Eternal Life

JohnR7

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Originally posted by David Gould
Scoffing seems like the reverse of kryptonite.

So if we do not scoff, we can weaken all the believers? 

That is true, the more you persecute the church of christ, the stronger it gets. A lot of the weakness has come because it is just to easy to be a christian. They crucified Jesus, they martyred most of the apostles, yet the church just kept on growing and getting stronger and stronger. Another sign that God is with us.
 
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Nathan Poe

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Originally posted by JohnR7
Yes, but we are convinced that Christianity has more to offer than any other religion has to offer.

ok, you're convinced. I'm with you so far.

Only through the Blood sacrifice of Jesus is there eternal life. We have something to offer that no one else has to offer.

Most primative religions practiced ritual sacrifice, both animal and human. Quality over quantity, right?

Our evidence is that people who are on the edge of death can be healed and receive a full recovery.

And this only happens to Christians?

Even people who have died can be raised from the dead. If you know of another religion that can offer that, let me know.

I don't care how many religions can offer that. They can offer the moon, the stars, and the sun. It's what a religion can deliver that makes the difference.

So long as faith in something can give you a feeling of purpose and belongingness, does it matter what you have faith in? 

We have drug addicts that are set free. People are set free from all sorts of bondage, sin & sickness. We have people who come to give us a testimony of having received a healing years ago, and they have been healthy all these years.

Again, this only happens to Christians? No Muslim, Bhuddist, or Atheist has ever been cured of some terrible disease?
 
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Nathan Poe

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That which does not kill me makes me stronger. --Neitzche

Originally posted by JohnR7
That is true, the more you persecute the church of christ, the stronger it gets. A lot of the weakness has come because it is just to easy to be a christian. They crucified Jesus, they martyred most of the apostles, yet the church just kept on growing and getting stronger and stronger. Another sign that God is with us.

Yes, when faced with threats and adversity, the Church survives grows, and adapts in response. If it didn't, it would die out like a fad or cult.

Sounds pretty Darwinian, doesn't it?
 
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Warrior FC: It's the right forum, I am questioning why people would choose to believe theories that offer no eternal life rather than The Creator that does!
This has to be one of the most morally compromised suggestions I've ever seen from a Christian. Should the truth be determined by the person with the biggest bribe? Heck, not even a bribe, but a promise of a bribe! I mean, if I give you my theory which promises eternal life and a hojillion dollars next Tuesday, obviously my theory is the right one, right?
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by Nathan Poe
That which does not kill me makes me stronger. --Neitzche Sounds pretty Darwinian, doesn't it?

I do not know about Darwinism, but Secular Humanism can be very much oriented toward a high degree or standard of excellance. Your more advanced school like MIT and Harvard put a lot of demands on the students. They feel within reason, that the more adversity a student has to overcome, the better they will be educated.
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by ifriit
Should the truth be determined by the person with the biggest bribe? 

Pascals wager is one of the Big arguements that christians use. They reason that christians have everything to gain and nothing to lose. Where non believers have everything to lose and nothing to gain by not being a believer.

Pascal does not really define just who is and who is not a believer though. It is really a arguement based more on: If you believe that you believe, you are saved.

James 2:19-20 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. [20] But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

John 3:21 "But he who practices the truth comes to the light, that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God."

John 8:32  And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

It takes a knowledge of the truth, in order to be saved. Those who walk in darkness, will perish in darkness.


 


 


 
 
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kaotic

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Originally posted by JohnR7
I do not know about Darwinism, but Secular Humanism can be very much oriented toward a high degree or standard of excellance. Your more advanced school like MIT and Harvard put a lot of demands on the students. They feel within reason, that the more adversity a student has to overcome, the better they will be educated.

I wish I could goto Mit, but i can't :(
 
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JohnR7

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And this only happens to Christians?

I have seen a lot of people receive healing from God, becaues He is drawing them and wanting them to know His goodness. God does limit what He will do for people who do not believe.

Healing is the childrens bread. Even under the law, by following the commandments of God, they could have good heath. But as christians under grace we can have divine health.

God will bless us, to the degree that we bless others. If we do good, than God will give good things to us.

 
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by seesaw
I can't pay for the tuition. I went to University of North Carolina for a year, but I couldn't keep paying. :(

You see, you need to learn to live by faith, that God will provide for you.

Matthew 21:22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.

1 John 3:22  And whatever we ask we receive from Him, because we keep His commandments and do those things that are pleasing in His sight.



 
 
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Nathan Poe

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Originally posted by JohnR7

"Originally posted by Nathan Poe
That which does not kill me makes me stronger. --Neitzche Sounds pretty Darwinian, doesn't it? "


I do not know about Darwinism, but Secular Humanism can be very much oriented toward a high degree or standard of excellance. Your more advanced school like MIT and Harvard put a lot of demands on the students. They feel within reason, that the more adversity a student has to overcome, the better they will be educated.

