Full, All out, NO HOLDS BARRED... Eternal Security Discussion!

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the.Sheepdog

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I think some people mistake losing salvation with being out of fellowship with God.

You cannot lose your salvation. That is a gift of God. You did nothing to deserve it and cannot lose it. You CAN be out of fellowship with God because of sin. Once you repent that sin, as Paul would say, you are back in fellowship.

Loss of fellowship is not loss of salvation. No one is capable of a sin free life in their own power. Forget it. If you are asved you have a blessed assurance of a place in heaven!
 
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lismore

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I think some people mistake losing salvation with being out of fellowship with God.

You cannot lose your salvation. That is a gift of God. You did nothing to deserve it and cannot lose it. You CAN be out of fellowship with God because of sin. Once you repent that sin, as Paul would say, you are back in fellowship.

Loss of fellowship is not loss of salvation. No one is capable of a sin free life in their own power. Forget it. If you are asved you have a blessed assurance of a place in heaven!

:amen:

And when someone goes out of fellowship with God its like the parable of the lost sheep. The good shepherd leaves the 99 and goes over hill and dale to find that one little lost sheep. He finds it and brings it home. The good shepherd cares for his sheep! Salvation is not all about the sheep, its all about the good shepherd.

But you'd know all about that, being a sheepdog!

God Bless You:)
 
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T

TheBloodOfJesus

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I think some people mistake losing salvation with being out of fellowship with God.

You cannot lose your salvation. That is a gift of God. You did nothing to deserve it and cannot lose it. You CAN be out of fellowship with God because of sin. Once you repent that sin, as Paul would say, you are back in fellowship.

Loss of fellowship is not loss of salvation...
This I agree with. Fellowship obtains "table rights" for the believers.
It is entirely possible to be out of fellowship with the Father and the relationship still be intact.

As far as not being able to live sinless... I do believe He has given us all the tools to walk without sin. We may not be successful due to ignorance or weakness or whatever. But I do believe He has given us the tools.
peace
 
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JEBrady

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I think some people mistake losing salvation with being out of fellowship with God.

You cannot lose your salvation. That is a gift of God. You did nothing to deserve it and cannot lose it. You CAN be out of fellowship with God because of sin. Once you repent that sin, as Paul would say, you are back in fellowship.

Loss of fellowship is not loss of salvation. No one is capable of a sin free life in their own power. Forget it. If you are asved you have a blessed assurance of a place in heaven!

Being deserving or not of salvation has no bearing on whether or not it can be gained or lost, but whether or not one has to do something to get it.

Question- why do you believe sin puts you out of fellowship with God (need scripture)? What does being out of fellowship mean, exactly, and what constitutes the nature of being in fellowship with God?
Another Question- what does the Bible say that sin does in the life of a Christian? (Again, looking for scriptural answer).
 
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lismore

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Being deserving or not of salvation has no bearing on whether or not it can be gained or lost, but whether or not one has to do something to get it.

Well if you cant do anything to earn a free gift, what can you do to loose it? Romans 11:29 says that God's gift and his call cannot be taken back.

Question- why do you believe sin puts you out of fellowship with God (need scripture)? What does being out of fellowship mean, exactly, and what constitutes the nature of being in fellowship with God?
Another Question- what does the Bible say that sin does in the life of a Christian? (Again, looking for scriptural answer).

Psalm 66:18 If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;
19 but God has surely listened
and heard my voice in prayer.

:)
 
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JEBrady

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Psalm 66:18 If I had cherished sin in my heart,
the Lord would not have listened;
19 but God has surely listened
and heard my voice in prayer.

:)[/quote]

Thanks for your input, Lis.

Well if you cant do anything to earn a free gift, what can you do to loose it? Romans 11:29 says that God's gift and his call cannot be taken back.

I'll expand. I might have been too brief or unclear.

Sheepdog's premise is that if you don't deserve salvation you can't lose it. I said it has nothing to do with whether you deserve it or not. It's a question of if you had anything to do to get it. You came in taking that to mean in the sense of earning it, but no, I don't mean that. We all know we didn't earn it, just as we don't deserve it. But either:
1. you believe in universal salvation
2. you believe you had nothing to do with getting saved, God just predetermined ya to be saved
3. you made a decision to receive Christ

I subscribe to 3. Scripture says, "whosoever will", and I did. It was a conscious decision made under the drawing of the Lord by His Spirit. So, my statement is this:
The basis for making a statement with respect to whether you can lose your salvation has to do with whether you had anything to do with getting it to begin with, not on whether or not salvation was deserved or not.

Based on that, both of your arguments are beside the point. It's a matter of whether you had anything to do with getting saved. Not a matter of whether you deserved salvation. Not a matter of whether you earned salvation or not. Just a matter of whether you had anything to do with it at all.

I believe you do. You made a decision. That was the first in a series of decisions that make up the determination of the rest of your life, IMO. Now, I would have no common ground with anyone who believed in universal salvation or in salvation that has no requirement on one's own part- simply because the word says it's for whosoever will.
 
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Trish1947

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I believe we are saved as much as the power of God is,
to save us. It just takes us most of our lives to realize Gods free
gift of salvation, is so much more powerful, than our power to earn it.
I don't believe anyone that accepted it as a free gift, loses it. What
we lose sight of is how we accepted it in the beginning. A free gift.
That's our doing not His. He hasn't forgotten.
 
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JEBrady

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Yes, it's a free gift, but it is not without requirements. There has always been the requirement to repent and turn from wickedness.

6(I) He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who(J) by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seeking[a] and(K) do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9There will be tribulation and distress(L) for every human being who does evil, the Jew(M) first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and(N) peace for everyone who does good,(O) the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For(P) God shows no partiality.

What we strive for is not to earn our salvation, but to please Father in obedience to His word.
 
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