Intimacy

MarkSB said:

It has much more to it than just socially acceptable sex. It's about being joined before God at altar.

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Where were two people joined at altar in the Bible? Did man make that up too?

one11 said:

I never shaved my legs for society. I shaved them for me to look more attractive because I had very nice legs.

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Hmmm, maybe I should do that...

For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh.
-Genesis 2:24

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There might not have been a formal ceremony here, but the two were considered husband and wife and were bound together by God. This is the basis for the marriage relationship.

Some Jewish marital rights are also defined in Exodus 21:9-10

If he selects her for his son, he must grant her the rights of a daughter. 10 If he marries another woman, he must not deprive the first one of her food, clothing and marital rights. 11 If he does not provide her with these three things, she is to go free, without any payment of money.

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Women were usually "betrothed," that is, their father would select a man for her to marry and once they were betrothed, they would be considered legally bound to marry.

Jesus himself attended a Jewish wedding in the book of John:

On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding.
-John 2:1-2

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The apostle Paul indicates in his letter to the Corinthians, that the Christians there should abstain until they are formally married:

However, if they cannot control themselves, they should get married, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.
-1 Corinthians 7:9

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It's really a common thread throughout the text. No where in the bible is sex outside of marriage condoned.

Glad to hear that you are back together with your husband. Personally, I would view you situation as being a little different as you already were married and are now being reconciled. Maybe you could renew your vows just to make it official? Just a suggestion.

Best wishes.

Markus6 said:

Hmmm, maybe I should do that...

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dGirl1986 said:

So, how much intimacy should be allow in a relationship? Some think that kissing someone your not married to, even though your in a relationship, is sexually immorally. Some think that its ok to do everything minus the actual act of intercourse.

Thoughts? Opinions? Arguments for either side?

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I'll admit, I haven't read all of the responses (this is a long thread, sorry!), but here goes:


Intimacy can come in a few different forms, so let me just get that out of the way. Emotional intimacy can be just as difficult to refrain from - and heal from - as sexual or physical intimacy. I say "heal from" because when you are emotionally connected to someone, those feelings don't just go away until the next person comes along. Likewise, with physical intimacy. Once you've experienced it, you tend to crave it. This makes boundaries and self-discipline that much more important in guarding one's heart. True, not everyone requires emotional connections prior to having sexual relationships but I hope that I managed to identify and note the similarities, regardless.


That being said, you can never get a straight answer on what is "right" and what is "wrong" in these realms because relationships are relative to those in them. We are given basic guidelines by God and though, not as direct as some would like, I believe God is direct enough on how we should act (and react) to these desires - both pre- and post- marriage bed.

MarkSB said:

There might not have been a formal ceremony here, but the two were considered husband and wife and were bound together by God. This is the basis for the marriage relationship.

Some Jewish marital rights are also defined in Exodus 21:9-10



Women were usually "betrothed," that is, their father would select a man for her to marry and once they were betrothed, they would be considered legally bound to marry.

Jesus himself attended a Jewish wedding in the book of John:



The apostle Paul indicates in his letter to the Corinthians, that the Christians there should abstain until they are formally married:




It's really a common thread throughout the text. No where in the bible is sex outside of marriage condoned.

Glad to hear that you are back together with your husband. Personally, I would view you situation as being a little different as you already were married and are now being reconciled. Maybe you could renew your vows just to make it official? Just a suggestion.

Best wishes.

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Exodus 21 is about Hewbrew Servants though not getting married at an altar.

Thanks for your best wishes though.

Anyhow, do I have to get married because of some unseen "parliamentary" society?

I'm American. I don't believe in parliamentary.

MarkSB said:

Besides, your point contradicts itself since sex outside of marriage is, for the most part, acceptable by society's standards. Many non-religious people who get married simply look at it as a piece of paper.

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The Christian sub-culture is significant, and many members of that sub-culture regard those who engage in sex before marriage with suspicion and, in more extreme cases, disgust.

one11 said:

I never shaved my legs for society. I shaved them for me to look more attractive because I had very nice legs.

