I need proof of God

ziggy6 said:

I know this board says Christians only, but I have been on the fence between Christianity and atheism. I WANT to be a believer, but I have so many doubts. For one, I don't sense God. I don't feel his presence, or "see" him, or "hear" him as so many Christians say they have. And so my question is...

If I pray to God to prove to me that he exists, will he? I don't think faith is enough for me. I want a miracle. To hear him or see heaven or something that will leave me with NO DOUBTS. I don't want something where I could say "oh, well that's just a coincidence." If I pray for certainty, is there any chance that I could get it?

I also get so discouraged when I see other people with uncertainty. I have this fear that even people who seem to have so much certainty and faith (people I envy and admire) will eventually stumble and lose faith. Be it later in their lives, or right before they die. It seems this world is too discouraging a place to ever have completely belief of God.

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You don't need to see Him my fellow Christian. Your life alone proves He exist.

Ziggy6:
I have been were you are many times,but you being here searching is proof that God exists because in your heart you know he is there look deep within yourself and you will see the proof.
When my children were born I looked at them and I saw the existence of god as I looked at them I said to myself,I will protect you and with love in my heart I new if it came down to it I would die in their stead,isn't that what Jesus did for us.
Miracles you see every day,The rain falling while one person is upset by it < rain again> the farmer that was praying for the rain that helps his crop to grow is saying thank-you lord. I am not a good one for advice so I told you what is in my heart I hope it helps.
Darcy

You have nothing to worry about. God exists and your doubts were created by atheists and doubt comes from really one source as the root. "I need to see him" is taught mostly starting in colleges and "leaked" to the rest of society. It started from the "law" of empirical verifiability. It is a nasty and false rumor that states that if you cant see, hear, smell, taste or feel something than it doesn't exist. The problem that most college students miss is that you cant see, hear, smell, taste or feel the law itself as it is not physical..therefore the law of empirical verifiability does not exist.

Now if you ask that same professor to prove they have a brain not that someone else has image or autopsy and that all humans have brains but that THEY have a brain, they will point out to the fact that they can speak and write ..etc. Now they would be violating their own rule because you cannot see, hear, smell, taste or feel their actual brain although we know they have one. So by the same evidence ,look around you and you know someone created you. The manual and evidence of a truely loving creator - God- is EVERYWHERE. However, today as the root of evil has grown strong in these times, everyone wants DNA lol. Its just all a smoke-screen of falsity and doubts.

Oh, and Jesus warned us of such doubtful thinking long ago with Thomas. Its just that, doubts. We can create or imagine all the doubts we want about the earth being round and not flat for example, however perception is not reality. The world that scientists thought was flat in the 1300's was always round and still is no matter what doubt we conjure.

icamewithasword said:

Sad, really.
How would God hear a prayer from an unbeliever?
No faith= No salvation
You'll still get to see proof tho; on judgement day, right before the unbelievers get cast into the fire.

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How would God hear a prayer from an unbeliever? Well, praise God that He heard this unbeliever's prayer when I asked Him to save me almost twelve years ago!

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

How did God manage to use unbelievers in His purposes (Cyrus for example) but He did.

John
NZ

kittn1 said:

How would God hear a prayer from an unbeliever? Well, praise God that He heard this unbeliever's prayer when I asked Him to save me almost twelve years ago!

Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

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this verse in Romans is not saying that unbelievers will have prayers answered. It is making a distinction that both Jews and Gentiles are the same under the Lord.

If an unbeliever repents and accepts Christ as savior, then God will answer his prayer.
If an unbeliever "prays" to God for Him to send some sign/ proof of His existance......might be a while...

Johnnz said:

How did God manage to use unbelievers in His purposes (Cyrus for example) but He did.

John
NZ

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I would guess that God used, and will still yet use, unbelievers in ways yet to come; at least to continue fulfilling God's purpose. But Cyrus did not "know God", even though God knew his name.

We are starting to get a bit off track from the OP, so I will "bow out".

If indeed the OP is seeking salvation, I pray he finds it and that I have not placed a stumbling block.

God Bless all those in Christ

Some of the things the bible explains as proof of the faith as being something real, is by using a fruit tree as an example. You can't pick fruit if there is no fruit tree. The bible says "Taste and know that the Lord is good". It describes the fruits of the Spirit as things like peace, joy etc. And by this people know the tree (God) by its fruits. Another example is to compare the Spirit to wind, and the bible says that we can't see the wind, but we can see the results of the wind blowing. We can't see God even if we believe in Him, but we can see the results from our belief and by that knowing He is real.

So in that case you can try to pray to Muhammad or Shiva or whatever and nothing will happen, cause there is no tree there to pick fruits from. But if you seek God, the results will be different. The bible challenges us and says pray and you shall be given, seek and you shall find, knock and the door will open.

So there is no proof given unless you look for them. But if you seek God, you will find Him. That's a promise in the bible.

God bless you.

Maybe it's just me but you sound like you think God owes you something. He doesn't owe you anything. You seem like you want God to go out of his way and reveal himself, yet, you don't even want to get on your knees and ask him for help...b/c you might waste your time thinking "normal" things are miracles?? Well, if you can't even take the time to ask, don't expect an answer. Just my $0.02...

