YES or NO: Do The 10 Commandments Still Apply To Us Today? (2)

Love is the commandment of God now.. For those whom are born again have the Love of God shed abroad in their heart by the Holy Spirit. This is why we are to be continually filled with the Spirit of God. For we are to walk by the Spirit. The fruits of the Spirit are not law keeping but are as written,.
Gal 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is: love, joy, peace, long-suffering, kindness, goodness, faith,
Gal 5:23 meekness, self-control. Against such things there is not a law.
Gal 5:24 But the ones belonging to Christ crucified the flesh with its passions and lusts.
Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
Gal 5:26 Let us not become vainglorious, provoking one another, envying one another.

Jesus said that we shall know them by their fruit and not by those who are keeping of the 10

MamaZ said:

The 10 commandments are just the sum of what was put on the outside of the ark. Both binding to the Jewish nation. If you are going to keep the 10 you will need to keep the fullness of the 10 and that is put on the outside of the ark in full explanation as to what it means to keep the 10.

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Paul advised us that the LAW is Holy, Righteous and Spiritual. As such they are FULLY APPLICABLE and FULLY in force and effect, yes even for 'believers.' And they are so 'because' they are GODS WORDS.

Paul also told us that the Law was meant to shut every mouth and to make the WHOLE WORLD guilty before God. Presumably you have a mouth and are a part of the world?

You preach what you do not know. The law is the OC and not the NC.. You cannot put old wine into new wineskins or else it will break.. For the new Wine is of the Spirit.. Not of the Law.

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It is sold everyday in the pews that 'christians' are not 'under the Law.' And that is a basic LIE. The reason 'christians' SHUN the Law is because the instant they pick it up they PROVE the presence of sin indwelling them. And those who pick up the Law and think they are 'performing it perfectly' are even MORE deceived.

The FACT remains that Jesus said MAN WILL LIVE BY EVERY WORD OF GOD...and that automatically INCLUDES 'the Law.'

MamaZ said:

The 10 commandments are just the sum of what was put on the outside of the ark. Both binding to the Jewish nation. If you are going to keep the 10 you will need to keep the fullness of the 10 and that is put on the outside of the ark in full explanation as to what it means to keep the 10. You preach what you do not know. The law is the OC and not the NC.. You cannot put old wine into new wineskins or else it will break.. For the new Wine is of the Spirit.. Not of the Law.

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you got to be kiddin' Upon those two hang all the rest. Yeshua was there on Mount Sinai when they were handed down...

Acts 7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:


They are God's foundation of His Righteousness. They will last for all eternity. They cover the entire universe of God's creation, They are the foundation of God's kingdom. They are still under the mercy seat in heaven.

Exodus 25:16
And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Exodus 25:21
And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

Revelation 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

One is the example of the other..

Hebrews 8:5
Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

You keep wanting to keep the OC of the Jews.. We keep the faith in Christ and His righteousness and not keeping of the Law. I am not a Jew that was ever following of the Law and because now all things have been fulfilled in Christ I am still not a Jew but a gentile believer.. With this there is neither Jew nor Greek in the body of Christ for it is not of keeping of the 10 that makes one a true believer but one that is emmersed into Christ death and all things have become new. It is not the outward keeping of the Law but of a continual being filled with the Spirit and a daily washing of the water of the word with the sprinkling of the Blood of Jesus and the sanctifying Spirit within.. For what men could not do in the flesh Christ does in us through the Spirit. For out hope is not in the keeping of the 10 but Christ in us the very hope of Glory.

Here are they.. the saints... that keep the commandments of God and have the faith in Yeshua... Can you declare you are a saint by that definition?

visionary said:

you got to be kiddin' Upon those two hang all the rest. Yeshua was there on Mount Sinai when they were handed down...

Acts 7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:


They are God's foundation of His Righteousness. They will last for all eternity. They cover the entire universe of God's creation, They are the foundation of God's kingdom. They are still under the mercy seat in heaven.

Exodus 25:16
And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Exodus 25:21
And thou shalt put the mercy seat above upon the ark; and in the ark thou shalt put the testimony that I shall give thee.

Revelation 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

One is the example of the other..

Hebrews 8:5
Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.

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Great scripture but lets continue with what was being said..

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

MamaZ said:

Great scripture but lets continue with what was being said..

Heb 8:6 But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, by as much as He is also the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises.
Heb 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, there would have been no occasion sought for a second.

