Why is the God of the OT and the God of the NT so different?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Meshavrischika

for Thy greater honor and glory
Jun 12, 2007
20,903
1,566
OK
✟35,603.00
Faith
Catholic
Marital Status
Single
my dad is military, my grandfather is military and so is practically everyone else in my family (but me - asthma - lol). I understand strategy. Human beings haven't changed that much. we don't have a group strategy. There is no ultimate victory that God has to win.... the analogy isn't a great one.
 
Upvote 0

rnmomof7

Legend
Feb 9, 2002
14,465
733
Western NY
✟78,744.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
This is something I'm having a lot of a problems with explaining.

I'm reading through the Book of Ephesians, and also reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins.

One of the major points Dawkins makes is that there is a major difference between the Gods of the OT and NT. Now I also read Ephesians and Phillipians at the same time and I cannot simply explain away why a God who (in the OT) demands that so many laws are kept for purity and a God in the NT who opens His arms to everyone, Jew and Gentile.

Sorry for the stupid questions, but why was there a 'chosen people' in the OT and in the NT this change of heart?



What makes you think God is different? he had a chosen people then and He has a chosen people now..

He was a God of justice and Mercy then and He is a God of justice and mercy now
 
Upvote 0

Nadiine

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2006
52,800
48,336
Obama: 53% deserve him ;)
✟292,219.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
my dad is military, my grandfather is military and so is practically everyone else in my family (but me - asthma - lol). I understand strategy. Human beings haven't changed that much. we don't have a group strategy. There is no ultimate victory that God has to win.... the analogy isn't a great one.
This isn't about "group" strategy, this is about the HEAD of the military
(Lord of Hosts/armies) who strategized and designed the entire
battle and victory.

He claimed victory from the start and implimented 2 phases:
Law & Grace.

I don't see why this isn't an appropriate analogy esp. when God
calls us His "soldiers" and that we're in battle... weapons of our
warfare, etc. etc.

The fact that God created the grace covenant prior to Law shows
us that it's not poor planning at all - but He was anticipating something
we couldn't know.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeacaHeaven
Upvote 0

rnmomof7

Legend
Feb 9, 2002
14,465
733
Western NY
✟78,744.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Libertarian
the only reason there was a need for law is because we refused to exist without it... but that's beside the point. anyway, believe what you like.
No the law was given to show us what sinners we are and how holy God is.

It is our school master to lead us to see we need a Savior... ,
 
Upvote 0

Nadiine

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2006
52,800
48,336
Obama: 53% deserve him ;)
✟292,219.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
flaw to your logic = without law there is no sin
Well, sin isn't imputed - Adam sinned prior to law & the fall of man
came and curses came with that.

Cain sinned by killing Abel, but he wasn't put to death for it as he
would have been under law.
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeacaHeaven
Upvote 0

LittleLambofJesus

Hebrews 2:14.... Pesky Devil, git!
Supporter
May 19, 2015
125,492
28,587
73
GOD's country of Texas
Visit site
✟1,237,240.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Libertarian
then the tree didn't cause sin? (i.e. sin happened before eating)

and the curse came from the blood spilled... had he just been envious and hateful do you think that would have been punished the same? wouldn't we call that sin today?
The blood of the Martyrs for JESUS fertilize the land :wave:

Matt 23:35 So that may be coming on ye all blood righteous being poured out on the Land, from the blood of Abel the righteous, until the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye murder between the Sanctuary and the altar 36 Verily I am saying to ye shall be arriving these all upon the generation this.

Reve 6:10 And they cry out to a voice, great, saying: "Till when the Owner/Master/despothV <1203> the Holy and True not Thou are judging and out-justicing the blood of us out-of the ones homing upon the land
 
Upvote 0

Nadiine

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2006
52,800
48,336
Obama: 53% deserve him ;)
✟292,219.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
then the tree didn't cause sin? (i.e. sin happened before eating)

and the curse came from the blood spilled... had he just been envious and hateful do you think that would have been punished the same? wouldn't we call that sin today?
Curses came upon humanity and the earth with no
blood spilt. They ate fruit.

