People unfairly atack muslims

dnihila said:

Peace LLOJ
Do you see how Islam look at Mary and Jesus
Mary is a Virgin, Jesus is her son who has no father and he wasn't crucified but left up to Heaven to come back at the end of time and notice that he is the only prophet who is alive in Heaven while all of them died on Earth and were taken to Heaven..................

............Finally, would you please LLOJ explain more about the Messiah in Judaism
by giving us more information
Thanks and Bless you

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That would best be left for Orthodox Jews to answer as they are still waiting on their OWN Messiah to come......
And from what know of Islam, they view Paul as a "false apostle" and that is also a hugh stumbling block concerning Christianity and Islam/Judaism both I would say.

http://christianforums.com/showthread.php?t=4410009&highlight=paul
Can Muhammad and Paul be buddies

http://www.scripture4all.org/

2 Corin 3:14 But was hardened/epwrwqh <4456> (5681) the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/veil/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/un-veiled/ana-kaluptomenon <343> (5746) That In Christ it is being-taken-away

LittleLambofJesus said:

That would best be left for Orthodox Jews to answer as they are still waiting on their OWN Messiah to come......
And from what know of Islam, they view Paul as a "false apostle" and that is also a hugh stumbling block concerning Christianity and Islam/Judaism both I would say.

Can Muhammad and Paul be buddies - Christian Forums
Can Muhammad and Paul be buddies

Scripture4all - Greek/Hebrew interlinear Bible software

2 Corin 3:14 But was hardened/epwrwqh <4456> (5681) the minds of them. For until the today day, the same covering/veil/kalumma <2571> upon the reading of the Old Covenant is remaining, no being up-covered/un-veiled/ana-kaluptomenon <343> (5746) That In Christ it is being-taken-away

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But can't you see that
Jews are waiting for the Messiah to come at the end of times
while Christians are waiting for Jesus to come back
and Muslims are waiting for prophet Jesus to come back to kill the anti-christ
The three Holy religions are waiting for the Messiah which is the Arabic word used to indicate Jesus and in English you say Christ and in Hebrow it is Messiah.
So, we all are waiting for the Messiah but the expectations are
a Jewish Messiah for Jews
a Christian Messiah for Christians
a Muslim Messiah for Muslims
But at the end we put the Messiah in a group away from the rest of the world. His return is a huge incedent that should cover the Earth but not only one group of people and that's why Peace is made when he returns. Because everyone will accept him. What do you think?

Lovers of Moses didn't accept Jesus , lovers of Jesus deny Moses and lovers of Muhammed loved all prophets but didn't dare to read the other Holy Books or to accept people of the Book which could of give them the clue long time ago.

The real Messiah doesn't fight faiths but fights sins. The real Messiah doesn't look for fame and wealth but to make Peace and Love. The real Messiah doesn't isolate himself from people to make them divided into groups but will gather them all in the last chance to deserve entering Heaven.

I find most of islam oppressing and controlling of women. I truly feel sorry for the women over in the middle east (especially).

Steelerbred33 said:

I find most of islam oppressing and controlling of women. I truly feel sorry for the women over in the middle east (especially).

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In every society, in every tradition, in every culture their is an opression toward someone.
Like selling and buying people as slaves.
Like married couples having illegal relationships.
Like kidnapping, rape crimes, theft, nude women posters in streets, fake rules to keep your husband from having another forbidden relations like plastic surgeries and more.
Opression is not about not hearing your voice and your opinion but it is also about if your voice and opinion are valuable enough to be heard.
We as Muslim women got over the apperance barrier into the mentality to sympathise with poor people all over the world to the orphans to the handicapped people to sick people to victims of war.
We are not so arrogant to symathize with a lady who is not carrying a chanel bag or a Gucci bag because that's what made the world suffer of sever fatal disasters while people are feeling sorry for someone who is not poor, not mentaly sick and not handicapped.
It seems that you don't know alot about the Middle East.
Beauty is a flower that have a short life but what gives the flower life is the ugly sand, the colorless water and the hot Sun.
I am with what lasts forever more than what lives for a short period of time to turn into memories of regret and sorrow.
African people are no more slaves to anyone but they are still black. And they were black, too. But the harsh human rules enslaved them. Did they take off their skin to be free?
What's inside is more important than the outside.
I know most of the stories of the fat girls in your society who suffred while they don't live in the Middle East but they are opressed by the ones who feel sorry for the people who respect the black, the white, the slim and the fat.
If it makes you feel better to feel sorry for us, we don't have a problem with that.
And Congratulations Chrissy.

dnihila said:

His return is a huge incedent that should cover the Earth but not only one group of people and that's why Peace is made when he returns. Because everyone will accept him. What do you think?