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Do not forget there is a everlasting covenant..

Isaiah 24:5
The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.

The Law is not abolished. The Law is still there, and while it in itself does not save us, it is our teacher in what it means to be a people of God.

1 Peter 1:14-15 (NASB95)
14 As obedient children, do not be conformed to the former lusts which were yours in your ignorance, 15 but like the Holy One who called you, be holy yourselves also in all your behavior;

When Peter said these words, he was quoting the Old Testament.

Leviticus 19:1-2 (NASB95)
1 Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 "Speak to all the congregation of the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘You shall be holy, for I the Lord your God am holy.

To be Holy is to keep the Law which God gave to Moses at Sinai. The problem is, that by the time Jesus taught on earth, the Jews had misunderstood this to mean that they were keeping the Law to establish their own righteousness by their own effort. In effect, they had written God out of the equation entirely.

Jesus, and later the Apostles, taught that we do not do God's will to establish our own righteousness since that is established by God himself and given to the people he has adopted as the "Covenant Children of God."

However, we do keep the teachings that God gave to Moses because he said we are to be Holy like he is Holy. In simple Love for God and gratitude for his sacrifice and mercy, we strive to be like him in every way.

Does that mean that we follow words written on stones which no longer exist? No, of course not. We have no need of those stones because as Jeremiah the Prophet said,

Jeremiah 24:7 (NASB95)
7 ‘I will give them a heart to know Me, for I am the Lord; and they will be My people, and I will be their God, for they will return to Me with their whole heart.

and

Jeremiah 31:33 (NASB95)
33 "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the Lord, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people.

We do not need the stones because God had remade our hearts to follow him and written his Laws on our hearts and minds.

But, the Law is still there as the guide and teacher. For us however, it is no longer the judge.

Those who teach that there is no Law, or that we can ignore God's Laws, or that we can do whatever we want because we are saved and God doesn't really care how we act, have misunderstood Paul and twisted his words into words of death, rather than words of life.

Some modern day 'theologians' in Christiandom have taken great liberties in trying to peddle the 'theory' that 'believers' are no longer under the Law. Paul would be the first in line to tell that that 'what you sow' therefore shall you also 'reap.'

If you sow to SIN (transgression of the Law) there you shall also REAP the harvest (death.)

The notion that 'believers' CANNOT SIN via transgression of the Law because they are NOT UNDER the Law is patently absurd. IF a believer murders they will REAP the penalty and YES, that murder is a TRANSGRESSION of THE Law they are supposedly 'not under.'

MamaZ said:

Jesus said that we shall know them by their fruit and not by those who are keeping of the 10

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I John exposes your error of interpretation of view of obedience in the Christians life. Here is the key text that explodes your premise: I John 2:3-6, "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says, 'I know him' but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him.: whoever say he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

visionary said:

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

If you love Yeshua, keep the TEN commandments..

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

Do not think that Yeshua's commandments are any different from His Father's. They are one and the same...

John 15:10
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.

It is the rule of thumb...

1 John 2:3
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. 4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

Love of God is manifested this way...

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

The devil goes after God's children.. and the devil will be able to identify them by their manifestation of the Love of God..

Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

It is so evident that God calls people who do keep them as Saints...

Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.

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Why is it that every time we hear 'commandments' we automatically assume it is the Ten Commandments?

Isn't a commandment simply a command?

If God says 'run', isn't that a commandment?

If God says 'walk', isn't that a commandment?

When God told Moses to take off his shoes, wasn't that a commandment?

Why are we so quick to conclude that everywhere we see 'commandments' it is some how referring to the 'Ten'?

I think those who make such conclusions just wants it to be the 'Ten'.

But wanting it to be the 'Ten' isn't going to cause it to be the 'Ten'.

If only it was that easy.

squint said:

Paul advised us that the LAW is Holy, Righteous and Spiritual. As such they are FULLY APPLICABLE and FULLY in force and effect, yes even for 'believers.' And they are so 'because' they are GODS WORDS.

Paul also told us that the Law was meant to shut every mouth and to make the WHOLE WORLD guilty before God. Presumably you have a mouth and are a part of the world?


It is sold everyday in the pews that 'christians' are not 'under the Law.' And that is a basic LIE.

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I don't think Paul was lying when He said:

The law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless...1 Tim 1:9.

If Christians are "righteous" then the law is not for them. It is only for those who are "lawless".

