The Bible silent on pre-marital sex?

&Abel · Feb 16, 2009

1(A)Finally then, (B)brethren, we request and exhort you in the Lord Jesus, that as you received from us instruction as to how you ought to (C)walk and (D)please God (just as you actually do [a]walk), that you (E)excel still more. 2For you know what commandments we gave you [b]by the authority of the Lord Jesus.
3For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you (F)abstain from sexual immorality;
4that (G)each of you know how to possess his own [c](H)vessel in sanctification and (I)honor,
5not in (J)lustful passion, like the Gentiles who (K)do not know God

Trento · Feb 16, 2009

Homie said:
1. Is the Bible silent on pre-marital sex? If not, show it.
2. If so, does God not condemn it?

Personally I believe that The Bible sort of infers it when it describes sexual promiscuity in a negative light. However, it never straight out says "Do not have sex before marriage". If God wants us to abstain from pre-marital sex, why does He not spell it out so that there can be no confusion? Like He does with homosexual sex (for both sexes), sex with animals, adultery (infidelity) and sex with immediate family members.

The Bible mentions fornication often, which in many translations is translated sexual immorality. But what is sexual immorality? It is either left up to the reader to figure out, or we can assume that it is the specific sexual acts mentioned in the Bible as sinful. Why the silence on the issue?

I'd like only people who are knowledgeable about The Bible to answer, this is to be a serious discussion.

Jesus has a lengthy but candid dialogue with the Samaritan woman at the well.

Jesus shows her that he already knows she is living with a man who is not her husband. Jesus said to her, "Go, call your husband, and come back." The woman answered him, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You are right in saying, 'I have no husband'; for you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true!"
John 4:1618
The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When he comes, he will proclaim all things to us." Jesus said to her, "I am he, the one who is speaking to you."
John 4:2526

Not only was she impressed that Jesus knew all her sins, but she was also given the opportunity to have those sins forgiven. She believes he is truly the Messiah, the Anointed One. She repents of her past misdeeds and goes back to tell her family, friends, and neighbors how she met Jesus and how he revealed his knowledge of her sins and his offer of live-giving water, which brings eternal life.

&Abel · Feb 16, 2009

Trento said:
Jesus has a lengthy but candid dialogue with the Samaritan woman at the well.

Jesus shows her that he already knows she is living with a man who is not her husband. Jesus said to her, "Go, call your husband, and come back." The woman answered him, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You are right in saying, 'I have no husband'; for you have had five husbands, and the one you have now is not your husband. What you have said is true!"
John 4:1618
The woman said to him, "I know that Messiah is coming" (who is called Christ). "When he comes, he will proclaim all things to us." Jesus said to her, "I am he, the one who is speaking to you."
John 4:2526

Not only was she impressed that Jesus knew all her sins, but she was also given the opportunity to have those sins forgiven. She believes he is truly the Messiah, the Anointed One. She repents of her past misdeeds and goes back to tell her family, friends, and neighbors how she met Jesus and how he revealed his knowledge of her sins and his offer of live-giving water, which brings eternal life.

good post

dayhiker · Feb 16, 2009

I agree this idea of sexual immorality isn't as straight forward as I was taught when I grew up. Fornication was pre-marrital sex period back then.

My own study on this topic found that fornication cam from the Latin. Jesome used the Latin fornix in his translation of the Greek bible into Latin. Fornix was one of 26 slang words for prostitution. As I learned the cultural context of the NT times, the pagan temples had many prostitutes in the temples to worship the fertility gods. When I read the context of the Greek word proneia it seems that most of them refer to this form of idol worship. Yet the Greek lexicons list this meaning last usually.

Its also interesting that the grrek moral writter lists lists of sins just like Paul does in his writtings. Not one do they list inappropriate contenteia as a wrong. While both the Bible and the Greek writer list adultery as a moral wrong.

I also came to have a problem with going to the Torah to find what is sinful. These writtings are for Isreal and Paul says 6 times we aren't under the Torah as Gentiles. Combining that with an understaing all people groups had purity laws and that purity laws were to identify people groups not be lists of sins. As Paul says in 1 Cor.1:30 Jesus is our purity law, IE our righteousness and sanctification.