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There's nothing about hairy legs inherently that makes them unattractive. It's part of our society. Other societies might consider hairy legs attractive.

For example, American society considers a slim women more attractive than fat women, all other variables constant. This is not the case in some African cultures, where it is exactly opposite.

dGirl1986 said:

My opinion - legal marriage ftl.

Marriage in Gods eyes ftw

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I don't know what ftl and ftw mean?

Also, a biblical marriage is having sexual intercourse, consummation. Upon consummation, a man and a woman are married in God's eyes.

Not a piece of paper or a ceremony or a ring, or even a wedding dress to be white. The wedding feast was after the consummation happened because that was the marriage; it was now complete, and they celebrated. Marriage ceremonies can last a long time in some cultures. However, it is not "celebrated" until after the consummation of the man and the woman in some cultures, including the early Hebrews and Christians, too.

Tissue said:

The Christian sub-culture is significant, and many members of that sub-culture regard those who engage in sex before marriage with suspicion and, in more extreme cases, disgust.



There's nothing about hairy legs inherently that makes them unattractive. It's part of our society. Other societies might consider hairy legs attractive.

For example, American society considers a slim women more attractive than fat women, all other variables constant. This is not the case in some African cultures, where it is exactly opposite.

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Not true, I like bigger women.

one11 said:

I don't know what ftl and ftw mean?

Also, a biblical marriage is having sexual intercourse, consummation. Upon consummation, a man and a woman are married in God's eyes.

Not a piece of paper or a ceremony or a ring, or even a wedding dress to be white. The wedding feast was after the consummation happened because that was the marriage; it was now complete, and they celebrated. Marriage ceremonies can last a long time in some cultures. However, it is not "celebrated" until after the consummation of the man and the woman in some cultures, including the early Hebrews and Christians, too.

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for the loss
for the win

Tissue said:

The Christian sub-culture is significant, and many members of that sub-culture regard those who engage in sex before marriage with suspicion and, in more extreme cases, disgust.

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Personally, I wouldn't trust someone who called themselves a follower of Christ and engaged in premarital relations - and then going out and telling others their actions are according to scripture. They are only attempting to bend scripture to fit their actions. They will decieve to get what they want.

Nothing affects people spiritually more than sex outside marriage.

And when you say something is "socially acceptable," to most people that means it is generally accepted and even encouraged among most people. And in mainstream society, sexual immorality is practiced and in many cases encouraged. Loose treatment of one's body is of the world.

Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. "
-Romans 12:2

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But, because of sexual immoralities, let each man have his own wife, and let each woman have her own husband.
-1 Corinthians 7:2

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Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?
If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.
-1 Corinthians 3:16-17

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In the end you will regret taking that path. Going along with the world is easy and fun in the short run. Following God might be difficult, but that doesn't mean we should just give up and make up our own rules.

david_x said:

Not true, I like bigger women.

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It's only a tendency, not a logically necessary fact.

MarkSB said:

Personally, I wouldn't trust someone who called themselves a follower of Christ and engaged in premarital relations - and then going out and telling others their actions are according to scripture. They are only attempting to bend scripture to fit their actions. They will decieve to get what they want.

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I eat fried chicken. I don't say that the consumption of fried chicken is Scripturally-based.

Nothing affects people spiritually more than sex outside marriage.

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That's a pretty blurry and loose sentence that doesn't mean much until you define it and give examples.

And when you say something is "socially acceptable," to most people that means it is generally accepted and even encouraged among most people. And in mainstream society, sexual immorality is practiced and in many cases encouraged. Loose treatment of one's body is of the world.

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Society is deep with many different levels and parts. What is socially acceptable to one sub-culture is not socially acceptable to another.

Further, there are many different societies.

one11 said:

The LGBT isn't singing for it's lives. It's singing for benefits and reducing marriage TO benefits, which equals money.

