Soldier says rabbis pushed "religious war" in Gaza

seashale76 · Mar 21, 2009

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/LK939777.htm

Soldier says rabbis pushed "religious war" in Gaza
20 Mar 2009 14:52:04 GMT

Source: Reuters
(Adds background, edits) JERUSALEM, March 20 (Reuters) - Rabbis in the Israeli army told battlefield troops in January's Gaza offensive they were fighting a "religious war" against gentiles, according to one army commander's account published on Friday.

"Their message was very clear: we are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle, God brought us back to this land and now we need to fight to expel the gentiles who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land," he said.

The account by Ram, a pseudonym to shield the soldier's identity, was published by the left-leaning Haaretz newspaper in the second day of revelations that have rocked the Israeli military. (www.haaretz.com "Shooting and Crying, 2009").

They were leaked from a Feb 13 meeting of armed forces members to share their Gaza experiences.

Some veterans, alumni of an Israel Defence Force (IDF) military academy, told of the killing of civilians and their impression that deep contempt for Palestinians pervaded the ranks of the Israeli forces.

Haaretz and the daily Maariv, which also published the accounts, quoted over half a dozen soldiers and airmen. The institution's director, Danny Zamir, confirmed that Thursday's published accounts were authentic.

In longer excerpts in its Friday "Week's End" edition, the daily quoted 'Ram' as saying his impression of the 22-day operation was "the feeling of an almost religious mission".

There was a "huge gap between what the Education Corps sent out and what the IDF rabbinate sent out", he said. The corps's pamphlets told the history of Israel's fighting in Gaza from 1948 to the present, but the rabbinate's message imparted the sense that "this operation was a religious war".

The rabbinate of the IDF provides religious services, including overseeing preparation of kosher food, providing prayerbooks and prayer sessions and religious counselling to any soldier wants to participate. Involvement is not obligatory....

(Go to link to read the rest of the article.)

CCGirl · Mar 21, 2009

I've been following this story, which puts to rest the claims that Israel=good, Palestinians=bad rhetoric. It is truly frightening the amount of positions the extreme religious right occupy in the government and the IOF.

Tanakh · Mar 21, 2009

CCGirl said:
I've been following this story, which puts to rest the claims that Israel=good, Palestinians=bad rhetoric. It is truly frightening the amount of positions the extreme religious right occupy in the government and the IOF.

The Rabbis are doing their job! If the Torah has no meaning then neither does Israel and Jews should just leave yet the mandate of G-d is to protect Israel and carry out the laws of Torah regardless of the "consequences" that the modern world may impose. G-d's laws are not our laws and His ways are not our ways therefore we as Jews must obey the Tanakh no matter what!

Autumnleaf · Mar 21, 2009

Tanakh said:
The Rabbis are doing their job! If the Torah has no meaning then neither does Israel and Jews should just leave yet the mandate of G-d is to protect Israel and carry out the laws of Torah regardless of the "consequences" that the modern world may impose. G-d's laws are not our laws and His ways are not our ways therefore we as Jews must obey the Tanakh no matter what!

And nonJews should understand exactly what that means to them.

Col3_11n12 · Mar 21, 2009

It was precisely these same Jewish nationalistic feelings that made them miss their Savior the first time. I'm sure it will make them miss Him the second time as well.

Nooj · Mar 21, 2009

Col3_11n12 said:
It was precisely these same Jewish nationalistic feelings that made them miss their Savior the first time. I'm sure it will make them miss Him the second time as well.

Oh please, do we have to attack all Jews now? I can understand outrage at Israel, even if I don't agree with it to the extent that some people feel, but stereotyping an entire ethnicity is just not on.

Nathan45 · Mar 21, 2009

Tanakh said:
The Rabbis are doing their job! If the Torah has no meaning then neither does Israel and Jews should just leave yet the mandate of G-d is to protect Israel and carry out the laws of Torah regardless of the "consequences" that the modern world may impose. G-d's laws are not our laws and His ways are not our ways therefore we as Jews must obey the Tanakh no matter what!

I'm going to go ahead and call poe.

Nathan45 · Mar 21, 2009

anyway, this entire article is basically hearsay.

Rabbis in the Israeli army told battlefield troops in January's Gaza offensive they were fighting a "religious war" against gentiles, according to one army commander's account published on Friday.

Is there an actual quote from a rabbi in there anywhere, or just second hand stuff? I'm not saying that there arn't crazy rabbis, i'd just like to hear a firsthand quote from one

Nathan45 · Mar 21, 2009

Autumnleaf said:
And nonJews should understand exactly what that means to them.

it doesn't mean anything, you're getting trolled.

