Homeschooling numbers climb 36% since 2003

Would be interesting to see a comparison of how public schools performed compared to homeschooling.

They're not burned out from education. [Homeschool students] have a real love for learning by and large, and they have an independence in their learning," said Tyler, a former homeschool resource and media consultant for B&H Publishing. "They sort of own their own education. I think that's important.

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Many kids get burned out from pUb.schools. Our school seems to believe the best way to increase the amount of stuff studied by pouring on the homework. ie home schooling while attending public school.

Public school needs alot of work, if either me or my wife could teach our kids we would be doing it.
We need public school teacher reform. Evaluate teachers, find better ways to educate kids, cheaper ways to teach, and get rid of the teachers that fail or burn out the kids. The excitement of learning once gone, is very hard to rekindle.
Most countrys spend less money, kids are better educated, and have less dropouts.

But our politicians are a broken record, more money, more money, more money.
Afraid to challenge the union that protects the worst teachers and keeps the best teachers in private schools.
No child should be sent to the hidden class room above the gym, to an old teacher that sits behind the desk and assigns chapters to read and hands out tests. (basically the teacher that dies in "fast times at Ridgemount high" and no one notices for several days. Was a good description of this guy, except he read books not the paper.) Basically just biding his time for retirement.

There is a big difference in public schools depending on location. Anyone who sends a normal kid to an inner city school should charged with child abuse.

I went to public school through high school, then private college, now at a public medical school.

I find that there are good public schools and bad public schools, good private schools and bad private schools. So I'm sure there are some homeschooled kids that are great, and others not so much. What I really hate is when people trash public/private and assume the alternative is so much better.

You know what? I can guarantee you a top notch school system if you provide me two things:

1. Top notch funding.
2. Some type of filtering mechanism (be it an entrance exam or a high priced housing district) that allows in only highly educated parents who raise equally motivated children.

The top schools, public or private have these two things in common. The highest SAT scores always falls on schools that are rich and/or selective---public or private. The schools that sends the most children to ivy league schools---again, always well funded schools with good students. And none of these features are the purview of public or private schools.

In other words, it's not the 'system' that's bad, it's the lack of funding and/or the lack of parental support that makes for many poorly performing schools.

The next time I hear someone berate a public school, I point to Stuyvesant high school in NYC, a selective public high school, which sent more students to Harvard than any other school in this country (and another 100 students to Cornell). I'm sure we can all point to the numerous top notch private schools that also sends many students to top colleges as well.

And I bet those students got opportunities that most homeschooled students do not have access to (professional level chemistry labs, dissection of fetal pigs, model UN, AP/IB classes, physics taught by physics majors etc).

Now, I know that not everyone has access to these top level schools, and I don't begrudge parents who want to homeschool, especially if they want to focus on teaching kids certain values they feel is missing in the local schools. But I also think it's unfair to paint all public school kids, or all private school kids with a broadbrush.

We aren't all bad. We didn't all drown in a cesspool of obcenities and sexual promiscuties. Some of us flourished in our public schools, some of us enjoyed our time in a private school. If anyone is to blame for poor academic performance, I'd blame it on the parents. Too many times, I've seen teachers trying to teach, only to be stymied by indifferent parents or lack of funding. Yes, there are horrible adminstrators/teachers....but that is true of any system, be it public, private, secular or religious. Even homeschool parents have flaws in teaching. I know it's a complete lie that parents are automatically better teachers than anyone else. My parents tried to tutor me in Chinese and math, the local Chinese parents ended up hiring a teacher because all of these graduate degreed individuals found teaching their own children near to impossible. I thank my lucky stars every day that my mom gave up on teaching me after the first year in this country. She was a horrible teacher (but great mother!).

All schools should be privatized. The government can't run itself... I'll be damned if I will trust them with educating my children.

Billnew said:

Would be interesting to see a comparison of how public schools performed compared to homeschooling.

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But how valid would a comparison be? There's a TON of confounding factors between the two. Most importantly, IMO, would be that you would expect parents who home school are, on average, more concerned with their child's education and will push harder for their kids to succeed. This is simply due to the effort it takes to home school, which would imply that any parent that chooses this path must care for their child's education, whereas public schools are diluted with the children of parents who don't really care. Same thing would apply to comparing children that go to private schools to children that go to public school.

Given that public schools are free, relatively effortless for the parents, and non-selective, one would expect them to have a much higher concentration of students who are at a natural disadvantage whether it be for economic, familial, or behavioral reasons which will skew the results down.

trunks2k said:

But how valid would a comparison be? There's a TON of confounding factors between the two. Most importantly, IMO, would be that you would expect parents who home school are, on average, more concerned with their child's education and will push harder for their kids to succeed. This is simply due to the effort it takes to home school, which would imply that any parent that chooses this path must care for their child's education, whereas public schools are diluted with the children of parents who don't really care. Same thing would apply to comparing children that go to private schools to children that go to public school.