So couldn't we credit the survival of the Church to secualar humanism instead of God?
Also, would it kill you to quote me in context once in a while?

That which does not kill me makes me stronger. --Neitzche

quote:
Originally posted by JohnR7
That is true, the more you persecute the church of christ, the stronger it gets. A lot of the weakness has come because it is just to easy to be a christian. They crucified Jesus, they martyred most of the apostles, yet the church just kept on growing and getting stronger and stronger. Another sign that God is with us.


Yes, when faced with threats and adversity, the Church survives grows, and adapts in response. If it didn't, it would die out like a fad or cult.

Sounds pretty Darwinian, doesn't it?
 
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Nathan Poe

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Originally posted by JohnR7
I have seen a lot of people receive healing from God, becaues He is drawing them and wanting them to know His goodness. God does limit what He will do for people who do not believe.

Why would He do that?

Healing is the childrens bread. Even under the law, by following the commandments of God, they could have good heath. But as christians under grace we can have divine health.

what's the difference, besides "eternal life?"

God will bless us, to the degree that we bless others. If we do good, than God will give good things to us.

Salvation through works? Then why have faith?
 
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Nathan Poe

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Originally posted by seesaw
Heh I have also see a lot of stuff being taken out of context. :(

I don't get it; it's never been that blantant. Didn't JohnR7 know I was going to call him out on that one?
Besides, it's totally not necessary. Don't I p*** people off enough with the things I actually do say?
 
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lucaspa

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Originally posted by Warrior FC
It's the right forum, I am questioning why people would choose to believe theories that offer no eternal life rather than The Creator that does!

False premise.  Evolution says nothing about eternal life.  Biological evolution explains how the diversity of life on the planet came to be.  It says nothing about whether humans have a sould or whether a deity is going to provide a life after physical death.

Once again, you have confused evolution with atheism.  Until you stop doing that, you will wallow in these confusions and errors.
 
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lucaspa

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Originally posted by JohnR7
It depends on if you have Godly intellegence, or if all you have is mans intelligence. When Jesus was born we are told that the shephards came to visit Him & they gave Praise and Glory to God for the things they had seen. The three wise men came, and they proclaimed that Jesus would be king. Simon a man who spent all of his time at the temple, went to see the baby, and he saw the salvation of God. But most people look and all they see is a baby, because they do not know God. Only in knowing our creator can we know that Jesus was sent to save the world.

John, the difference is not in how you view deity, but whether you do. If you notice, all the examples you gave were people who are said to actually have observed Yeshu as a baby.  They observed Yeshu the same way Seesaw observes his cat. 

Now, have you observed Yeshu as a baby?  No, of course not.  Yeshu's birth happened about 1,970 years ago and you weren't born yet.  What happens is that you trust the accounts that you read in the Bible.  But what is the outside evidence that compels everyone to trust those accounts?

Science works only with observations that everyone can have under approximately the same circumstances. We may choose not to make those observations because of time, money, and not having the necessary training, but we could.  There is no way I can possibly observe the baby Yeshu.  You have made a choice to believe the accounts.  Others have made a choice to either believe the accounts are wrong or to doubt them.
 
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lucaspa

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Originally posted by Arnold_Philips
I would say that in less than one hundred years, the atheists will find that evidence they have been asking for. They just have to be a little patient.

LOL!! Talk about belief!!  So instead of believing evidence that is not scientific (theists), you believe evidence that doesn't exist.

And the difference is ... ?
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by lucaspa
What happens is that you trust the accounts that you read in the Bible.  But what is the outside evidence that compels everyone to trust those accounts? 

The canon of scripture is quite a subject all onto itself. There were quite a few books written at the time, but only a few of them were canonized as being reliable. You could perhaps begin with reading what the online Catholic Encyclopedia has to say on the subject, or I am sure there are other resources on the internet.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03274a.htm

If you take someone like King Solomon, it is reported that he wrote 1000 books. (As well as having 700 wives and 300 concubines 1 Kings 11:3) Yet only three of his books were canonized. Even then one of them almost did not make it, because of his referance to a women's breasts.

Song 1:13 A bundle of myrrh is my wellbeloved unto me; he shall lie all night betwixt my breasts.

Scoffers like to play both sides of the street on the issue of canon. If it is to their advantage, they try to say it is not reliable. But when someone like Galileo was not able to present enough evidence to establish his teaching as any more than a theory. Then the scoffers are critical that the process is to strict. They feel that Galileo's theorys should have been endorsed, even though he was not able to prove them at the time.

According to ancient astronomy based on the Aristotle model, it was believed that the sun rotated around the earth. When Galileo invented the telescope, he found that Copernicus theory was correct. Copernicus was not as bold as Galileo, and he did not push it as much as Galileo did.

You are on a roll today, coming up with all sorts of new subjects to talk about. I thought we were going to be destine to have to rehash all the same old debates all over again and again and again.

 


 

 
 
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