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That was a very good post and I agree with your statement above. That is also exactly what our scriptures say.

May he come soon.

dnihila said:

In every society, in every tradition, in every culture their is an opression toward someone.
Like selling and buying people as slaves.
Like married couples having illegal relationships.
Like kidnapping, rape crimes, theft, nude women posters in streets, fake rules to keep your husband from having another forbidden relations like plastic surgeries and more.
Opression is not about not hearing your voice and your opinion but it is also about if your voice and opinion are valuable enough to be heard.
We as Muslim women got over the apperance barrier into the mentality to sympathise with poor people all over the world to the orphans to the handicapped people to sick people to victims of war.
We are not so arrogant to symathize with a lady who is not carrying a chanel bag or a Gucci bag because that's what made the world suffer of sever fatal disasters while people are feeling sorry for someone who is not poor, not mentaly sick and not handicapped.
It seems that you don't know alot about the Middle East.
Beauty is a flower that have a short life but what gives the flower life is the ugly sand, the colorless water and the hot Sun.
I am with what lasts forever more than what lives for a short period of time to turn into memories of regret and sorrow.
African people are no more slaves to anyone but they are still black. And they were black, too. But the harsh human rules enslaved them. Did they take off their skin to be free?
What's inside is more important than the outside.
I know most of the stories of the fat girls in your society who suffred while they don't live in the Middle East but they are opressed by the ones who feel sorry for the people who respect the black, the white, the slim and the fat.
If it makes you feel better to feel sorry for us, we don't have a problem with that.
And Congratulations Chrissy.

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Thanks for the congrats...I appreciate it.

Recently, Afghanistan has wanted to legalize husbands raping their wives. Women cannot leave the house unattended. Women are severely punished for talking to men. Saudi Arabia doesn't even want women on TV. This is oppression.

I understand that its only natural to defend your country and its rules and ideals. When we are raised in a society, we tend to believe that is the right way of handling things.

canukian said:

A muslim man beheads his wife for divorsing him and the mans friend is worried that people will unfairly get a bad impression of islam, when islamic law prescribes exactly that.SteynOnline - Home go to steynonline for this and more. styen is a top rate writer who describes his work as
'apocaliptic standup'

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I am sure that Islam does not condone this.

Muslims ARE often victims of injustice.

Look at the murderous invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq, the bombing of Pakistan. Look at the occupation of Palestinian land. The mass murder in Chechnya. Repression in Egypt, Uzbekistan. The genocide in Darfur. What happened in Bosnia.

I am not a Muslim or an apologist for Islam. It is wrong on many counts, such as when it denies Jesus' divinity, His death on the cross, His saving grace.

However it does NOT condone spouse murder or terrorism.

We cannot be witnesses to the love of Christ by lying and tarnishing others. It will cause them to turn away from us- and infinitely worse it may cause them to reject the message of the Gospel.

Also about Muslim women ... Culture is different and that is true but no comparison to the "freedom" that women should have in our society as "bad" for them .... This kind of claim is rediculous... Women as men are created equal with free will to chose how to dress how to act etc. Women in Islam have limitation in their God given "free will" and no man should be enslaved by another...the Apostle said "there is no slave or free man no male of female.." there was a point to this that Christ came to give equality in HIM. We are granted our freedome because of HIM..

addition:" Actually Christ reafirmed it .. We were always equal as God bestowed to each of us different roles and tasks but nevertheless "omoplervoi" sharing the "same side" as God created Eve from the same substance. He never intented for Eve to be created lesser than Adam.

canukian said:

A muslim man beheads his wife for divorsing him and the mans friend is worried that people will unfairly get a bad impression of islam, when islamic law prescribes exactly that.SteynOnline - Home go to steynonline for this and more. styen is a top rate writer who describes his work as
'apocaliptic standup'

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Yet you would promptly respond that people like this:
Religious cults and sects, doctrines and practices - John and Carrie Davis

Aren't real Christians right? Should I go and start up an utterly pointless discussion that would resemble this very one about Christianity?

It is odd how religious people continually defend their own view of religion but yet love stories of other religious doing insane and immoral things and then turn it against the other religion itself when in their own religion, they have the same type of crazies.

Steelerbred33 said:

Thanks for the congrats...I appreciate it.