So the problem with premarrital sin is that many are breaking the law to love one another when they have sex not that they are committing inappropriate contenteia. I don't like using the word fornication because the meaning in 300AD is different than it is today. I've searched ans asked people, but noone has been able to show me why and when the church changed the meaning of the word fornication.

dayhiker

daydreamergurl15 · Feb 16, 2009

I've posted this a while back in another forum, and I wanted to post it here because it seems appropriate. Oh, by the way some of the things I referred to was specifically for that original post, so somethings probably don't apply here.

Some of them sit there and throw out the Levitical laws around as if they are under that old covenant.
I find it interesting that some believed that Exodus 22 condones pre-marital sex. I for one do not believe it does, but lets pretend it does and see exactly how you would follow that law (remember you have to follow the law perfectly, if not, then you are at fault for breaking the whole law)
"If a man entices a virgin who is not betrothed, and lies with her, he shall surely pay the bride-price for her to be his wife. If her father utterly refuses to give her to him, he shall pay money according to the bride-price of virgins." (Exodus 22:16-17)

First off, this verse only apply to man whom is [enticing] a virgin whom is not betrothed. Secondly, the guy has to marry her unless the father refuse. And third, the guy has to pay the bride-price (married or not). So if someone wants to keep this law and say that this law condones pre-marital sex, then you have to abide by the entire thing. And while you are at it, you have to abide by the entire old covenant, thus making Christ's crucifixion void.

An even sadder case is this, If you take the idea that the man does not marry the woman, she is no longer a virgin, lets say she gets married to another man. In Deuteronomy 22:13-21, if another man marries her and then sleep with her and find out that she is not a virgin, she can be put to death. And if you read Deuteronomy 22:22-30, starting in 23-24 "If a young woman who is a virgin is betrothed to a husband, and a man finds her in the city and lies with her, then you shall bring them both out to the gate of that city, and you shall stone them to death with stones, the young woman because she did not cry out in the city and the man because he humbled his neighbor's wife; so you shall put away the evil from among you.

If someone says it's not the same situation as Exodus 22, then Deu. 22:28-29 might help:
"If a man finds a young woman who is a virgin, who is not betrothed, and he seizes her and lies with her, and they are found out, then the man who lay with her shall give to the young woman's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife because he has humbled her; he shall not be permitted to divorce her all his days."
And the stipulations are the same as Exodus 22, except there is no father clause. But either way, you do it before marriage, and God considers her your wife! You have sex with someone else afterward, then that is adultery! If you think pre-marital sex is not a sin, well men, that's your option. Now where does that leave us women?

I truly believe the bible makes it a point to tell us that we should not have sex outside of marriage regardless of the fact that He didn't say "don't have sex before marriage" He did tell us not to commit sexual immorality.

Inviolable · Feb 16, 2009

Homie said:
1. Is the Bible silent on pre-marital sex? If not, show it.
2. If so, does God not condemn it?

Personally I believe that The Bible sort of infers it when it describes sexual promiscuity in a negative light. However, it never straight out says "Do not have sex before marriage". If God wants us to abstain from pre-marital sex, why does He not spell it out so that there can be no confusion? Like He does with homosexual sex (for both sexes), sex with animals, adultery (infidelity) and sex with immediate family members.

The Bible mentions fornication often, which in many translations is translated sexual immorality. But what is sexual immorality? It is either left up to the reader to figure out, or we can assume that it is the specific sexual acts mentioned in the Bible as sinful. Why the silence on the issue?

I'd like only people who are knowledgeable about The Bible to answer, this is to be a serious discussion.

There are passages in the bible that talk about it but they say, if you cant control your lust it's best to get married.

Homie · Feb 16, 2009

Thank you for your insightful posts, especially dayhiker, and also daydreamergurl15. Different conclusions and perspectives, but both have some validity to them.