Given that public schools are free, relatively effortless for the parents, and non-selective, one would expect them to have a much higher concentration of students who are at a natural disadvantage whether it be for economic, familial, or behavioral reasons which will skew the results down.

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Bingo. The valid comparison is how would the same kid (or group od kids) do homeschooled vrs in the public school they would otherwise attend.

For the averages to come out very bad for the public school system yuo can even have the 'typical' public school kid have concerned active parents, you just need a 10% at the bottom whose parents don't care to drag the numbers for a school down.

Hmm sort of like including all dropouts in the 'homeschooled' group.

I was in Private school for Jr High. But Highschool was at a public school. Same school any on my block would go to. It has gone far downhill. BUT it looks like there are more AP classes now than then. While I was there one could find good teachers easily. Now it may take a bit more work, but such exists and I'm confident a motivated student can find them.

But while that school has gone far downhill it is no where near as bad as many inner city schools. I'd bet even there good teachers can be found. But in hte worst of cases doing that might even prove a danger to the student in question. For sure there is more of a culture that does not support studying hard.

BlackAndy said:

All schools should be privatized. The government can't run itself... I'll be damned if I will trust them with educating my children.

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They can't even do that.

You're entirely right not to trust them.

BlackAndy said:

All schools should be privatized. The government can't run itself... I'll be damned if I will trust them with educating my children.

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No, we have a responsibility to provide public education because that is what civilized societies do. My kids will be in Catholic school but it doesn't change the fact that civilized societies believe in public education. To oppose it is to be uncivilized.

Phylogeny said:

1. Top notch funding.
2. Some type of filtering mechanism (be it an entrance exam or a high priced housing district) that allows in only highly educated parents who raise equally motivated children.

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I agree with some of what you said but have a different observation on some others,

We have all sorts of schools here. The city school system is terrible excempt for 2, the county schools are not bad and then there are plenty of good to great private schools.

The one thing in common with all of the schools that do well is parental involvement. The two ity schools that are good have parents that line up for 2-3 days, sleeping on the sidewalk to get their children a waiver to get in. The county schools are typically in higher income areas where parents are more involved with their kids and discipline at home is more strict. The private schools have similar or better parental involvement and poduce higher test scores, some for even less money than the city schools get per child.

My kids went to the county schools but we made it a point to go to the "meet the teacher" night early in the year and let the teachers know that we were there if they needed help with our kids. We did get a few phonecalls over the years(especially with the first of 4) and I feel that the teachers made a greater effort to help us because they knew they would be supported from our end. The twothat are in college are both on the Dean's List, so they seem to have gotten a good education from the county schools.

My sister has a teaching degree and homeschooled her kids until highschool. They scored a bit higher on their entrance exams but are a bit younger and just starting college, not setting records so far though

America school is a trash contrast to other industrialized nations WITH public education (i.e. Canada, South Korea, Japan.)

We ponder ourselves and often scratch our head asking, "Why does U.S. suck?" Sometimes I just snap my fingers and say, "Maybe Americans suck--not the system."

(this is not an insult, his is a intellectual comment with right thinking. Do not delete )

Do you want to see an improvement in the education system, there is one small step that would have huge reprocussions.

Teachers fail students if they underperform. Full stop.

Divisions handle the issues of "F"s in a diverse set of ways:

1) Student can't receive an F
2) Student can't fail grade
3) Student can't fail grade but can be held back at parent's request.

I think this severely overcomplicates the issue. If the work being done by the student does not conform to what the curriculum suggests is acceptable, that child fails. That failure should be determined by the teacher and supported by documentation (student work).

As it is, the quality of education is going further and further down because students of too low a calibre are being passed along. Also, I think that parents have to take on a larger role in educating their child since they will be the single greatest influence on the child's life (regardless of what they may believe). Just saying "teach it in the school system" assumes that time can be made for this. Current curriculae are overflowing with skill and knowledge expectations; adding new information should be done judiciously, not as a default.

People are quick to blame teachers, but the ugly truth of unmotivated, distant or misdirected parents has a far larger impact on a child than their teacher; regardless of how bad or good they may be.

What other people are mostly naive of is that schools in some other countries like Japan and South Korea absolutely try to push so much education on their children that it is an environment that is more stressful than American schools. Also, tests are not designed the same to measure grades in these countries. Each country can choose its own school system.

An example is on why some Asian countries score higher on math tests than Western classes has more to do with them teaching their kids quick mental math imagining using an abacus on addition, subtraction, simple multiplication, or division problems rather than taking time to input numbers into a calculator like most Western schools do.

