An essay on abortion and Christianity. What are your thoughts on the essay?

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white dove

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http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortion.html

This is a pretty interesting take on abortion.

I urge those who are interrested to read the whole thing, because only then will the essay be really be understood.

I thoroughly enjoyed that as it did an okay job at playing devil's advocate.. yet, not to the extreme I'd hoped. I think the beginning and middle of the article treads a dangerous line of thinking before the writer even stops to think of what he's really saying - which carries over into the latter parts of the essay. He does not formulate the "opposing" argument very well, nor does he reflect a clear path between forms of logic. I had a couple problems with the "heel" portion:


1. A fetus is stated as a non-person. The verses used to formulate an argument against an intimate creation of God vs. a non-person did nothing but back-up the belief that God knows us intimately from the time we were first conceived. I believe the Bible clearly points to a knowledgable God and one that is forever interested in us as His people. Even in our sinning, He cares to rebuke us. I didn't quite understand this portion of the essay, so perhaps I was just reading it incorrectly.


2. Taking Bible verses out of context. The same could be said for the verses used in that essay, unfortunately which is great that he mentioned this at the end. Song of Songs is hardly inappropriate content; it merely celebrates beauty and passion in its purest form. It has also been argued that Song of Songs is not about a particular woman, a man nor of sexuality at all. Job's entire account could be pointed out as a depressing, self-centered account of a man with not enough grit nor the know-how to curtail his own suffering. Yet, it exists in the Bible for a reason; one might say to justify our own sufferings and make it accutely aware to us that God is aware of our suffering and is not entirely mute on the subject. Could it be, also, that they exist to encourage us to persevere in times of trials, rather than dwelling on our own suffering? I'm glad he mentioned quality of life b/c I agree with that.


3. We are not prophets of the Lord; as such, we cannot take ownership over those passages in Jeremiah. In Numbers 11, there is an interesting account where the Spirit of God and the word "prophet" comes into play. In one instance, Moses states that he wishes all God's people were prophets, so that He may put His Spirit on them. When God put His Spirit on the people, they prophesied. Likewise, in the New Testament, we are given the Holy Spirit. When we are born again of the spirit, the Holy Spirit resides within us, which would make us.. prophets, right? I'd love to look up more verses right now, but find a few for me that would argue against that line of reasoning.

4. The verses mentioned in Ecclesiastes: If those Scriptures were interpreted such a way, then why bother with life at all? That is not only a strong case for euthanasia and abortions, but also a case for mass suicide, infantacide and murder as well if it were to be interpreted in this way. Questioning, "Why, God, why" is a common occurence in the Bible. Even Jesus Christ asked, "Why hast thou forsaken me?" Yet, is that really the route you'd want to go with these verses?


5. The inclusion of Exodus was confusing to me. The fact was not reiterated that if the guy caused the woman's miscarriage (thus, murdering the baby), he would still be fined and punished for what he had done. This does not condone abortion on any level because to - even inadvertantly - cause the baby to die was still clearly not a good thing.



It's unfortunate that I partially agreed with his concept on how culturally-intertwined we are in our beliefs. Yet, at the same time, I couldn't respect the lack of a truly formulated "pro-choice" response.
 
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Stinker

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I think the essay is 100% accurate. However, I think it unusual that the reason behind why anti-abortionists campaign so hard on this issue is never addressed. If it is true that the fetus is not as valuable to God as a 32 day old baby, because it is not considered a person, what is there to stop us from considering brain damaged, the retarded, and Alzheimers patients, as no longer persons. The Christian will say that these afflicted people were born with a spirit given to them from God....their spirit. So they are of value to God. The non-believer may not see this. They may only focus on human value. What is valuable to the scientific community Not what is valuable to God. Since these afflicted people have lost what made them a person to the scientific community. The day could come that it be expedient to society to 'put these afflicted people down' like we do our pets.
 
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Ave Maria

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I can tell you before even reading the article that it is wrong. Abortion most certainly is not Biblical. Abortion is wrong and should be avoided. Of course, sometimes abortion is justified such as when the mother's life is at risk.
 
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buddy_holly

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I can tell you before even reading the article that it is wrong. Abortion most certainly is not Biblical. Abortion is wrong and should be avoided. Of course, sometimes abortion is justified such as when the mother's life is at risk.

I recall mentioning giving your opinion on the essay, not the topic. I don't want a flame war.

If you don't like abortion, fine, but read the post and article before replying please. :sorry:

Otherwise, although I respect your opinion, I would rather not hear it.
 
