Teens Forum

Ok..I've got a crazy week and I don't want this to sit here with no one giving responses. dluvs is going to be helping in here answering questions and posting.

Re-opened. I'll be on for awhile answering whatever questions y'all have.

(please repost them as I don't have enough time to go back and read every post )

I agree that 19-year olds are still teens and should still be allowed in the teens section. I am not sure why the age limit of 18 is even being considered.

I'm a little unsure about 20 year olds being in the teen section though. Technically they aren't teens, but as has been pointed out they still have more in common with teens than with 30-year olds. I hear what others like jbarcher and superoctav are saying and I agree that over the years we have had some great older members who have been a tremendous help to those who are younger and want more than a "devotional" level of knowledge to their faith. Older members can be extremely helpful in this regard with their "real world" experience. Older members can reassure younger members struggling with peer pressure to "hang in there" because things change after high school.

This dynamic is what you would lose if you removed the older members. And with the plan to have 1 general area being Christian only it would be a safe place for the younger members to fellowship with older members.

When I was 13 and first became a member of the board, non-Christians were not allowed in the teen section. The older members then were mostly liberal Christians who were debating topics such as the doctrine of universalism and mostly dismissing Biblical authority. So even though these were Christians they were still teaching things neither me nor my parents agreed with. My point is, if the parents who are concerned about the teen section think this plan is going to cure everything they are wrong.

If...I'm saying if as it's just a suggestion or thought...if it ended up 20-21 or 21 had to leave the Teens area, would a new forum just for them make the transition easier? Like for 20/21-24?

* ages are not decided, nor a new forum. this is only a thought

I am not openly emotional but I will tell you with tears in my eyes that if it were not for someone in university, on this board, telling me that things are really different and that highschool doesn't set the course of your life (or something very significant), I would be in a very bad place now. Such a fact may be painfully obvious to those of us who have not followed stereotypical routes, but it is as alien to many of us as much as raising a child is alien to many new parents.

The thing is, there is both good and bad for both arguments.

Jbarcher had a good experience with older members of the teen section. Great. . .we all rejoice in this fact.

But in the last 6 months I have seen 21-year old unbelievers openly mock the faith of younger members. This is bad and we all agree it doesn't need to happen.

If the age limit is lowered, does that mean younger Christians will not have their faith challenged by those similar in age? No.

If the age limit is lowered, does this mean younger Christians will miss out on the positive influence of older Christians. Yes.

So the question is. . .what is the purpose of the teen section? Answer: To promote Christian fellowship among teens. All of this is being considered because some bad apples made their way into the fellowship and spoiled the fun. And the fact of the matter is that nothing is stopping anyone from creating a sock account with any age they want and go wherever they want. So the notion of truly making the teen area safe is a pipe dream since in this case safety relies on an honor code and. . .is there honor among thieves? (Note--I'm not calling anyone a thief.)

Here's my point. . .jbarcher had a good experience with older members. Would he have been exposed to the same eye-opening revelation elsewhere besides CFT? Only God knows. The site advisors of CF have to decide the dynamic they want for CFTeens. I tend to think there are some good reasons to keeping older members around since a truly safe teen area isn't possible anyway. The Big Brother/Big Sister dynamic being the most positive.

Atlantians said:

-I do recommend opening the forum as it was before temporarily for the purpose of Goodbyes... or creating a temporary sub-forum for that purpose.

-I would also suggest the age limit be no less than 19 to remain true to the teen forum name (IE: teens) and to recognize that there are 19 year old who are in High School or the first year of college for whatever reason.

+I do want to ask, also, why the age change is necessary in one respect: Any 14 year old on the site can go to the ethics forum and debate homosexuality or abortion with 50 year olds. Or any other forum. It seems odd that parent's suggestions are being allowed for one single forum that causes much damage... yet also doesn't change anything because if a perv was here, they could make an account saying '15' and post in the new forum anyway... or a legitimate 14 year old could go anywhere besides the age-limited forums. It doesn't make too much sense to me from that perspective.

