Hero worship among P/C's

probinson said:

The King James Version is one of the only translations in which Romans 16:17 uses the word "mark". This does not mean put a literal mark on people, or to sit around and gossip about all the wrong things they've done under the guise of "marking" them as divisive.

Some other translations say, take note of, keep a sharp eye out for, be aware of, be on your guard... IOW, it's simply saying to be aware of those that cause divisions, and keep away from them.

Good advice.

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probinson said:

I'm seeing a trend forming. There is a group that is promoting self-inspection, and there is another group that is increasingly pointing the finger at everyone else. It's almost as if a line is being drawn, and it's a line that crosses all denominational and cultural lines.

I'm with you. The division I cause is of much greater concern to me than what anyone else is doing, because it is something that I have control of and can change.

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Yes! I cannot control anyone else but I can control me. That is what we should be teaching.

Jimbeaux said:

Of course.

But is it “gossiping” if I tell someone I admire such-and-such a preacher and they tell me something that that person has said or published that may be, or they feel may be, heterodox to what they understand is “sound doctrine?” How else would I know “to keep away from them” unless I am told?

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God's speaking to us all, today, right now. If we'll listen to Him, He can tell us who to keep away from far better than anyone else.

Jimbeaux said:

Of course.

But is it “gossiping” if I tell someone I admire such-and-such a preacher and they tell me something that that person has said or published that may be, or they feel may be, heterodox to what they understand is “sound doctrine?” How else would I know “to keep away from them” unless I am told?

~Jim

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you..​

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We're not suppose to tell others "who" they should keep away from. We're to teach them how to know for themselves what doctrines and practices are not from God's Word. Give them the tools they need to do their own studying and investigating so that they may decide for themselves who to follow or not follow.

It is unwise to base our decisions on what "others" say instead of what we have investigated for ourselves. I have a very dear friend who when we first met (at the religious organization we both worked for) had several people tell her "things" about me. They kept warning her that I was not a good person to get involved with. They based their "warnings on things they thought they knew but really did not". In her own words, she says, "fortunately I did not listen to them, you are the best friend I've ever had. God has blessed me with you as my friend".

The harm done by speech is even worse than the harm done by stealing or by cheating someone financially: money lost can be repaid, but the harm done by speech can never be repaired. There is a tale that vividly illustrates the danger of improper speech: A man went about the community telling malicious lies about the teacher. Later, he realized the wrong he had done, and began to feel remorse. He went to the teacher and begged his forgiveness, saying he would do anything he could to make amends. The teacher told the man, "Take a feather pillow, cut it open, and scatter the feathers to the winds." The man thought this was a strange request, but it was a simple enough task, and he did it gladly. When he returned to tell the teacher that he had done it, the teacher said, "Now, go and gather the feathers. Because you can no more make amends for the damage your words have done than you can recollect the feathers."

We may not mean to repeat something that is false about someone else but in the event that we do we cannot take it all back.

SpiritPsalmist said:

We're not suppose to tell others "who" they should keep away from. We're to teach them how to know for themselves what doctrines and practices are not from God's Word. Give them the tools they need to do their own studying and investigating so that they may decide for themselves who to follow or not follow.

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Speaking of "hero worship"...

When we think it's our job to inform others who they should or shouldn't follow, we've set ourselves up as that person's "hero" (for lack of a better word) and taken the place of the Holy Spirit in their lives. IOW, they begin to put more weight on what we think or say than on what God says.

Even with my close friends and family, if they ask me my opinion on someone, I give it to them with the disclaimer that they should check things out for themselves and make their own decisions. That way, I don't become anyone's "hero".

Jimbeaux said:

We’re not? Didn’t Paul say, “Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them” (Rom. 16.17) ?

Are you suggesting that Paul was wrong in saying this?

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As was already addressed in an earlier post, Paul says nothing about telling others who they should avoid. He says that we should take note of, keep a sharp eye out for, be aware of, be on your guard... and avoid them. Nothing in there about telling others who to avoid.

Are you suggesting that God is unable to show each of us who we should avoid?

Jimbeaux said:

Well, as usual, another thread has taken a left turn.

What I really want to know is do you think we make a mistake by venerating people too highly.

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There is no left turn to your thread.