Also, there is the point of Jesus telling us not to even look at a woman lustfully. However, I find these marital related laws not to be too difficult to observe if you live in those times where men and women lived very much seperately, and marriages were arranged. Today, it is far more difficult to live according to that standard, because men-women relations have changed, whether we like it or not. I, for one, would like it if we had the old way of marriage where it was arranged when you reached a certain age and saw a girl you thought pretty. You talked to your parents, who talked to her parents and agreed on a price. Now it is much more difficult, which makes it more difficult to live by these guidelines. Could they have been for that time only? Could that be why God is so ambiguous about pre-marital sex, and does not spell it out specifically?

Zebra1552 · Feb 16, 2009

dayhiker said:
I agree this idea of sexual immorality isn't as straight forward as I was taught when I grew up. Fornication was pre-marrital sex period back then.

My own study on this topic found that fornication cam from the Latin. Jesome used the Latin fornix in his translation of the Greek bible into Latin. Fornix was one of 26 slang words for prostitution. As I learned the cultural context of the NT times, the pagan temples had many prostitutes in the temples to worship the fertility gods. When I read the context of the Greek word proneia it seems that most of them refer to this form of idol worship. Yet the Greek lexicons list this meaning last usually.

Probably because the usage of the word doesn't have that meaning in most cases.

Its also interesting that the grrek moral writter lists lists of sins just like Paul does in his writtings. Not one do they list inappropriate contenteia as a wrong. While both the Bible and the Greek writer list adultery as a moral wrong.

I also came to have a problem with going to the Torah to find what is sinful. These writtings are for Isreal and Paul says 6 times we aren't under the Torah as Gentiles. Combining that with an understaing all people groups had purity laws and that purity laws were to identify people groups not be lists of sins. As Paul says in 1 Cor.1:30 Jesus is our purity law, IE our righteousness and sanctification.

So the problem with premarrital sin is that many are breaking the law to love one another when they have sex not that they are committing inappropriate contenteia. I don't like using the word fornication because the meaning in 300AD is different than it is today. I've searched ans asked people, but noone has been able to show me why and when the church changed the meaning of the word fornication.

dayhiker

Paul also said, "Should we continue in sin in order that grace may multiply? Absolutely not!" And he said, " Now concerning the things about which you wrote, it is good for a man not to touch a woman. But because of immoralities, each man is to have his own wife, and each woman is to have her own husband."
Sounds pretty straightforward.

elephunky · Feb 16, 2009

It speaks about sexual immorality rather than sex before marriage

daydreamergurl15 · Feb 16, 2009

dGirl1986 said:
It speaks about sexual immorality rather than sex before marriage

Why is sex before marriage not considered a sexual immorality?

Okay, I'm curious now, can someone please tell me what they think sexual immorality encompasses?

elephunky · Feb 16, 2009

sexual immorality = with animals, sleeping around, whoring yourself, sleeping with someone who is already taken, sleeping with family, sleeping with the partners of someone in the family. it states it in the bible somewhere, i cant remember where

daydreamergurl15 · Feb 16, 2009

dGirl1986 said:
sexual immorality = with animals, sleeping around, whoring yourself, sleeping with someone who is already taken, sleeping with family, sleeping with the partners of someone in the family. it states it in the bible somewhere, i cant remember where

Okay and you don't consider any of those (excluding sex with animals) having sex outside of marriage?

elephunky · Feb 16, 2009

Nope. not in the legal sense anyway

daydreamergurl15 · Feb 16, 2009

dGirl1986 said:
Nope. not in the legal sense anyway

What's the difference? Excluding sex with animals, are not some of your examples showing sex before marriage (sleeping around, whoring yourself)? And I realize the other examples showing adultery. And when you mean legal sense are we talking about government legality or biblical legality?

elephunky · Feb 16, 2009

Legal - its just a ceremony, a piece of paper. A lot of people get married without there ever actually ebing any love. You can legally get married and sleep with that person without having actually loved them

daydreamergurl15 · Feb 16, 2009

Please elaborate how in the legal sense, sleeping around, whoring yourself, sleeping with someone who is already taken (should I assume "taken" as married or in a relationship) should not be considered having sex before marriage.

elephunky · Feb 16, 2009

The bible doesnt say sex before marriage, it actually states the above things as sexual immorality, interesting that it didnt mention premaritals

Homie · Feb 16, 2009

There were many good posts on page 1 and 2 that I missed at first. Thank you guys, you have answered well, surprisingly well. I expected the usual ignorant reply along these lines "I believe fornication means sex before marriage. Therefore the Bible clearly states it as sin". But what I found were other passages where it cannot be mistaken, presented in context and with good arguments surrounding it.