On another note, I suggest you just ask; it can't hurt. You never know...

ziggy6 said:

Okay, I have read through this entire thread and there are so many different responses. Some of which contradict one another. Some people are saying that I SHOULD pray to God and ask for certainty. Others are saying that I already have miracles and certainty, because things like the rain happen. Well, to be 100% honest here, the RAIN ain't gonna cut it for me. Why doesn't God expose himself? Make it so people in the world have no doubt? Why does it feel like he has been silent ever since the last part of the bible was written? Wouldn't life and the world and everything be a lot easier if right now the clouds parted from the sky and a voice spoke to every soul on this planet and we could never have any doubts whatsoever?

I haven't asked God to give me certainty yet. I have yet to get down on my knees and pray. I don't want to pray if all it is going to do is make me look around for random things and think they are miracles. A word on the side of a bus. A white dove. A rose. Random things that could EASILY be disregarded as coincidence. WHY can't I have certainty? So what if people in the bible were given certainty and still doubted. Does that mean God has to try less?

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icamewithasword said:

this verse in Romans is not saying that unbelievers will have prayers answered. It is making a distinction that both Jews and Gentiles are the same under the Lord.

If an unbeliever repents and accepts Christ as savior, then God will answer his prayer.
If an unbeliever "prays" to God for Him to send some sign/ proof of His existance......might be a while...

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But at the same time, brother, if Ziggy is sincerely seeking, it's because the Father is drawing him:

Joh 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I was thinking of you, Ziggy, and this thread as I went through John 6 yesterday:

Joh 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
Joh 6:38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
Joh 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
Joh 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I notice you're on another forum that I'm on too. You're in my prayers.

ziggy6 said:

To this post and the one before it... maybe I DO think God owes me something. I don't see how anyone can live their life on this earth and be expected to believe that they will go to *heaven* when they die if they don't have some source of certainty.

This all goes back to my original post. Is it unrealistic for me to pray to God for certainty? If the answer is "Yes, it is unrealistic" ...WHY? Because God gave up trying that back in the bible days? Why is God incapable of giving someone today, in 2009, certainty of his existence? Certainty that can't be called coincidence? And even further than that... why doesn't he give the entire WORLD that certainty? He should know that making the sun shine and rain fall isn't gonna do it, because he should know that doesn't fit our definition of a miracle!

ps. And I'm a SHE.

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Hey she


Maybe in all my posts you missed thee MOST IMPORTANT POINT!


READ THESE WORDS ALOUD:


1. ANOINTED
2. SAVED
3. BORN AGAIN


This is what your seeking. For then GOD will make HIMSELF KNOWN!!!
You shall have NO doubt!!!


HE has to because HE becomes your:




1. GUIDE
2. TEACHER
3. COMUNICATOR
4. COMFORTER


NOW FOR THE PROOF!


1 John
Chapter 2


26
I write you these things about those who would deceive you.


27
As for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you, so that you do not need anyone to teach you. But his anointing teaches you about everything and is true and not false; just as it taught you, remain in him.


Now I'm not going to say anything else so there is no chance you miss the VERY IMPORTANT POINT.


LOVE


STEVEN

( For all that wonder why I often use the caps and large size print )


Ephesians
Chapter 3

12
in whom we have boldness of speech and confidence of access through faith in him.

Acts
Chapter 4
13
Observing the boldness of Peter and John and perceiving them to be uneducated, ordinary men, they were amazed, and they recognized them as the companions of Jesus

29
And now, Lord, take note of their threats, and enable your servants to speak your word with all boldness,

Ziggy, I believe it is ok for you to ask God for whatever you wish. God showers blessings on whomever he wants.

One thing you need to remember if you decide to ask God that question. Don't say it out loud, even in a whisper. Satan is all too happy to counterfeit a response and lead you in the wrong direction. Ask in your heart, that is enough. God knows your heart and your thoughts.

Some questions though: How will you know it is God answering your prayer? What sign will He give?

God is very subtle in daily life. Would you know him if He even showed up to say hello one morning?

Mark 8:11-12 The Pharisees came and began to question Jesus. To test him, they asked him for a sign from heaven. He sighed deeply and said, "Why does this generation ask for a miraculous sign? I tell you the truth, no sign will be given to it."

Matt. 16:4 A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah." Jesus then left them and went away

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Food for thought.

ziggy6 said:

I know this board says Christians only, but I have been on the fence between Christianity and atheism. I WANT to be a believer, but I have so many doubts. For one, I don't sense God. I don't feel his presence, or "see" him, or "hear" him as so many Christians say they have. And so my question is...

If I pray to God to prove to me that he exists, will he? I don't think faith is enough for me. I want a miracle. To hear him or see heaven or something that will leave me with NO DOUBTS. I don't want something where I could say "oh, well that's just a coincidence." If I pray for certainty, is there any chance that I could get it?

I also get so discouraged when I see other people with uncertainty. I have this fear that even people who seem to have so much certainty and faith (people I envy and admire) will eventually stumble and lose faith. Be it later in their lives, or right before they die. It seems this world is too discouraging a place to ever have completely belief of God.