I am talking about people "worshiping" you and I. When people rely on us too much to tell them who they should listen to, what they should believe, who they should avoid, etc., and we do nothing to discourage this by instructing them to hear God for themselves, we become a "hero" to them and they begin to value us too highly.

Do I think that's a mistake? Yes, I do.

Oh well, another posting made in vain!

Jimbeaux said:

We’re not? Didn’t Paul say, “Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them” (Rom. 16.17) ?

Are you suggesting that Paul was wrong in saying this?

But I do agree that it is not our place to tell people what to believe but I do not believe it is wrong for us to call people’s attention to bad teaching or immoral behavior, especially among those perceived a leaders. In fact, I think it is our duty. But in the final anaysis, people will believe who and what they want.

~Jim

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you..​

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Are you suggesting that Paul handed out a list of names with all the people they should avoid?? Being the good Jew that he was, that is HIGHLY unlikely. He would have call that lashon ha ra (evil tongue), and it includes good or bad statements made about others, whether it's true or not. James wrote a whole book on that subject, and I'm sure Paul was in agreement with him.

Jimbeaux said:

Well, as usual, another thread has taken a left turn.

What I really want to know is do you think we make a mistake by venerating people too highly. It seems that the Apostle warned of this in 1 Cor. 1 …

10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought. 11 My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. 12 What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?
​

~Jim

I can explain it to you, but I can't understand it for you..​

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If someone is relying on another individual to tell them what to think and feel and who to follow and not follow then yes, that person(s) is venerating the individual who they are depending on and they are making a mistake. There is no left turn in my answer, I have answered specifically your question.

Quick! Someone call Bonnie Tyler to sing our theme song!

. . . I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life. . .

Jimbeaux said:

Well, as usual, another thread has taken a left turn.

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Must be too many NASCAR fans on the forum. . .

msbojingles said:

Quick! Someone call Bonnie Tyler to sing our theme song!

. . . I need a hero
I’m holding out for a hero ‘til the morning light
He’s gotta be sure
And it’s gotta be soon
And he’s gotta be larger than life. . .

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YouTube - holding out for a hero Bonnie Tyler

I have only read the title of the thread and am addressing that only. I will go back and read what Jimbeaux had to say and the rest of you.

Clearly hero worship is more prominent among P/Cs than any other denomination, in my opinion. Here is what I am basing it on...

Working with the ministerium and various congregations in the area, you never hear the people speak in the manner P/Cs do about their so called "spiritual giants."

Recently I have been on patrol with several from different congregations in town. There are CM &A, Lutheran, Baptist, nondenomination, catholics, United Methodists and P/C's. Before our patrol last night, we had a meeting to iron out some kinks in our kick off with the Senator, and other dignitaries. Well when the meeting was over, we tend to go and have our coffee and set and chill and usually enter spiritual discussions. The no. 1 person who constantly gets mentioned is Joyce Meyers by all denominations but in context with the conversation the majority are speaking of how her books helped them with dealing with past abuses, self-control, and other self-help issues. Then it is all about how God helped them once they realized.

Then we always hear from one individual all about one specific individual in the P/C circle and how he always says this, we must do that and it is so sickening. Actually one of the guys, who is a preacher, that I work with at the youth center even has this sickening adoration for this P/C tele-evangelist.

My CM & A friend is the one who has a way of pointing the conversation right back to GOD. She does a fantastic job in doing that. Then we have a few that have a great respect for their pastors and the sermons they hear but they respectfully disagree on some issues and so we discuss what and why's. Me, I am so busy trying to be right that I don't point to denominations, God, or P/C's. I just end up in the middle of a discussion and if I disagree then I spout off. If I agree, then I reinforce why I agree with the topic. I neither point the way to God nor point away from God, I just take a stand on the issue. Yes shame on me.

P.S. Speaking from experience from being in many denominations, I was more guilty of hero worship in my P/C time than any other. What made it different is because they sold their ideas better than any of the others and then when they fell then I got rid of the hero worship and have utter disgust and watch my p's and q's and try not to put any man on a pedestal. I ABSOLUTELY never want to go through the pain again of realizing I didn't have GOD but some man's ideas and his relationship instead of my own. That's all I am going to say besides I am too busy to get into too deep of a discussion.