I recommend combining a few of those forums into one main and several sub-forums. They all redundantly are around the same age group.


This is all entirely true. Even at my Church in real life, the College students are still hanging around with the Teens if they are at a local college.


As far as we can tell without an official word:
-Some unidentified parents complained that older people who were 20, 21, ect. were allowed to interact freely with 13, 14 and 15 year olds.
-If those parents are related to anyone in the teen section is also unconfirmed.


I always supported the Christian only identifier of that Forum and opposed the changes that took place a year or so ago when all rules were lifted and all the nether regions broke loose.

I don't see a need for the age limit for reasons I already voiced.

I will, however, promote a compromise at 19 or 20 if it is absolutely pre-determined.

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Yes- direct feedback/PMs were from parents who have kids on the board. Some of the parents were staff and some were not. Several comments were made that a 12 year old should probably not get the same advice from other teens that an 18 year old should get. Many parents were simply uncomfortable with the age range being so broad- 12 and under through 21. I can't speak as a parent because I'm not one. I can speak for myself and I also found it uncomfortable. Remembering back that far at age twelve or thirteen I do not recall ever hanging out (or whatever it's called now) with people in their 20's. Of course this was way before the internet. And I am not saying that people in their 20's have no value to the teen section or do not give appropriate advice or whatever. I'm telling you what some adults thought on the matter. So I agreed the age range seemed really, really broad. I can also say that at 17 in college I had way more in common with people still in high school and found it uncomfortable in college.

We are going to take into account the feedback and wishes of parents. They will not always co-incide with what the teen area members want. But the parents are your parents and actually raising people in the teenage bracket and they will be listened to.

The comments that teens can get approached by adults anywhere on the board is extremely compelling and valid. I'm also aware that there are probably already people on here saying they are a teen girl when in reality they are some 50 year old man.

I had more but I lost my train of thought. I'll be back later in the day to re-open if nobody else gets on first.

meh said:

Ok..I've got a crazy week and I don't want this to sit here with no one giving responses. dluvs is going to be helping in here answering questions and posting.

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Hi everyone

Like meh said, I'm going to jump in here and see if I can help answer some questions too

I'm on my lunch break from work so the thread will be open for a little bit at least before I have to head back

Is their going to be a schedule for when people can ask questions in this thread ?
It seems quite random as to when it's open / closed, and the ones that are effected by it may not be on the same time schedule as the ones opening & closing it over & over.

I'm still reading thru all the posts and getting caught up on everyone's comments but I thought I'd jump in and make a comment about this...

Samuel_Rigby said:

My point is, if the parents who are concerned about the teen section think this plan is going to cure everything they are wrong.

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No one is in any way saying, hinting or implying that this will cure everything. We know that it won't. What we are saying is that we, Pauler - the advisors - and all staff, must do what we can to make things as safe and protected as possible. Again, let me emphasis, as safe as possible. We all know that people can create sock accts and present themselves as someone they are not however, all we can do is our best and the changes that are being considered and discussed now is our best effort to make the forum as safe and protected as possible while still doing our best to meet the needs of our teen members.

Toclafane said:

Is their going to be a schedule for when people can ask questions in this thread ?
It seems quite random as to when it's open / closed, and the ones that are effected by it may not be on the same time schedule as the ones opening & closing it over & over.

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I hear ya and unfortunately, no There is no schedule. However, what I would suggest is PMing myself or meh or one of the other moderators that has been answering questions in this thread. That way you can ask your question(s) while it's still fresh in your mind and we can post them in the thread along with our answer when someone is able to be online.

I hope that helps

Ok...gotta head back to work Closing the thread up for now. Either another mod will reopen it or I'll be back after work and will get it reopened then.

Please feel free to PM me any questions you may have and I'll post the question and answer when I get back

Toclafane said:

Is their going to be a schedule for when people can ask questions in this thread ?
It seems quite random as to when it's open / closed, and the ones that are effected by it may not be on the same time schedule as the ones opening & closing it over & over.