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It's always easy to trivialize the lives of others.

That's how I see marriage now. I see marriage as benefits, and I don't need any benefits as far as health. I'm covered, and I don't have any benefits to offer my ex husband as far as monetarily. So why should I get married when there are no benefits?

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That's something only you can determine.

one11 said:

Why do I need to get married when

1) It's just a man-made custom

and

2) The Bible was written by man and can't be trusted.

Certainly, not a ring. He gave me hundreds of rings. Beautiful rings, and one special ring.

Once we get socialized medicine here too, what's the point of being married?

I have wills and things and so does my ex-husband including large life insurance, so why do we need to get married? It's just a man-made custom and there are many who say the Bible can't be trusted or was all made up.

So *shrug* what do I need to get married for?

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Nobody "needs" to.

Texas Lynn said:

Nobody "needs" to.

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"6Now as a concession, not a command, I say this. 7 I wish that all were as I myself am. But each has his own gift from God, one of one kind and one of another. 8To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single as I am. 9But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." - 1 Corinthians 7:6-9




According to the Holy Scriptures, some people need to.

MarkSB said:

Personally, I wouldn't trust someone who called themselves a follower of Christ and engaged in premarital relations - and then going out and telling others their actions are according to scripture. They are only attempting to bend scripture to fit their actions. They will decieve to get what they want.

Nothing affects people spiritually more than sex outside marriage.

And when you say something is "socially acceptable," to most people that means it is generally accepted and even encouraged among most people. And in mainstream society, sexual immorality is practiced and in many cases encouraged. Loose treatment of one's body is of the world.







In the end you will regret taking that path. Going along with the world is easy and fun in the short run. Following God might be difficult, but that doesn't mean we should just give up and make up our own rules.

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I'm not promoting premarital sex because there is no such thing. When you have consent to sexual intercourse, you are married in God's eyes.

Once we have sexual intercourse, we are one flesh period. Man made up the customs of the marriage ceremony, ring and all the expensive stuff that doesn't make a marriage. It makes an outward marriage, but consent to sexual intercourse called consummation is what makes a marriage legal in the eye's of God. So, some young people are led by incorrect thinking in regards to premarital sex. There is no such thing. Man invented that too in this modern era, so he could try before buying. That's the motto of today's modern world. "Try before buying", but it's a lie because there is no such thing as premarital sex. Oops, intercourse is marriage. Why doesn't society nor the church teach this?

1 Cor 6

15Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a prostitute? Never! 16Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh."

If the act of sex means that you are married, then how can there be fornication (sex outside of marriage), and why did Paul implore people to get married rather than allow themselves to fall into sin (giving into temptation and having sex). That implicitly requires that marriage come before the act of consummation.

I do, however agree, that when two are joined as one flesh, even outside of marriage, moving on to another partner is spiritual divorce.

UnderHisWings1979 said:

If the act of sex means that you are married, then how can there be fornication (sex outside of marriage), and why did Paul implore people to get married rather than allow themselves to fall into sin (giving into temptation and having sex). That implicitly requires that marriage come before the act of consummation.

I do, however agree, that when two are joined as one flesh, even outside of marriage, moving on to another partner is spiritual divorce.

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I think that scripture goes SINCE there IS SO MUCH sexual immorality, let each man have HIS OWN wife and each woman HAVE HER OWN husband. Sounds like they were sleeping around, dishonoring what the marriage covenant was, and Paul was telling them to make a choice of one person each out of all the people they were sleeping with.

People might be spiritually united when they have sex, but that doesn't make them married. The thing about about marriage is that it requires a binding commitment before sleeping with each other. This lets you know what the other person's true intentions are.

one11 said:

Sounds like they were sleeping around, dishonoring what the marriage covenant was, and Paul was telling them to make a choice of one person each out of all the people they were sleeping with.

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He says specifically,"It is better to marry than to burn with passion." "Burn with passion" doesn't imply to me that they were sleeping around. It means exactly what it says.