Christians are not "lawless", they are "righteous", and therefore the law does not apply to them.

All who rely on observing the law are under a curse...Gal 3:10.

Christians would do well to stay clear of this "curse".

Doveaman said:

I don't think Paul was lying when He said:

The law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless...1 Tim 1:9.

If Christians are "righteous" then the law is not for them. It is only for those who are "lawless".

Christians are not "lawless", they are "righteous", therefore the law does not apply to them.

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All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

BrightCandle said:

I John exposes your error of interpretation of view of obedience in the Christians life. Here is the key text that explodes your premise: I John 2:3-6, "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says, 'I know him' but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him, but whoever keeps his word, in him truly the love of God is perfected. By this we may be sure that we are in him.: whoever say he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked."

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If you can prove that the term "commandments" in those verses quoted refers to the 'Ten Commandments' then your point is well taken.

But if you cannot prove this then you have no point.

In addition, Christ observed all Jewish customs.

You and I both know we don't have to do that.

So when John said we "ought to walk in the same way in which he (Jesus) walked" he obviously does not mean every single way, otherwise we would be observing all the Jewish festivals and customs as Jesus did.

So you need to develop you argument a little more.

I'd say there's more a jumping from two different sides in "keeping the 10 Commandments" (the subject of this thread ... right?). One side seems to be saying No, it's not necessary to be saved. The other side seems to be saying yes, it's gotta be done to be saved.

The essential issue seems to me that keeping the 10 Commandments can't be performed by sinful human beings to any range of perfection or warranting of God's reward. "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." The Law wasn't really intended to justify human beings through this work, then. Obviously God knew this before He gave Israel the Law. The Law wasn't meant to justify people in general before God.

The Law does point out, though, that if we could obligate God to save us, we're obligated to be perfect. Yet we're not perfect. We're actually sinful.

Jesus Christ is our perfect representative and He has born the penalty of our sinfulness.

Believers freed from the commanding and condemning power of the covenant of works.

But that doesn't deprive the Law of its actual intent: "Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law."

So it doesn't change the actual obligation to the Law, which remains (and remains to be discussed). We continue in gratitude to seek out correction of our sinfulness, knowing full well that our sinfulness continues on and is the reason for Christ's bruising, stripes, and death on the Cross.

Keeping the 10 Commandments is not the same as performing them according to highly exacting Pharisaical principles. And they were indeed exacting, far more so than we give Pharisees credit for. Something must exceed it, though. Or we're dead. "unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus exceeded it.

But keeping the Law means something else. It was meant to accomplish some things. We find the purpose of the Law written in the hearts of believers. "you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts." Believers are following the Spirit Who wrote the Law, and thus fulfilling the Law's point and purpose. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." "Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law."

Finally, when we find ourselves keeping Christ's commandments, we learn something about ourselves. "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments." It's not particularly a question whether Jesus' commands line up with the 10 Commandments (though I think they do). When we follow His commands, we learn something from this observation We've come to know Him.

The law of the ten commandments a rule of life to believers.

visionary said:

All have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

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Yes, but Christians are still 'righteous'. Your statement doesn't change that fact. And 'the law' doesn't apply to the 'righteous'. It only applies to the 'lawless'.

The law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless...1 Tim 1:9.

heymikey80 said:

I'd say there's more a jumping from two different sides in "keeping the 10 Commandments" (the subject of this thread ... right?). One side seems to be saying No, it's not necessary to be saved. The other side seems to be saying yes, it's gotta be done to be saved.

The essential issue seems to me that keeping the 10 Commandments can't be performed by sinful human beings to any range of perfection or warranting of God's reward. "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin." The Law wasn't really intended to justify human beings through this work, then. Obviously God knew this before He gave Israel the Law. The Law wasn't meant to justify people in general before God.

The Law does point out, though, that if we could obligate God to save us, we're obligated to be perfect. Yet we're not perfect. We're actually sinful.

Jesus Christ is our perfect representative and He has born the penalty of our sinfulness.

Believers freed from the commanding and condemning power of the covenant of works.

But that doesn't deprive the Law of its actual intent: "Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law."

So it doesn't change the actual obligation to the Law, which remains (and remains to be discussed). We continue in gratitude to seek out correction of our sinfulness, knowing full well that our sinfulness continues on and is the reason for Christ's bruising, stripes, and death on the Cross.