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like dluvs says there is no schedule. usually i am on a lot more but i have a family event to get pulled together this week. i hesitate to leave it open because it's going really well and i don't want anything to occur that causes people to want it shut down. i'll go ahead and ask the mods to leave it open all day today and tonight.

meh said:

Yes- direct feedback/PMs were from parents who have kids on the board. Some of the parents were staff and some were not. Several comments were made that a 12 year old should probably not get the same advice from other teens that an 18 year old should get. Many parents were simply uncomfortable with the age range being so broad- 12 and under through 21. I can't speak as a parent because I'm not one. I can speak for myself and I also found it uncomfortable. Remembering back that far at age twelve or thirteen I do not recall ever hanging out (or whatever it's called now) with people in their 20's. Of course this was way before the internet. And I am not saying that people in their 20's have no value to the teen section or do not give appropriate advice or whatever. I'm telling you what some adults thought on the matter. So I agreed the age range seemed really, really broad. I can also say that at 17 in college I had way more in common with people still in high school and found it uncomfortable in college.

We are going to take into account the feedback and wishes of parents. They will not always co-incide with what the teen area members want. But the parents are your parents and actually raising people in the teenage bracket and they will be listened to.

The comments that teens can get approached by adults anywhere on the board is extremely compelling and valid. I'm also aware that there are probably already people on here saying they are a teen girl when in reality they are some 50 year old man.

I had more but I lost my train of thought. I'll be back later in the day to re-open if nobody else gets on first.

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Thanks for the continued responses Meh, we all appreciate it greatly.

I mentioned this before but I feel it may have been forgotten on previous pages. I am sympathetic to the parents concerns, but I feel they sometimes forget their freshmen in high school is often interacting with people who can be considered legal adults who are also in high school. Parents concerns are important, but there is a larger picture that needs to be kept in scope. If the purpose of the CFT forum is to help teens grow in their faith, the problem is not older members, it is those who bash Christianity. What parents probably see is some older CFT members who are also non-Christians debating the validity of Christianity, and instead of going to the advisers with the complaint of members bashing Christianity, they decided to take it out on the age group, which is completely unfair. If you want the young teens to become solid Christians, you need to keep us older members. We can guide them. Without us their questions about certain topics will end up being answered by other young teens, and that can lead to more problems for them. If the issue is CFT's in not safe for young Christians, I'd suggest looking at keeping that forum Christian only instead of removing an integral part of Biblical knowledge held by people the young teens know, respect, and in many cases have befriended.

The current age range is broad, but it makes the most sense. People of those ages share most things in common (school, first jobs, dating, young siblings, etc.)

meh said:

If...I'm saying if as it's just a suggestion or thought...if it ended up 20-21 or 21 had to leave the Teens area, would a new forum just for them make the transition easier? Like for 20/21-24?

* ages are not decided, nor a new forum. this is only a thought

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Although I appreciate the gesture, it would do nothing to ease the frustrations and anger of the teens.

One of the irritating things for us has been that although we older people are being told "oh you can now post in the young adult section" the problem there is that there is not half the activity on that board as there is on the teens board. And like posted earlier I am in the crowed that seems to be more able to relate to the teens (will be 20 soon) then the young adults, who are careered, married, ect ect and just not quite in the same stage of life that i am. I do not see how an older teens forum would fix this.

SuperOktav said:

If the purpose of the CFT forum is to help teens grow in their faith, the problem is not older members, it is those who bash Christianity.

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I agree.

SuperOktav said:

If you want the young teens to become solid Christians, you need to keep us older members. We can guide them. Without us their questions about certain topics will end up being answered by other young teens, and that can lead to more problems for them.

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Good point. It is good for younger teens to have their faith challenged. But it needs to be in a safe environment with those who want to see younger teens grow in their faith and have the best interests of the younger teens in mind. Non-believers, for the most part, do not have the best interests of younger teens in mind when they issue challenges and it often results in mockery.

SuperOktav said:

If the issue is CFT's in not safe for young Christians, I'd suggest looking at keeping that forum Christian only instead of removing an integral part of Biblical knowledge held by people the young teens know, respect, and in many cases have befriended.

