Question for Muslim posters

Futuwwa said:

Considering what disagreement there is among Christians what exactly is meant by trinity or how it works, I wouldn't take any sweat about the Quran "misrepresenting" it.

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So you confirm the Qur'an misrepresents... it is a fabrication perhaps.

TG123 said:

Interesting view. Let me ask you though, has Muhammad ever said that "I and Allah are one"? Or did he ever say "whoever has seen me has seen God"? Moses, Abraham and Noah did not either.

The Bible states that Jesus died for our sins, rose from the dead, and will judge us. No other such claim is made for any other prophet.

The Gospel of John is one of the books of the Bible, and has always been accepted by Christians, whether you see it as "mystical" or not. Jesus' divinity was accepted by early Christians, as early church writings from the first century show.


Whether or not Judaism and Islam consider the Trinity teaching to be "plausible" is not the issue. The issue is whether the Quran, which states about itself that it contains no error and goes on to add that if one were to find an error one can disprove all of it, is correct about the Trinity doctrine. It is not.
There is a difference between believing that there is one God who exists in three beings and in believing in three gods. The Quran claims that the Trinity is a belief in three gods. That is a false teaching. The Quran is wrong on this issue. Plain and simple.

BTW, unlike Judaism or Islam (as you yourself called it) Christianity is not a semitic faith. It is not for just a certain ethnicity or race, the Gospel is for everyone. Jesus came to earth and died for everyone. Anyone can put their faith in Him and be saved.

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Yes, Jesus is for everyone . Christianity is not an exclusive club.

The sura quotes of the Koran are correct translations from the Arabic to the english where it actually confirms Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. I am christian ministering to muslims... read the quote carefully and determine for yourself... I am simply quoting the Koran correctly.

TG123 said:

The Quran states that blasphemers say that "Allah is one of three in a Trinity". This says that the Trinity teaches about 3 beings, one of whom is Allah.

That is not true. The Trinity doctrine teaches that there is one God in three beings, not that there are three beings and that one of them is God.

The Quran did not come up with a definition of the Trinity. It distorted the original one and then condemned the distortion.

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allah in islam is the same "father" referenced to trinity , isn't trinity refere to father , son and holy ghost ? which means accoeding to your defination that there is one God in three being : father/allah , son , holy ghost

islam teach that there is one God in one being : allah/father

TG123 said:

The Gospel of John is one of the books of the Bible, and has always been accepted by Christians, whether you see it as "mystical" or not. Jesus' divinity was accepted by early Christians, as early church writings from the first century show.

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Really? Which writings? Link too.

There is a difference between believing that there is one God who exists in three beings and in believing in three gods. The Quran claims that the Trinity is a belief in three gods. That is a false teaching. The Quran is wrong on this issue. Plain and simple.

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You are aware that in the Bible, when written in Arabic, God the Father is called Allah?

BTW, unlike Judaism or Islam (as you yourself called it) Christianity is not a semitic faith. It is not for just a certain ethnicity or race, the Gospel is for everyone. Jesus came to earth and died for everyone. Anyone can put their faith in Him and be saved.

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Actually Christianity was a Semitic faith at its genesis. Christianity originated in the Semitic culture and Jesus was "a marginal Jew" as John P. Meier put it. In order to understand Christianity you have to understand the Semitic culture that gave birth to it. Most Christians fail to realize this. The transition from Semitic faith to Greek faith culminated in Nicaea, where non-Semitic philosophical principles were ratified as theological truths. The sad fact is these truths were completely alien to the culture that gave rise to the faith.

The Trinity is one of the philosophical insertions. The Koran does not mix up the philosophy. The philosophy itself is inconsistent.

ERice2nd said:

Yes, Jesus is for everyone . Christianity is not an exclusive club.

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You seem to not understand what the phrase "a semitic faith" means. It means the faith emerged in a Semitic context, and the culture and mores of the time are important aspects to understanding the faith.

TG123 said:

Trinity doctrine = one God existing in three beings.

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That might be what you think, but it's not like every Christian everywhere has been in uniform agreement of what the doctrine exactly states, neither pre nor post Nicaea. Heck, disagreement between the internal relations of the constituent parts of the Trinity was one of the causes of the breakup of the Church!

TG123 said:

Quran claims that Trinity doctrine = belief in three gods and that God is one them.