Recently, Afghanistan has wanted to legalize husbands raping their wives. Women cannot leave the house unattended. Women are severely punished for talking to men. Saudi Arabia doesn't even want women on TV. This is oppression.

I understand that its only natural to defend your country and its rules and ideals. When we are raised in a society, we tend to believe that is the right way of handling things.

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1. You are welcome and I wish you both a happy life.
2. Let's compare followers of Islam and people who are called Muslims to books.
have you ever seen two typical copies of two books which belong to two different writers? Although they wrote about the same topic.
People are like books but they are not like copies of books.
People are individuals who follow a certain belief that gives them fixed practices but how do they interpret and apply them. This is the point we are talking about.
Islam, Christianity or Judasim are not factories to produce believers to take one product and blame the factory for the defect in the product.
So, when we talk about a certain situation then we are talking about the people who are involved in it by giving specific judgements instead of generlizing and gathering people in groups like cattles who belong and who don't.
The world is not the one to be blamed for the misconception they made about Islam. The world used the wrong resources to make its judgements.
Just imagine that prophet Muhammed ( Pecae be upon him) told us about the situation 1500 years ago.
The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: " The Children of Israel divided into 72 sects. My community will divide into 73 sects, and all of them will be in the Hellfire save one.”

The people asked him: “And which one will that be

He replied: “The one that follows what I and my Companions are upon right now.”

So, what you see of the crimes made in the name of Islam are in those 72 sects. The title is Islam and Muslims but they will go to Hell for not doing what the Creator and His prophet asked them to do.

and does every sect profess itself to be the 73rd? Does every sect believe they are the ones to reach paradise and the rest fail?

sounds confusing if one is a muslim. No way to be sure.

It seems to me that she points to "interpretation" but the Koran itself contains passages that are by themselves "condeming" and accusing those who are too lukewarm in the faith.... So it can be interpreted any way one wants... It sounds more than confusing to me it sounds like there are peaceful mulsims still there is an overwhelming majority that are "allowed" to proclaim death by sword. And those who do not believe in "by the sword conquering the world and establising Islam" are not effective enough to make a difference. I wonder why is this tolerated by those who are not proclaiming violence?? If Islam is a peaceful religion why all these crimes then? And why they are jutified in Koran? Because they are...

Philothei said:

It seems to me that she points to "interpretation" but the Koran itself contains passages that are by themselves "condeming" and accusing those who are too lukewarm in the faith.... So it can be interpreted any way one wants... It sounds more than confusing to me it sounds like there are peaceful mulsims still there is an overwhelming majority that are "allowed" to proclaim death by sword. And those who do not believe in "by the sword conquering the world and establising Islam" are not effective enough to make a difference. I wonder why is this tolerated by those who are not proclaiming violence?? If Islam is a peaceful religion why all these crimes then? And why they are jutified in Koran? Because they are...

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So does the Bible. I'm not meaning to be rude, but what's your point? I think it shows that religion is a merely subjective experience. Both the hate-filled people and the people of peace get justification for anything they want in religious texts.

I don't understand why the Christian (not meaning you here) will cherry pick verses in the Koran when their scriptures have blood all over them (no pun intended).

I wonder if people were asking the same questions about Christianity centuries ago?

Has Islam been through countless reformations like Christianity has? Christianity has been through countless of changes...makes sense why all forms of Christianity are pretty secular compared to the ancient days. I don't know if Islam has so I wonder if that's why we see things like this coming out still: 'Marital rape' law protesters attacked in Kabul - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

the.Sheepdog said:

and does every sect profess itself to be the 73rd? Does every sect believe they are the ones to reach paradise and the rest fail?

sounds confusing if one is a muslim. No way to be sure.

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It is not confusing at all. And I will tell you why:
1. Any practice or belief in Islam which goes against one verse in the Holy Quran will make you out of the right path which leads to Heaven.
2. If any Muslim stick to one practice and makes it higher than other practices, then he/she is out of the right path.
3. If any Muslim followes a hadieth that goes against any verse of the Holy Quran, then he/she is out.
4. Islam is founded on all the verses of the Holy Quran and the real hadieths by prophet Muhammed ( peace be upon him). And they shouldn't contrast each other.
5. So, the trouble Muslim scientists put Muslims in that they give their judgments on one verse of the Holy Quran. So, their judgement will contrast another verse. That's why it is forbidden to tell people do this and don't do that like fatwas. Because prophet Muhammed ( peace be upon him) did his job perfectly and they are not better than him.
If they really understood the Holy Quran and studied it well, they will remember the verse:
Surah: The Table:
5:3 Prohibited to you are dead animals, blood, the flesh of swine, and that which has been dedicated to other than Allah, and [those animals] killed by strangling or by a violent blow or by a head-long fall or by the goring of horns, and those from which a wild animal has eaten, except what you [are able to] slaughter [before its death], and those which are sacrificed on stone altars, and [prohibited is] that you seek decision through divining arrows. That is grave disobedience. This day those who disbelieve have despaired of [defeating] your religion; so fear them not, but fear Me. This day I have perfected for you your religion and completed My favor upon you and have approved for you Islam as religion. But whoever is forced by severe hunger with no inclination to sin - then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

