:31-33 AMP Whereas Israel, though ever in pursuit of a law [for the securing] of righteousness (right standing with God), actually did not succeed in fulfilling the Law. [Isa. 51:1.] (32) For what reason? Because [they pursued it] not through faith, relying [instead] on the merit of their works [they did not depend on faith but on what they could do]. They have stumbled over the Stumbling Stone. [Isa. 8:14; 28:16.] (33) As it is written, Behold I am laying in Zion a Stone that will make men stumble, a Rock that will make them fall; but he who believes in Him [who adheres to, trusts in, and relies on Him] shall not be put to shame nor be disappointed in his expectations. [Isa. 28:16.]

Quit stumbling at the stone.

Tanzel, don't kid yourself, man. You don't keep the Sabbath and you never have. You try, but you don't keep it. You still come short and are a sinner. You still do evil. If you will be judged by your works alone, you will be in the second death. The only thing that will keep you from the second death is God's righteousness, not your own. You misquoted Paul on that line.

See a carnal minded person would tell you a thing or two about yourself,
but a spiritual minded person would dust his feet off and keep moving.
So I'm going to keep moving, I put forth a nought scriptures and verses
to prove my point to letter whether you believe or not so, take it or leave it.


Deuteronomy 30:15 See, I have set before thee this day life and good, and death and evil;

30:16 In that I command thee this day to love the LORD thy God, to walk in his ways, and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judgments, that thou mayest live and multiply: and the LORD thy God shall bless thee in the land whither thou goest to possess it

30:19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

30:20 That thou mayest love the LORD thy God, and that thou mayest obey his voice, and that thou mayest cleave unto him: for he is thy life, and the length of thy days: that thou mayest dwell in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers, to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob, to give them.

Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 
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