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Arphaxad12

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Hello "Losing" :wave:

Sorry to hear about your inlaws' accident. Hopefully no one was seriously hurt.

Here's the answer to your question right from the bible:
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Genesis 1:26-28 (Amplified version):

26 God said, Let Us [Father, Son, and Holy Spirit] make mankind in Our image, after Our likeness, and let them have complete authority over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, the [tame] beasts, and over all of the earth, and over everything that creeps upon the earth.


27 So God created man in His own image, in the image and likeness of God He created him; male and female He created them.

28 And God blessed them and said to them, Be fruitful, multiply, and fill the earth,
and subdue it [using all its vast resources in the service of God and man]; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, the birds of the air, and over every living creature that moves upon the earth. (including yourselves).

(underlines, parentheses and color are my own).
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So the answer to your question is that God created Man in His own image, which would naturally include free choice and sovereignty over oneself. One of the hardest things for believers to comprehend is that the Lord, although merciful, kind and loving, is not the "Master Puppeteer." He allows all men to exercise their own free choice over their own lives. Otherwise we would not be responsible to accept salvation. We simply wouldn't need it!


When Jesus was asked why certain bad things happened to some people of His time, he answered:
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Luke 13:1-5 (KJV):

1There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
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Unless you understand where Jesus is coming from, this is a tough answer to comprehend.

Jesus lived His life here on Earth with His Father's will constantly in his thoughts and actions. Let's face it, who do we know that does that? I suspect if we actually followed His example, we'd have the same immunity from all harm that He had.

And when Jesus said: "Ye shall likewise perish," He was talking about PHYSICAL death. In His mind His mission was to not only save Men from spiritual death, but also to save men from PHYSICAL death. But not to worry, Jesus promised he would resurrect all believers AGAIN in the Last Day:
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John 6:39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. (underline and color are my own).
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What Jesus is saying is that all believers have already received a spiritual "first resurrection" (New Birth) when they received their salvation, and that after they die, He will resurrect them a second time, only this time physically when He returns.

Even the Apostle Paul had trouble walking in the Lord's protection. He was told many times by the Lord to comcentrate his ministry primarily on the non-Jews.

But unfortunately for him he basically followed his own will and really suffered for it at the hands of his beloved Jewish brethren, many of whom had solemnly sworn not to eat or drink until they had killed him.

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
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Opti

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Similarly, a 'why...' anecdote.

Some friends of our family who are Catholics lit a candle and put it in the window one Christmas Eve before going to mass.

The candle was too close to a curtain and their home burned while they were in church.

Things like this must really rock a person's faith though I always admire how people with faith can reconcile events like this.
 
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Arphaxad12

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Hi Opti! :wave:

Faith is only disturbed by adversity if you expect God to control all things.

As I said before: WE, not God, are responsible for ourselves and our own choices. Most folks don't have a correct sense of responsibility when it comes to the Lord. There is a STRONG tendency to blame God for our frequent stupid decisions, like placing a candle too close to a curtain and then leaving it unattended. C'mon, give us a break! :doh:

This really confirms my faithlessness in Man! :thumbsup:

Best Blessings,
"Arph"
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Opti

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I have to be honest, I don't know to what degree God does or doesn't have control.
I appreciate that we have to be responsible for our own actions but I did think that God was all seeing and all knowing so when those who *do* love Him make the sort of mistake that might burn their house down on Christmas eve while they are worshipping Him it seems to me that it would be nice if He 'had their back'.

It's just that thing where one struggles to reconcile things when good, God fearing people suffer while they are trying to do what is right it makes for confusion.
 
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trustgod

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WOW! Rediculous. Why do you all assume that this happened for any reason other than that the roads were wet and oily and they had cheap tires?
Um, you were the one who asked what God had to do with it. Sounds like you've figured it out and now can conclude that God had nothing to do with it?


Why does it have to be part of some great and uncomprehendable plan?
Maybe it isn't. You're probably right -- just bad tires.

The fact that they were driving to church on Easter Sunday is completely irrelevent.
Funny, the way you asked the question made it sound like the fact it occurred on Easter was significant.
 
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Arphaxad12

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Hi Opti! :wave:

Did those folks whose house burned down have full-coverage insurance? Sometimes such apparently bad events turn out to be a blessing, especially if no one was injured. In my short 69 years I have had to make numerous insurance claims due to wind damage, flooding, tornado, etc. And most often I've wound up way ahead of where I was before the "unfortunate event." "All things work together for good to those who love God and are called according to HIS purpose."

By the way, believers frequently bring up Job in their quest to make God responsible for their own mistakes. But seldom do they understand that God said to Satan: "LOOK, he is (already) in your hand." (parentheses, size and color emphases are my own).

