Is God fair when it comes to salvation?

Hammster · Apr 29, 2009

I have hear by many anti-Calvinists that God loved the world so much that Jesus died for every man, everywhere. Now, I disagree with this, but it makes me wonder. If this is true, is God fair about salvation? It would seem to me that, based on the realities of the world, that He isn't fair about getting the word out to everybody. There just aren't enough evangelists. It would also seem that the kid in Montgomery, Alabama, would have a much better chance at "accepting" Jesus and the kid living in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, or Tehran, Iran.

So I am just wondering how the non-Calvinist view of God can be called fair and loving.

beloved57 · Apr 30, 2009

God only Loved His elect, not the seed of the devil..He does what He wants to do, doesnt matter if you or anyone else thinks its unfair..who are we to Judge God ?

Dondi · May 13, 2009

beloved57 said:
God only Loved His elect, not the seed of the devil..He does what He wants to do, doesnt matter if you or anyone else thinks its unfair..who are we to Judge God ?

Who is the seed of the devil?

Eucharistic Adoration · May 14, 2009

Hammster said:
I have hear by many anti-Calvinists that God loved the world so much that Jesus died for every man, everywhere. Now, I disagree with this, but it makes me wonder. If this is true, is God fair about salvation? It would seem to me that, based on the realities of the world, that He isn't fair about getting the word out to everybody. There just aren't enough evangelists. It would also seem that the kid in Montgomery, Alabama, would have a much better chance at "accepting" Jesus and the kid living in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, or Tehran, Iran.

So I am just wondering how the non-Calvinist view of God can be called fair and loving.

Seems fair to me:

1 Peter

17Since you call on a Father who judges each man's work impartially, live your lives as strangers here in reverent fear.

Luke 12
47 "Suppose a servant knows his master's wishes. But he doesn't get ready. And he doesn't do what his master wants. That servant will be beaten with many blows.
48 "But suppose the servant does not know his master's wishes. And suppose he does things for which he should be punished. He will be beaten with only a few blows.
"Much will be required of everyone who has been given much. Even more will be asked of the person who is supposed to take care of much.

green wolverine · May 14, 2009

Your question reminds me of something John MacArthur [Grace To You ministries and pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley California] said on a sermon I listened to recently. He was discussing how in Europe, people understand what a sovereign monarch is and are mostly Calvinists as they have a history of living under a monarch who does what he wills and isn't answerable to anyone else. I found that interesting.

The thing that always amazes me how people who truly don't want to be Christian get all upset that they aren't. The don't want it, hate God and most would rather be taken out and shot than submit themselves to Christ. No one who isn't saved will wish they were any more than the devil wishes he hadn't rebelled.

Eucharistic Adoration · May 14, 2009

green wolverine said:
Your question reminds me of something John MacArthur [Grace To You ministries and pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley California] said on a sermon I listened to recently. He was discussing how in Europe, people understand what a sovereign monarch is and are mostly Calvinists as they have a history of living under a monarch who does what he wills and isn't answerable to anyone else. I found that interesting.

The thing that always amazes me how people who truly don't want to be Christian get all upset that they aren't. The don't want it, hate God and most would rather be taken out and shot than submit themselves to Christ. No one who isn't saved will wish they were any more than the devil wishes he hadn't rebelled.

Europe is mostly secular and Calvinists make up a small percentage of the population. Among Christians, Catholics outnumber Calvinists.

MacArthur is wrong again.

Toclafane · May 14, 2009

Dondi said:
Who is the seed of the devil?

Anyone who's not a Child of God.

Eucharistic Adoration · May 14, 2009

Toclafane said:
Anyone who's not a Child of God.

Was Paul a child of God when he was killing Christians?

Toclafane · May 14, 2009

Eucharistic Adoration said:
Was Paul a child of God when he was killing Christians?

I'd guess that he was a disobedient child.

Eucharistic Adoration · May 14, 2009

Toclafane said:
I'd guess that he was a disobedient child.

Isn't obedience the key?

If we consistently don't obey God will we go to heaven?

Toclafane · May 14, 2009

Eucharistic Adoration said:
Isn't obedience the key?

If we consistently don't obey God will we go to heaven?