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First prove you exist.

ziggy6 said:

I know this board says Christians only, but I have been on the fence between Christianity and atheism. I WANT to be a believer, but I have so many doubts. For one, I don't sense God. I don't feel his presence, or "see" him, or "hear" him as so many Christians say they have. And so my question is...

If I pray to God to prove to me that he exists, will he? I don't think faith is enough for me. I want a miracle. To hear him or see heaven or something that will leave me with NO DOUBTS. I don't want something where I could say "oh, well that's just a coincidence." If I pray for certainty, is there any chance that I could get it?

I also get so discouraged when I see other people with uncertainty. I have this fear that even people who seem to have so much certainty and faith (people I envy and admire) will eventually stumble and lose faith. Be it later in their lives, or right before they die. It seems this world is too discouraging a place to ever have completely belief of God.

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I see God every single day. I see him when I talk with a young man who used to be incredibly hyper, yet now is one of the smartest kids I know. I see him when I come to this board and see people asking for advice instead of just giving up. I see God in my ultra-liberal campus when I see people taking two and a half hours out of their day to spend some time with kids who need attention at the elementary school. I see God in the ability to hang out with friends and grow in my faith.

God does not need any more physical proof than we already have. We have the Bible, the most historically reliable document in the entire world. We have resources that explain the many alleged contradictions as products of translating the Bible from Hebrew/Aramaic/Greek to English.

The problem isn't in the proof. It's in whether or not you are willing to hope and risk being burned by that hope- except for one thing difference. Even if every single Christian in your life lets you down, God won't. His Word is always there to encourage, and His promises are always there to uplift.

I don't believe you have more information that's needed, I believe you have a choice- to risk hell, or to risk heaven. Risking hell involves less hope, less encouragement, less family, less advice, and less assurance. Risking heaven involves less teetering, less depressing news, and less wondering.

You will have plenty of questions, and there are plenty of answers. All you have to do is know how to look.

There is a current need for Apolgetics, a good site is freechristianteaching .org all with scienctific answers, on evolution, carbon dating, big bang being ripped apart one theory at a time.
The world is not billions of years old!
They get this from carbon dating, they assume that the atmosphere has been the same the entire time, there is a page about carbon dating on the site mentioned.
THE FOLLOWING EXAMPLES DEMONSTRATE THAT THE CARBON DATING MACHINE IS NOT ACCURATE


Living mollusk shells were Carbon dated as being 2,300 years old! Science vol. 141, 1963 p. 634-63.

A freshly killed seal was Carbon dated as having died 1,300 years ago! Antarctic Journal vol. 6 Sept-Oct. 1971 p. 211


Shells from living snails were Carbon Dated as being 27,000 years old! Science Vol. 224, 1984 p. 58-61


One part of the Vollosovitch mammoth was Carbon Dated at 29,500 years old and another part at 44,000 years old. Troy L. Pewe, Quaternary Stratigraphic Nomenclature in Unglaciated Central Alaska, Geological Survey Professional Paper 862 (U.S. Gov. printing office, 1975) p. 30


One part of Dima (a baby frozen mammoth) was Carbon Dated at 40,000 years old, another part was Carbon Dated at 26,000 years old. The wood immediately around the carcass was Carbon Dated at 9-10,000 years old. Troy L. Pewe, Quaternary Stratigraphic Nomenclature in Unglaciated Central Alaska, Geological Survey Professional Paper 862 (U.S. Gov. printing office, 1975) page 30.


The lower leg of the Fairbanks Creek mammoth had a RadioCarbon age of 15,380 radio Carbon years, while its skin and flesh were 21,300 radio Carbon years. Harold E. Anthony, "Natures Deep Freeze," Natural History, Sept. 1949, p. 300, See also: In the Beginning Walt Brown,

The two Colorado Creek, AK mammoths had RadioCarbon ages of 22,850 &#177; 670 and 16,150 &#177; 230 years respectively., Robert M. Thorson and R. Dale Guthrie, "Stratigraphy of the Colorado Creek Mammoth Locality, Alaska," Quaternary Research, Vol. 37, No. 2, March 1992, pp. 214-228, see also: In the Beginning Walt Brown


Living penguins have been Carbon dated as being 8,000 years old.

The above inaccuracies of Carbon Dating demonstrate that Carbon Dating is unreliable for samples of known ages.

So this is the conclusion:

Creatures that we know how old they are = Carbon dating does NOT WORK!
Creatures we don't know the age = We ASSUME the carbon dating is correct despite being wrong on live specimen.

ziggy6-

About 2 years ago I was at the same spot you are now. There is nothing wrong with what you are asking. My advice to you is the same advice I was given:
Find yourself a quiet place, where you can speak freely. Prepare to spend some time there and just start speaking to Papa. Tell Him your feelings and concerns. Pour your heart out and don't hold back.

Then, once you've laid everything out, listen to Him. Open your heart and be prepared to hear from Him.

That's what I did. The next week I accepted Christ.


I hope this helps you in your search. I'll keep you in prayer.