Techniques of learning are different and the results of students being smarter in countries outside the U.S. overshadows the fact that the educational experience is more stressful, sometimes very emotionally taxing, compared to American schools.

Buzzbee said:

What other people are mostly naive of is that schools in some other countries like Japan and South Korea absolutely try to push so much education on their children that it is an environment that is more stressful than American schools. Also, tests are not designed the same to measure grades in these countries. Each country can choose its own school system.

An example is on why some Asian countries score higher on math tests than Western classes has more to do with them teaching their kids quick mental math imagining using an abacus on addition, subtraction, simple multiplication, or division problems rather than taking time to input numbers into a calculator like most Western schools do.

Techniques of learning are different and the results of students being smarter in countries outside the U.S. overshadows the fact that the educational experience is more stressful, sometimes very emotionally taxing, compared to American schools.

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Actually many Asian countries test only their top preforming students; while American test all thier students. That makes a big difference in what the test shows.

moonkitty said:

Actually many Asian countries test only their top preforming students; while American test all thier students. That makes a big difference in what the test shows.

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Or even testing all students who are still in school. A huge shift happened between my parents time in school and mine.

Actually many Asian countries test only their top preforming students; while American test all thier students. That makes a big difference in what the test shows.

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Source? Cause that wasn't true in my experience in S.Korea.

rambot said:

Source? Cause that wasn't true in my experience in S.Korea.

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Same here...never happened like that.
I got tested..just the same way as others did.

So many Asian students come overseas to Canada to study often do fairly well in math. Usually they are 80s or 90s. Easily. And they don't even do homework (which I envy...seriously). However, on other subjects, I have to say many of them lack "enthusiasm." Instead, they go and play game or ponder their time near their laptops.
Don't get me wrong...I know few Asian students that are exceptionally well...
actually..most of good students I knew were either Chinese (Hong Kong) or other places in Southeast Asia

I go to Korean Church (went) and every people I meet maintains MINIMUM of 90% average. (So every time I talk to Korean, I kinda expect that sort of disappointment)
....and that's in Canada.
Maybe Americans or Canadians (white/black/Hispanic) are less superior? lol

Phylogeny said:

I went to public school through high school, then private college, now at a public medical school.

I find that there are good public

.

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I wouldn't argue with you. I had good teachers and bad. Funding is a part of the equation, but weeding out the worst of teachers and failed
teaching plans is a big part too.
Some parents are more motivated to teach their kids, I can't teach them.
I know the answer, but I can't explain it to them. So home schooling isn't an option for us.

YoungJoonKim said:

America school is a trash contrast to other industrialized nations WITH public education (i.e. Canada, South Korea, Japan.)

We ponder ourselves and often scratch our head asking, "Why does U.S. suck?" Sometimes I just snap my fingers and say, "Maybe Americans suck--not the system."

(this is not an insult, his is a intellectual comment with right thinking. Do not delete )

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While a certain percentage wont be able to learn past a certain point, the majority of elementary schooling(k-12) is understandable to most. I also believe society is instilling learning disabilitys on our children. Short attention spans, ADD, quick and easy jobs for kids, means they don't have commitment to stay on task. OUr society doesn't contribute to good learning practices.
But like I said, when more is asked of teachers, they dump it on the kids to read and learn it outside of class, as homework. While if they need to practice something(like math problems) homework is great, but when they assign a chapter of history with no classroom time, or assign a math subject without teaching them how to do it. That is homework abuse.
Because if we wanted kids to learn from the book, we could hand them a book at the beginning of school and give them a test at the end.

moonkitty said:

Actually many Asian countries test only their top preforming students; while American test all thier students. That makes a big difference in what the test shows.

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I think I understand what you're saying but I think some people may have mistaken what you said.

In China, many high school aged students do not progress to a traditional college prep high school. Instead, may are sent to vocational/technical high school where they learn a trade. These students are not counted in exams which measures students their international counterparts. What gets measured are college bound students exclusively who were selected on merits of their grades and test scores.

It would be like if the US would only allow their top 30% of their students into high school while the rest goes to trade school. We'd have a much higher caliber of high school students wouldn't we?

I know that this specializing at the high school level used to be popular in S. Korea and Japan, can't say if that's true now. I know China has de-emphasized trade schools over traditional high schools the last few years.

Anyways, there are several reasons for why US schools underpform compared to other countries. Rigorous academic tracking is one reason. Others are cultural. As another poster pointed out, Asian schools which ranks top every year in international math and science exams are also very stressful for students. The emphasis on tests and rote memorization and doing well on the college entrance exam makes for not very well rounded students and very stressful high school years.

I think America has some of the best high schools in the world---but we also have some of the worst. It's this study in contrast that leads to our poor performance on the international stage.