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Nope. It curses those who claim God to be "the third of three", not specifying that it talks about separate gods.

TG123 said:

The Quran misrepresents the Trinity doctrine.

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What "should" it have said, then? Something along the lines of "Cursed are all those who do not acknowledge the absolute unity of God, whether by claiming divinity for a prophet, or by claiming God to be a compound of spiritual entities which may or may not have an internal hierarchy or other working relationship, or by claiming that God keeps morphing between different spiritual forms according to his purposes"?

The purpose of those verses is not to define a particular religious doctrine, but condemn those who compromize the absolute unity of God. The context does not require a lawyer-proof definition of trinity to make the intended point, and using the lack of such to prove a point about the Quran being in error is the height of taking verses out of context.

SanFrank said:

The sura quotes of the Koran are correct translations from the Arabic to the english where it actually confirms Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection. I am christian ministering to muslims... read the quote carefully and determine for yourself... I am simply quoting the Koran correctly.

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And despite not knowing ancient Arabic, I've been able to prove you wrong by reductio ad absurdum in the past. Do you have any idea of how silly you look?

Now that you mentioned it, no, Allah is not described in fatherly terms anywhere in the Quran.

TG123 said:

Fair enough, thank you for sharing Islam's view of God with me. I didn't know that Muslims call God "The Father", doesn't the Quran say that Allah has no sons?

Your definition is almost correct, except that Father, Son, Holy Spirit = Allah (God).

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no , we don't call God father , as i said our God allah is the same father referenced to trinity .
i just trying to find common languge , when jesus prayed to father and cried to him , when jesus said " my father who sent me " , when jesus asked his follower to worship the father in heavin
we muslims understand the father in culture of jews to be the same allah in our culture

Futuwwa said:

And despite not knowing ancient Arabic, I've been able to prove you wrong by reductio ad absurdum in the past. Do you have any idea of how silly you look?

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Where is a moderator now....

I have caused many Muslims to turn to Christ (as well as confused Christians who were lied to by fake copies found in stores today) and all through the correct translation of the Koran... why do you keep yourself at bay.

TG123 said:

OK, I see you want to use some common terminology. I do that as well, referring to God as Allah when I talk with Muslim and Arabic Christian friends.

In a way, you are correct when you see Allah as the Father. Jesus prayed to the Father and told His followers to worship the Father in Heaven. So yes, the Father is Allah. But Issa and the Holy Spirit are also Allah.

Christians believe that Allah revealed Himself in three forms- the form of Jesus, the form of the Father, the form of the Holy Spirit.

In the Gospels, Jesus too was worshipped by people. Thomas fell at his feet and worshipped him after his doubts about His resurrection were gone.

Also, remember that calling God "Father" was not alright in Jewish culture. One of the reasons Jesus was crucified was for calling God His Father and for saying He is the Son of God.

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Please...there is a distinction between "allah" and the G*d of the Bible... they are not the same.

You are trying to convince muslims that are using the same ID... who knows how many are using the same avatars?... it is probably a classroom type setting... one minute you think you are writing to one person but the next minute it is someone else.

The authors of the Koran; on copying the book of Revelations and the gospels into the Arabic while adding other points, confused the trinity saying it is composed of "allah", Mary and Jesus... the error of all errors.

They also confused the Spirit with an angel...
They also confused the crucifixion with non-crucifixion... the error that keeps them behind and outside of true salvation and everlasting life. God bless these... my enemies.

TG123 said:

OK, I see you want to use some common terminology. I do that as well, referring to God as Allah when I talk with Muslim and Arabic Christian friends.

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it's good to find common language
in islam : one God = allah/father
in trinity: one God = father , jesus , holy spirit
which means that you made allah/father third of three , so literally there are no faults in quran

In a way, you are correct when you see Allah as the Father. Jesus prayed to the Father and told His followers to worship the Father in Heaven. So yes, the Father is Allah. But Issa and the Holy Spirit are also Allah.
Christians believe that Allah revealed Himself in three forms- the form of Jesus, the form of the Father, the form of the Holy Spirit.
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that's in your beliefs , and that's not our subject

Also, remember that calling God "Father" was not alright in Jewish culture. One of the reasons Jesus was crucified was for calling God His Father and for saying He is the Son of God.

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but in old testament , father is used refering to the God , and son either used refering to his prophets