Conclusion: If we go by the OT alone, one cannot make the assumption that sex before marriage is unlawful. However, yet again the bar is raised in the NT, where there are verses that implicitly say that pre-marital sex is sin. Sure, it is not spelled out, but the logical conclusion of these verses cannot be mistaken, they say that pre-marital sex is sin.

Which leads to think: How are we more free under the New Covenant? It seems that we are less free, because now more things are considered sins than before. Jesus and also the epistle writers take the old laws to a new level and makes it that much harder to avoid sin. How are we more free when more actions have been restricted and more actions is considered sinful?

Sure, you might say "But now we can be forgiven, yippee!" That is fine and good, but we are still not free to continue in these actions which are now considered sinful. We are expected to abstain from them, if we falter we can be forgiven, but so what? We cannot plan on sinning again and then be forgiven, then that would not be a true repentance.

Philosophical and theological mumbo-jumbo aside (you know: I in Him, Him in me, blood, spiritual state, blah, blah, blah), in the practical sense we are less free, no?

Homie · Feb 16, 2009

There were many good posts on page 1 and 2 that I missed at first. Thank you guys, you have answered well, surprisingly well. I expected the usual ignorant reply along these lines "I believe fornication means sex before marriage. Therefore the Bible clearly states it as sin". But what I found were other passages where it cannot be mistaken, presented in context and with good arguments surrounding it.

Conclusion: If we go by the OT alone, one cannot make the assumption that sex before marriage is unlawful. However, yet again the bar is raised in the NT, where there are verses that implicitly say that pre-marital sex is sin. Sure, it is not spelled out, but the logical conclusion of these verses cannot be mistaken, they say that pre-marital sex is sin.

Which leads to think: How are we more free under the New Covenant? It seems that we are less free, because now more things are considered sins than before. Jesus and also the epistle writers take the old laws to a new level and makes it that much harder to avoid sin. How are we more free when more actions have been restricted and more actions is considered sinful?

Sure, you might say "But now we can be forgiven, yippee!" That is fine and good, but we are still not free to continue in these actions which are now considered sinful. We are expected to abstain from them, if we falter we can be forgiven, but so what? We cannot plan on sinning again and then be forgiven, then that would not be a true repentance.

Philosophical and theological mumbo-jumbo aside (you know: I in Him, Him in me, blood, spiritual state, blah, blah, blah), in the practical sense we are less free, no?

daydreamergurl15 · Feb 16, 2009

dGirl1986 said:
The bible doesnt say sex before marriage, it actually states the above things as sexual immorality, interesting that it didnt mention premaritals

But what I am getting at, is even when He didn't physically say the words "sex before marriage or premarital sex" it doesn't mean He did not speak against them. He might have called sex before marriage "sexual immorality" and you have already provided some of the things He considers sexually immoral.

Sex before marriage means just that, I can't see how "sleeping around, whoring yourself, sleeping with someone who is already taken" to be considered sexually immoral but yet we don't connect it as having sex before marriage. I also can't see how "having sex with the one you love/about to get married/in a committed relationship" not be considered sexually immoral.

The Bible silent on pre-marital sex?

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Mature veteran

Daughter of the King

Well-Known Member

Gods servant

Urban Nomad. Literally.

Previously known as dgirl1986

Daughter of the King

Previously known as dgirl1986

Daughter of the King

Previously known as dgirl1986

Daughter of the King

Previously known as dgirl1986

Daughter of the King

Previously known as dgirl1986

Gods servant

Gods servant

Daughter of the King

Similar threads