Keeping the 10 Commandments is not the same as performing them according to highly exacting Pharisaical principles. And they were indeed exacting, far more so than we give Pharisees credit for. Something must exceed it, though. Or we're dead. "unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven."

Jesus exceeded it.

But keeping the Law means something else. It was meant to accomplish some things. We find the purpose of the Law written in the hearts of believers. "you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts." Believers are following the Spirit Who wrote the Law, and thus fulfilling the Law's point and purpose. "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires." "Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law."

Finally, when we find ourselves keeping Christ's commandments, we learn something about ourselves. "And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments." It's not particularly a question whether Jesus' commands line up with the 10 Commandments (though I think they do). When we follow His commands, we learn something from this observation We've come to know Him.

The law of the ten commandments a rule of life to believers.

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I think there is a difference between the letter of the law and the Spirit of the law.

It was the Spirit of the law who engraved the letter of the law on stone in the form of Ten Commandments then gave them to Moses.

The Spirit is obviously superior to the letter in that He wrote the letter.

But does He, the Spirit, live by the letter?

Does He observe the letter?

For example, does He, the Spirit, observe the seventh-day Sabbath which we know was included in the letter engraved on stone?

If He does not, then one can conclude He doesn’t observe the other nine either.

Could He discard one and keep nine.

Not according to James:

For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said, "Do not murder." Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law… James 2:10-11.

So maybe He discarded all Ten.

This way there is no law for us to 'transgress', and, therefore, no 'guilt'.

Where there is no law there is no transgression...sin is not taken into account when there is no law...Rom 4:15, 5:13.

All there is for us Christians is freedom in Christ; no transgressions, no guilt, no conviction, no condemnation, there is only freedom for us through a living faith in Christ.

It is for freedom that Christ has set us free. Stand firm, then, and do not let yourselves be burdened again by a yoke of slavery...Gal 5:1.

Rom 5:12-13…Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world.

Did anyone else see that?

It says “before the law was given, sin was in the world”.

How can this be?

How can 'sin' exist before 'the law'?

Isn’t 'sin' the transgression of 'the law'?

How can there be 'sin' if there is no 'law' to transgress?

Is it possible that 'sin' is not really the transgression of 'the law' of 'Ten Commandments'?

Doveaman said:

Rom 5:12-13…Just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned— for before the law was given, sin was in the world.

Did anyone else see that?

It says “before the law was given, sin was in the world”.

How can this be?

How can 'sin' exist before 'the law'?

Isn’t 'sin' the transgression of 'the law'?

How can there be 'sin' if there is no 'law' to transgress?

Is it possible that 'sin' is not really the transgression of 'the law'?

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We all see it, and Paul is saying what we've been saying all along. The law had been broken before it was given on Sinai because it was around before Sinai. Up to Sinai the law had been passed down throughout their generations by word of mouth. But after the Israelites were in Egypt they forgot their first love. So when God brought them out He gave them the law which they had forgotten.

Stryder06 said:

We all see it, and Paul is saying what we've been saying all along. The law had been broken before it was given on Sinai because it was around before Sinai. Up to Sinai the law had been passed down throughout their generations by word of mouth. But after the Israelites were in Egypt they forgot their first love. So when God brought them out He gave them the law which they had forgotten.

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If you can prove the Ten Commandment law was pass down by word of mouth you would have a point.

But if you cannot prove this you have no point.

You only have speculations.

Speculations are just empty words.

Show me some substance, please.

Consider this:

Rom 5:13...Before the law was given, sin was in the world. But sin is not taken into account when there is no law.

The point that Paul is making here is that 'sin' can exist even though 'no law' exist, and if there is 'no law' the 'sin' is not "taken into account"; we are not held accountable by God for the 'sin' if there is 'no law'.

This is why a Christian at times may 'sin' (unintentionally), but he is not held accountable by God for the 'sin', because, for the Christian, there is no law to convict him or condemn Him for the 'sin'. There is only justification by grace through a living faith in Jesus Christ.

A living faith expressing itself through love covers a multitude of sins (Gal 5:6, 1 Pet 4:8).

'Law', on the other hand, convicts us of 'sin' and condemns us for 'sin'.

This is why "all who rely on observing the law are under a curse..."Gal 3:10.

They are under the 'curse' of the law's conviction of 'sin' and the 'curse' of the law's condemnation for 'sin'.

Christians would do well to stay clear of this "curse" by staying clear of "the law" that convicts us and condemns us for our 'sins'.