If you 100% of the time disobey God I'd doubt your one of His Children
If you 100% of the time obey God I'd guess you're one of His Children. (I only know of one Person that managed this)
anything between the two I couldn't guess.
can you ?

Hammster · May 14, 2009

Toclafane said:
If you 100% of the time disobey God I'd doubt your one of His Children
If you 100% of the time obey God I'd guess you're one of His Children. (I only know of one Person that managed this)
anything between the two I couldn't guess.
can you ?

The kid next door doesn't obey me, or do what I want. He doesn't mow my grass. He doesn't clean the kids rooms. Or do laundry. Why? He isn't my kid, and I don't tell him what to do.

Now my kids are different. The do the things I tell them. They clean, do dishes, do laundry, etc. Do they ever disobey? Yep. The are still little sinners. Are they still my children when they disobey? Yes, they are.

Now, if the kid next door, for some strange reason, came over and did my dishes, would he somehow become my son? Nope.

My point is this: the issue here isn't what is done by anybody. The issue is the relationship. We are obedient to God, not perfectly, because of our relationship to him. Those who may do similar things as us, but do not have the relationship with God, are not doing God's will. That is the point of "many will come to me that day and say 'Lord, Lord'".

Eucharistic Adoration · May 14, 2009

Toclafane said:
If you 100% of the time disobey God I'd doubt your one of His Children
If you 100% of the time obey God I'd guess you're one of His Children. (I only know of one Person that managed this)
anything between the two I couldn't guess.
can you ?

So our effort plays a part.

I believe that we must strive for holiness if we want to see God.

70x7 · May 14, 2009

God is the most fair you will ever know. Careful not to put OUR preception of fairness into what God should be. God does not judge by your actions but by your heart.
Yes. Fair to the bone.

Benefactor · May 14, 2009

green wolverine said:
Your question reminds me of something John MacArthur [Grace To You ministries and pastor of Grace Community Church in Sun Valley California] said on a sermon I listened to recently. He was discussing how in Europe, people understand what a sovereign monarch is and are mostly Calvinists as they have a history of living under a monarch who does what he wills and isn't answerable to anyone else. I found that interesting.

The thing that always amazes me how people who truly don't want to be Christian get all upset that they aren't. The don't want it, hate God and most would rather be taken out and shot than submit themselves to Christ. No one who isn't saved will wish they were any more than the devil wishes he hadn't rebelled.

I do not know nor have I ever run into a person who is lost who is upset because they are not saved.

Your statement is illogical.

green wolverine · May 14, 2009

70x7 said:
God is the most fair you will ever know. Careful not to put OUR preception of fairness into what God should be. God does not judge by your actions but by your heart.
Yes. Fair to the bone.

You're absolutely right.

God is also absolutely just and will mete out justice to those not saved in the judgement. Nothing could be worse than receiving justice from the hand of God.

Hammster · May 14, 2009

Benefactor said:
I do not know nor have I ever run into a person who is lost who is upset because they are not saved.

Now you are starting to get it.

Eucharistic Adoration · May 14, 2009

Benefactor said:
I do not know nor have I ever run into a person who is lost who is upset because they are not saved.

Your statement is illogical.

So now you claim to know who is saved and who is lost!

Eucharistic Adoration · May 14, 2009

70x7 said:
God is the most fair you will ever know. Careful not to put OUR preception of fairness into what God should be. God does not judge by your actions but by your heart.
Yes. Fair to the bone.

God will judge our thoughts, words, and deeds.

Hammster · Apr 18, 2013

Hammster said:
I have hear by many anti-Calvinists that God loved the world so much that Jesus died for every man, everywhere. Now, I disagree with this, but it makes me wonder. If this is true, is God fair about salvation? It would seem to me that, based on the realities of the world, that He isn't fair about getting the word out to everybody. There just aren't enough evangelists. It would also seem that the kid in Montgomery, Alabama, would have a much better chance at "accepting" Jesus and the kid living in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, or Tehran, Iran.

So I am just wondering how the non-Calvinist view of God can be called fair and loving.

Well?

(I figured if I was going to bump an old thread, I was going OLD school (before Soteriology was shut down twice)).

Is God fair when it comes to salvation?

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