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buddy_holly

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In my opinion it's just one more in a long line of attempts to justify evil by twisting scripture and marginalizing Christianity. How can one not see through the rhetoric in that article? Nothing new there, really.

If you read the article, you will realize that this is not the case. :doh:

He doesn't take sides, so please, read the article before replying.


BTW, thanks to the other repliers who read the article and gave their opinion.
 
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daydreamergurl15

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I stopped reading after he gave his interpretations of Psalm.

This part made me laugh
"Although this passage [Pslam 139:139:13-16] does make the point that God was involved in the creation of this particular human being, it does not state that during the creation the fetus is indeed a person."

I failed to realize when someone can be a human being but cannot be a person. I also found out that the word "fetus" mean little one in Latin, so I chuckle every time someone calls babies "fetus" to separate the fact that they think they are not human or a person.
 
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Texas Lynn

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In my opinion it's just one more in a long line of attempts to justify evil by twisting scripture and marginalizing Christianity. How can one not see through the rhetoric in that article? Nothing new there, really.

Let's hear where the "evil" is.
 
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white dove

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If you read the article, you will realize that this is not the case. :doh:

He doesn't take sides, so please, read the article before replying.


BTW, thanks to the other repliers who read the article and gave their opinion.

What are your thoughts on the subject?
 
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CreedIsChrist

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http://www.elroy.net/ehr/abortion.html

This is a pretty interesting take on abortion.

I urge those who are interested to read the whole thing, because only then will the essay be really be understood.

Definitely not the true orthodox Christian position

If it was written on paper I would burn it .. Just like any pro-abortion propaganda should be
 
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Zebra1552

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I can tell you before even reading the article that it is wrong. Abortion most certainly is not Biblical. Abortion is wrong and should be avoided. Of course, sometimes abortion is justified such as when the mother's life is at risk.
So if my life is at risk from 100 babies, we should kill them too? Why is an adult's life more important than an infant's?
 
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Texas Lynn

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Definitely not the true orthodox Christian position

You realize, of course, this is but a variation of the "No True Scotsman" argument as as such is entirely invalid.

If it was written on paper I would burn it .. Just like any pro-abortion propaganda should be

I've never seen "pro-abortion" propaganda and doubt it exists.
 
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Texas Lynn

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So if my life is at risk from 100 babies, we should kill them too? Why is an adult's life more important than an infant's?

I guess that gets into the territory of "If you could have killed Hitler as a baby would you have done it?" type speculation better suited for boys' college dorms at 3:00 AM.
 
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Zebra1552

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I guess that gets into the territory of "If you could have killed Hitler as a baby would you have done it?" type speculation better suited for boys' college dorms at 3:00 AM.
So because you don't agree with the reasoning, you dismiss it as 'speculation'. And since when did we start equating 100 babies with Hitler?
 
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homewardbound

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If you read the article, you will realize that this is not the case. :doh:

He doesn't take sides, so please, read the article before replying.


BTW, thanks to the other repliers who read the article and gave their opinion.


Just because I don't agree with your assessment that this is a masterpiece doesn't mean I didn't read the entire article before commenting.

The author does take sides, and surely you can see that. He also makes some assertions in the early going (paragraph 3 in particular) that blew his credibility with me. In fact, his assertion that anti-abortionists take scripture out of context, or try to build an argument around a couple of verses, is terribly unfair to the many who don't.
 
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BigNorsk

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Well I would agree that the verses are often used to say more than can really be certain that they do.

But the article doesn't seem to deal with the position that seems to me to be woven through the Bible that children are a blessing.

Instead there is abortion that sees children as a problem.

Marv
 
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CreedIsChrist

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You realize, of course, this is but a variation of the "No True Scotsman" argument as as such is entirely invalid.



I've never seen "pro-abortion" propaganda and doubt it exists.


Christianity for over 2000 years has condemned abortion. It was only until 1930 around that justification of it began.


Ok , Pro "choice" proproganda according to you. Should be purged in fire just like its supporters will be in the day of judgement when the blood of 60 million+ children lay on they're shoulder.

The Apocalypse of Peter

"I saw a gorge in which the discharge and excrement of the tortured ran down and became like a lake. There sat women, and the discharge came up to their throats; and opposite them sat many children, who were born prematurely, weeping. And from them went forth rays of fire and smote the women on the eyes. These were those who produced children outside of marriage and who procured abortions."

"Those who slew the unborn children will be tortured forever, for God wills it to so." -
2:64
 
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