And here the speaker is not prophet Muhammed, it is the Almighty.
Didn't they read the verse that says:
Surah: The Bees
16:116 And do not say about what your tongues assert of untruth, "This is lawful and this is unlawful," to invent falsehood about Allah. Indeed, those who invent falsehood about Allah will not succeed.

So, if you make the Holy Quran your reliable source of information, you will be on the right path.
Islam is perfect since the times of prophet Muhammed ( peace be upon him) and he was neither Shafie, Hanbally, Maliky or Hanafy. He wasn't even called Sunni or Shiei. He wasn't Sufi or Baha'i. He was called a Muslim.
You will notice that every sect of these sects is based on one aspect or one belief. But Islam is perfect and not based on one practice or one belief.
Read what prophet Muhammed ( peace be upon him ) said:
"I am leaving you on brightness, its night is (as bright) as its day. None would deviate from it except the one who is doomed to perish. Whosoever survives would see many differences. Then it would be incumbent upon you to adhere to my Sunnah and the Sunnah of the righteous and pious caliphs, with which you are familiar. Hold fast to it with your teeth and obedience (to the ruler) is obligatory upon you even if he is an Abyssinian slave. Verily the (true) Believer is like a camel having a (pricking) bridle in its nose. To whichever direction it is driven, it surrenders in submission."

So, what the prophet didn't see, hear or prove at his time will be one of the 72 wrong sects of Islam.

Im_A said:

So does the Bible. I'm not meaning to be rude, but what's your point? I think it shows that religion is a merely subjective experience. Both the hate-filled people and the people of peace get justification for anything they want in religious texts.

I don't understand why the Christian (not meaning you here) will cherry pick verses in the Koran when their scriptures have blood all over them (no pun intended).

I wonder if people were asking the same questions about Christianity centuries ago?

Has Islam been through countless reformations like Christianity has? Christianity has been through countless of changes...makes sense why all forms of Christianity are pretty secular compared to the ancient days. I don't know if Islam has so I wonder if that's why we see things like this coming out still: 'Marital rape' law protesters attacked in Kabul - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

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So.... bringing in the Bible supports Koran being stating what it does? Your thinking is amazingly forgiving of Koran.... still. How come atheists to defend Islam always bring in Christianity is beyond my understanding it never fails to amaze me how" if Christianity is as bad....then Islam is not bad either" works?

Nice que-qua but we are talking about Islam swifting the conversation into Christianity is yet another way to avoid answering the question....

And I am not cherry picking here but the truth of the matter is what it is stating what it does. Comparing it to the Bible is unfair since it is irrelevant what Chrisitians do and believe....

Philothei said:

It seems to me that she points to "interpretation" but the Koran itself contains passages that are by themselves "condeming" and accusing those who are too lukewarm in the faith.... So it can be interpreted any way one wants... It sounds more than confusing to me it sounds like there are peaceful mulsims still there is an overwhelming majority that are "allowed" to proclaim death by sword. And those who do not believe in "by the sword conquering the world and establising Islam" are not effective enough to make a difference. I wonder why is this tolerated by those who are not proclaiming violence?? If Islam is a peaceful religion why all these crimes then? And why they are jutified in Koran? Because they are...

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False dichotomy.

Tu Quoque is a very common fallacy in which one attempts to defend oneself or another from criticism by turning the critique back against the accuser. This is a classic Red Herring since whether the accuser is guilty of the same, or a similar, wrong is irrelevant to the truth of the original charge. However, as a diversionary tactic, Tu Quoque can be very effective, since the accuser is put on the defensive, and frequently feels compelled to defend against the accusation.

And your above post is a red herring if there ever was one. Post #113 still presents a false dichotomy.

Your above post proves one more time the quoque...you are still doing by stating that.. STill denial to deal with the OP...??? How come?