CCGirl · Mar 21, 2009

Gaza war crime claims gather pace as more troops speak out

Fresh allegations have come to light that gung-ho leadership inculcated a culture of disregard for Palestinian casualties

An investigation by reporter Uri Blau, published on Friday in Haaretz, disclosed how Israeli soldiers were ordering T-shirts to mark the end of operations, featuring grotesque images including dead babies, mothers weeping by their children's graves, a gun aimed at a child and bombed-out mosques.

Another T-shirt designed for infantry snipers bears the inscription "Better use Durex" next to a picture of a dead Palestinian baby, with his weeping mother and a teddy bear beside him. A shirt designed for the Givati Brigade's Shaked battalion depicts a pregnant Palestinian woman with a bull's-eye superimposed on her belly, with the slogan, in English, "1 shot, 2 kills".

Disgusting. And the fact that some on this board defend this is equally sickening.

Nooj · Mar 22, 2009

I'm going to go ahead and call poe.

I'm afraid not...

Col3_11n12 · Mar 22, 2009

It was precisely these same Jewish nationalistic feelings that made them miss their Savior the first time. I'm sure it will make them miss Him the second time as well.

Oh please, do we have to attack all Jews now?

Nope. It's neither an attack, nor against all Jews. Just stating the facts. Plenty of Jews have spoken out against the so-called "Jewish nation" as heretical.

The first time Jesus came, some Jews came to know Him as Messiah and were saved. Others needed a messiah who would overthrow the Roman government, so they crucified the one true Messiah. They rejected Him once, they'll reject Him again. No apologies.

Tanakh · Mar 22, 2009

A Messiah that must come more then once is no Messiah at all. Their is only one true Messiah and he has yet to come and when he does he will fulfill his mission during his lifetime.

My point is that if Jews do not fight for Israel being a Jewish nation then there is no point in Israel existing at all. Israel must exist to carry out the laws of Torah and thus G-d otherwise Jews are wasting their time if they have no intention of making Israel a Jewish nation.

Col3_11n12 · Mar 22, 2009

A Messiah that must come more then once is no Messiah at all. Their is only one true Messiah and he has yet to come and when he does he will fulfill his mission during his lifetime.

According to Tanakh, the Messiah comes BEFORE Israel is established.

Micah 5

2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times. " 3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites.

If the Messiah indeed has not come, then by your own belief Zionism is apostate. The gathering to Israel was not to occur until after the Messiah comes.

My point is that if Jews do not fight for Israel being a Jewish nation then there is no point in Israel existing at all. Israel must exist to carry out the laws of Torah and thus G-d otherwise Jews are wasting their time if they have no intention of making Israel a Jewish nation.

Israel did not even exist as a nation at the time of Torah. Why do you have to have it in order to carry out the law? Why not just do whatever they did then? Or do what Jews did for the past 1900 years without Israel, for that matter.

Tanakh · Mar 23, 2009

Col3_11n12 said:
According to Tanakh, the Messiah comes BEFORE Israel is established.

Micah 5

2 "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah,
though you are small among the clans of Judah,
out of you will come for me
one who will be ruler over Israel,
whose origins are from of old,
from ancient times. " 3 Therefore Israel will be abandoned
until the time when she who is in labor gives birth
and the rest of his brothers return
to join the Israelites.

If the Messiah indeed has not come, then by your own belief Zionism is apostate. The gathering to Israel was not to occur until after the Messiah comes.

"Bethlehem - Ephrarah, - you are too small to be among the thousands of Judah, but from you someone will emerge for Me to be a ruler over Israel; and his origins will be from early times, from days of old. Therefore, He will deliver them [to their enemies] until the time that a woman in childbirth gives birth; then the rest of his brothers will return with the Children of Israel." - Micah 5:1-2

This verse is saying that the hardships of the diaspora will be as intense as labor pains but once the Jewish nation is reborn it will see the return of G-d's people. It is talking about how Israel will emerge with new Jewish leaders and that Israel will become the greatest nation on earth. The verse references the Messiah but says nothing about Jesus Christ and it does not say that the Messiah will come before Israel is created. The rest of Micah 5 talks about how G-d will eliminate Israel's enemies such as Assyria and that once the enemies of Israel are all destroyed there will be peace.

Col3_11n12 said:
Israel did not even exist as a nation at the time of Torah. Why do you have to have it in order to carry out the law? Why not just do whatever they did then? Or do what Jews did for the past 1900 years without Israel, for that matter.

Israel was created within a short time after the events at Sinai and, as the Torah makes clear, the Jewish people must have the land of Israel in order to carry out some of those very laws prescribed in the Torah!

rambot · Mar 23, 2009

Spirituality and politics are two different realms. God doesn't really care about one of them; guess which.

Soldier says rabbis pushed "religious war" in Gaza

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