But either way, we cannot answer your question becuz we just can't know how God would have judged or when had Cain not physically killed Abel but just harbored hatred/envy?

Your guess is as good as mine I think
 
  • Like
Reactions: PeacaHeaven
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

ArcticFox

To glorify God, and enjoy him forever.
Sep 27, 2006
1,197
169
Japan
Visit site
✟17,152.00
Faith
Presbyterian
Marital Status
Married
to change methods of operation would imply that one did not plan effectively....

That is not necessarily true. We change methods of operation for a variety of reasons, only one of which could be improper planning or failure.

In the case of God's covenants, they were all very well planned before the foundations of the world. Jesus sacrifice was in God's mind before time began, as far as we are aware.

It's all part of a master plan. Jesus' coming fulfilled many prophecies and, in fact, fulfilled the law of the OT.
 
Upvote 0

WorshipBassist

Worship bassist!
Aug 12, 2008
251
15
36
Newcastle upon Tyne
✟7,969.00
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Single
Politics
UK-Labour
The God Delusion said:
The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant
character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust,
unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser;
a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal,
pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously
malevolent bully.

If this is the case and there is no different, then why does Dawkins in the above quote make a distinction between the God of the OT and NT. Surely if theology can unite the two and someone on Dawkins' level can understand the concept there isn't a problem?
 
Upvote 0

Nadiine

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2006
52,800
48,336
Obama: 53% deserve him ;)
✟292,219.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
Politics
US-Republican
If this is the case and there is no different, then why does Dawkins in the above quote make a distinction between the God of the OT and NT. Surely if theology can unite the two and someone on Dawkins' level can understand the concept there isn't a problem?
Becuz people are blinded to spiritual truth . . (and oftentimes rebellious
against it).

I think it's rather obvious that God is real, yet you'll find plenty of
people who deny the obvious - that God exists.

This is no different. I believe at the core of this is an attack of the
Trinity. To divide God up as if there's more than 1 God.
The Bible becomes a notable contradiction by this claim of
different Gods.

How people can miss that methods change by the same people is beyond me; it seems a rather simple concept to me.
:confused:

The same is said about God changing too, as if He changes -
while they don't understand that God has stayed the same -
it's His methods that change.
His attributes, plan/design and goals remain the same.
 
Upvote 0

Gary51

Senior Veteran
Sep 4, 2007
5,182
229
South Yorkshire, England
✟21,373.00
Faith
Christian Seeker
Marital Status
Private
Upvote 0

Chesterton

Whats So Funny bout Peace Love and Understanding
Supporter
May 24, 2008
23,749
20,197
Flatland
✟860,379.00
Faith
Eastern Orthodox
Marital Status
Single
I've heard angry small children speak similarly of one of their parents after the child has been disciplined. ;)

In my mind it raises the question why a people would invent such a character, when they could have just invented a Father figure who didn't care enough about right and wrong to disipline, or to get upset. If it were up to me to invent monotheism, I'd probably have written something pretty like the 23rd Psalm and stayed in that vein. Likewise, if I'd invented Jesus, I wouldn't have him saying "I've come to divide" and "love me more than you love your family".

Folks like Dawkins presumably might be more willing to accept a "nice guy" for a God. They're really wishing for a God who's just a decent little chap like themselves, and at the same time calling us wishful thinkers. :doh:
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

Daughter of His

Believing God
Feb 1, 2004
30,577
6,803
On my computer chair
✟76,711.00
Faith
Methodist
Marital Status
Married
Why would anyone want to listen to Dawkins? Those are his little ideas of who God is and Dawkins obviously doesn't understand what he claims to know so much about.

I contend that we should all read the Bible for ourselves,, allow God to teach us through His word then form your own opinions of what you think the character of God is like.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
Status
Not open for further replies.