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I agree.

What parents probably see is some older CFT members who are also non-Christians debating the validity of Christianity, and instead of going to the advisers with the complaint of members bashing Christianity, they decided to take it out on the age group, which is completely unfair.

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What I don't get is why you're punishing the older members. We have several younger teens in the forum who are Atheists. We get younger teens that bash on Christianity too. All I see is you people trying to appease these "parents" who complain about the site. If they don't like it, that's their problem. They can decide what they want their children on. Site-wide regulation isn't going to change anything. You know that as well as I do.

S53 said:

What I don't get is why you're punishing the older members. We have several younger teens in the forum who are Atheists. We get younger teens that bash on Christianity too. All I see is you people trying to appease these "parents" who complain about the site. If they don't like it, that's their problem. They can decide what they want their children on. Site-wide regulation isn't going to change anything. You know that as well as I do.

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and like i have pointed out earlier, what CF intended to accomplish and what has been accomplished are 2 different things. instead of getting form where christianity is the common ground, the teens have migrated to a forum that is primarily administered by an atheist. she is being very respectful of christianity, and has shown that she is respectfully enough for me to be ok with having on a christian forum however... but im guessing the parents aren't to happy with this result. And like i said before for every day that advisers are spending debating the more people are coming to like that forum.. what you intended and the unforeseen consequences of reality are two different things.

I do not mean any disrespect by this, or any post in this thread... couldn't think of a way to put it other then this.

Samuel_Rigby said:

Good point. It is good for younger teens to have their faith challenged. But it needs to be in a safe environment with those who want to see younger teens grow in their faith and have the best interests of the younger teens in mind. Non-believers, for the most part, do not have the best interests of younger teens in mind when they issue challenges and it often results in mockery.

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Allow me to interject for a second.

NonChristians are not your problem, but rather people who don't agree with your brand of Christianity. I have read earlier in the topic that if we took the NCs out, universalism and annihilationism would simply take its place, and those are much stronger heresies than mere atheism because twisting people's theologies is much easier than breaking them altogether.

And who says it's the older NonChristians that are all the problems? I think there are more than a few young atheists who could challenge some of the ones that were previously in GT. This another reason why the age-limit idea had the best intentions, but the reality is that it is doing nothing but splitting best friends and strong Christians from being in community with one another. At least if the age changes were lessened, the younger ones could look upon us for some sort of support, instead of having them go through crises of faith alone.

I also feel disheartened by your comments that it is NonChristians who are causing all the trouble, and not contributing in debates. Oftentimes, it is quite the opposite. Posters, especially more "strong" (used loosely, I would prefer the term "deluded") Christians used to simply flame people who were not on their side, because of some reason or another. What one must come to realize is that every debate is not a "let's post/twist the best verse for the situation", but rather to debate properly comes from the abilty to practice discerment, common sense, basic reasoning skills, and finally a knowledege of Scripture. I'm sorry to say, but not all answers to our lives (such as what color socks to wear today) aren't in the Bible. NonChristians, often shown as bastions of reason to the illogical fundamentalists, serve to remind us of the importance of Reason as the other "hand" of Faith.

By the way Meh, I thank you and the other staff to keeping these lines of communication open. You are a great person, and your continued responses to these concerns only show that my idea of yourself was not wrong in the slightest.

CrazyPerson said:

Although I appreciate the gesture, it would do nothing to ease the frustrations and anger of the teens.

One of the irritating things for us has been that although we older people are being told "oh you can now post in the young adult section" the problem there is that there is not half the activity on that board as there is on the teens board. And like posted earlier I am in the crowed that seems to be more able to relate to the teens (will be 20 soon) then the young adults, who are careered, married, ect ect and just not quite in the same stage of life that i am. I do not see how an older teens forum would fix this.

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I agree with you. I think they should keep the teen forum up and the age limit should be 20. I think 18Teen year and 19Teen year old should be able to post there. Thats just my opinion
God Bless everyone, Youth Pastor Kristina