The fact is that Job's terrible attitudes toward the Lord and overblown assessment of his own righteousness put him in the miserable condition he endured. In fact, even though he openly acknowledged that God could do all things, he never even once asked the Lord to deliver and heal him ftom his misery.:o

However, he certainly wasn't bashful in complaining to his friends about what he perceived as God's unfairness in failing to recognize his "exceedingly wonderful righteousness." Here are a just a few examples of Job's incredibly pompous estimation of his own goodness:
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Job 29:2-25 Oh that I were as [in] months past, as [in] the days [when] God preserved me;
3 When his candle shined upon my head, [and when] by his light I walked [through] darkness;
4 As I was in the days of my youth, when the secret of God [was] upon my tabernacle;
5 When the Almighty [was] yet with me, [when] my children [were] about me;
6 When I washed my steps with butter, and the rock poured me out rivers of oil;
7 When I went out to the gate through the city, [when] I prepared my seat in the street!
8 The young men saw me, and hid themselves: and the aged arose, [and] stood up.
9 The princes refrained talking, and laid [their] hand on their mouth.
10 The nobles held their peace, and their tongue cleaved to the roof of their mouth.

11 When the ear heard [me], then it blessed me; and when the eye saw [me], it gave witness to me:
12 Because I delivered the poor that cried, and the fatherless, and [him that had] none to help him.
13 The blessing of him that was ready to perish came upon me: and I caused the widow's heart to sing for joy.

14 I put on righteousness, and it clothed me: my judgment [was] as a robe and a diadem.
15 I was eyes to the blind, and feet [was] I to the lame.

16 I [was] a father to the poor: and the cause [which] I knew not I searched out.
17 And I brake the jaws of the wicked, and plucked the spoil out of his teeth.


18 Then I said, I shall die in my nest, and I shall multiply [my] days as the sand.
19 My root [was] spread out by the waters, and the dew lay all night upon my branch.
20 My glory [was] fresh in me, and my bow was renewed in my hand.

21 Unto me [men] gave ear, and waited, and kept silence at my counsel.
22 After my words they spake not again; and my speech dropped upon them.
23 And they waited for me as for the rain; and they opened their mouth wide [as] for the latter rain.

24 [If] I laughed on them, they believed [it] not; and the light of my countenance they cast not down.
25 I chose out their way, and sat chief, and dwelt as a king in the army, as one [that] comforteth the mourners.

Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he [was] righteous in his own eyes.

(underlines, parentheses and color are my own).
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Here's what Elihu (God's representitive) had to say about Job's lavish self-praise:
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Job 34:1-12 Furthermore Elihu answered and said,
2 Hear my words, O ye wise [men]; and give ear unto me, ye that have knowledge.

3 For the ear trieth words, as the mouth tasteth meat.
4 Let us choose to us judgment: let us know among ourselves what [is] good.

5 For Job hath said, I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.
6 Should I lie against my (own) right? my wound [is] incurable without transgression.

7 What man [is] like Job, [who] drinketh up scorning like water?
8 Which goeth in company with the workers of iniquity, and walketh with wicked men.
9 For he hath said, It profiteth a man nothing that he should delight himself with God
.

10 Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, [that he should do] wickedness; and [from] the Almighty, [that he should commit] iniquity.

11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to [his] ways.

12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

Job 34:35-37 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words [were] without wisdom.
36 My desire [is that] Job may be tried unto the end because of [his] answers for wicked men.
37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth [his hands] among us, and multiplieth his words against God.

Job 35:1-8 Elihu spake moreover, and said,

2 Thinkest thou this to be right, [that] thou saidst, My righteousness [is] more than God's?
3 For thou saidst, What advantage will it be unto thee? [and], What profit shall I have, [if I be cleansed] from my sin?

4 I will answer thee, and thy companions with thee.
5 Look unto the heavens, and see; and behold the clouds [which] are higher than thou.
6 If thou sinnest, what doest thou against him? or [if] thy transgressions be multiplied, what doest thou unto him?

7 If thou be righteous, what givest thou him? or what receiveth he of thine hand?
8 Thy wickedness [may hurt] a man as thou [art]; and thy righteousness [may profit] the son of man.

James 1:13-15 Let no one going through a trial say that God is putting them through that trial. Because God cannot be put through any trial by evil, neither does He put any man through any trials by evil.

14 But every man brings on his own trials when he abandons reason and responds to his own proud desires.
15 Then as he implements those thoughtless, distorted, counterfeit desires, the result is active rebellion against God. And as that active rebellion continues, it brings forth death.

Jam 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy. (underlines, parentheses and color are my own).
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So Job learned to sing a new song to the Lord which no mere man except the redeemed can learn:clap: :
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Psa 40:3 And he hath put a new song in my mouth, [even] praise unto our God: many shall see [it], and fear, and shall trust in the LORD.
Psa 96:1 O sing unto the LORD a new song: sing unto the LORD, all the earth.
Psa 98:1 [[A Psalm.]] O sing unto the LORD a new song; for he hath done marvellous things: his right hand, and his holy arm, hath gotten him the victory.
Psa 144:9 I will sing a new song unto thee, O God: upon a psaltery [and] an instrument of ten strings will I sing praises unto thee.
Psa 149:1 Praise ye the LORD. Sing unto the LORD a new song, [and] his praise in the congregation of saints.
Isa 42:10 Sing unto the LORD a new song, [and] his praise from the end of the earth, ye that go down to the sea, and all that is therein; the isles, and the inhabitants thereof. (underlines and color are my own).
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Best Blessings,
"Arph"
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ffreds

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Um, you were the one who asked what God had to do with it. Sounds like you've figured it out and now can conclude that God had nothing to do with it?


Maybe it isn't. You're probably right -- just bad tires.

Funny, the way you asked the question made it sound like the fact it occurred on Easter was significant.

Exactly.
 
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