Bomber's Martyrdom Tape Renews Fears Over Consequences of Closing Gitmo

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men...


The inmates at Guantanamo Bay are entitled to the same due process as anyone else under the US government. The US government has failed to provide that process.

Blame the Bush administration for ignoring due process of law and acting in a high-handed and immoral manner.


No one ever said doing what was right would always be convenient.

...

Anyway if you, OPer, think what is convenient is more important than what is right, then I imagine you are pro-choice.

What good is a secret prison to hold enemies of the state if everyone not only knows about it , but even knows its name and where it is?

Dogbean said:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,483764,00.html

It is beyond me why Obama wants to close this prison at GITMO and release the terrorists. This article states that most of the terrorists released have rejoined the fight against us.

I'm speechless at how dumb this is. Obama, you're a genius! You really are making America safer.

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Is "releasing terrorists" actually a stated part of the plan, or is that some extra added in hyperbole?

from wikipedia..

"Since October 7, 2001, when the current war in Afghanistan began, 775 detainees have been brought to Guantánamo. Of these, approximately 420 have been released without charge. As of May 2008, approximately 270 detainees remain.[10] More than a fifth are cleared for release but must nevertheless remain indefinitely because countries are reluctant to accept them.

Three have been convicted of various charges:

* David Hicks was found guilty under retrospective legislation introduced in 2006 of providing material support to terrorists in 2001.[11][12]
* Salim Hamdan took a job as chauffeur driving Osama bin Laden.[13]
* Ali al-Bahlul made a video celebrating the attack on the USS Cole (DDG-67).

Of those still incarcerated, U.S. officials said they intend to eventually put 60 to 80 on trial and free the rest."

So 1% are possibly guilty not a great statistic.

your own article Dogbean states

"Sixty-two detainees released from the U.S. Navy base prison in Cuba are believed to have rejoined the fight, said Pentagon spokesman Geoff Morrell, citing data from December. That's up from 37 as of March 2008, Morrell said."

which makes your statment

"this article states that most of the terrorists released have rejoined the fight against us. "

outright wrong..

Can you say that the ~=9% were all in the fight before they were scooped up; or maybe the 'harsh interrogation' techniques convinced some of them that it was a fight they should join?

Can we see a retraction?

Dogbean said:

Read the article. Some have already been released, and have already killed Americans in Iraq after their release. One released terrorist became an Al Quada chief!

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I don't doubt it. However, presumeably this guy was released because there was no evidence to charge him with?

What about all those released that HAVN'T gone on to kill anyone, American or otherwise? You think detaining innocent people is worthwhile if you manage to catch a guilty one in the process, say, 1 out of 10 times? I mean, thats a perfectly valid rationale, however it does run rather contrary to the "Freedom" ideal that this war is supposed to be about in the first place, doesn't it?

Dogbean said:

Now that's bull. We all know that the founding documents of the United States spell out the rights for US citizens! Terrorists don't get those rights, or due process. They don't deserve it. We treat terrorists better than some of our own citizens, and that is wrong. If you become a terrorist, or a criminal, you forfeit your rights.

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Do you not understand the inherent difference between a terrorist and an ACCUSED terrorist? Do you think someone should loose his rights merely for the crime of being an ACCUSED terrorist?

Oh, an before anyone says anything silly, I'm an Iraq veteran.

Dogbean said:

Now that's bull. We all know that the founding documents of the United States spell out the rights for US citizens! Terrorists don't get those rights, or due process. They don't deserve it. We treat terrorists better than some of our own citizens, and that is wrong. If you become a terrorist, or a criminal, you forfeit your rights.

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They are in your facilities which are run, theoretically, under the laws of your nation including due process and habeas corpus. 90% of them have never been ACCUSED of anything let alone gone to trial.

Yes, people who supported this lunacy of holding people for years with charge or trial are stupid. Just let them go.

CCGirl said:

Yes, people who supported this lunacy of holding people for years with charge or trial are stupid. Just let them go.

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What's your address again? I'd like them to settle in your neighborhood.

jsn112 said:

The mess hall won't miss you. You have to be on the battle field to appreciate the situation.

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Whiskey Tango Foxtrot over?

MichaelFJF said:

What's your address again? I'd like them to settle in your neighborhood.

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No one is saying release terrorists, but how about determining whether or not people are terrorists, rather than just holding them indefinately on suspicion of terrorism?

Lock up terrorists, by all means. Release the innocent. Determine which is which as a priority, then go from there. How can you possibly disagree with the prior statement?

Dogbean said:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,483764,00.html

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Dogbean said:

It is beyond me why Obama wants to close this prison at GITMO and release the terrorists.

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He doesn't want to release the terrorist, he wants to release the ones who arn't terrorist and actually charge the ones who are terrorists.

This article states that most of the terrorists released have rejoined the fight against us.

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the article doesn't say that, actually.

Is it possible for you to construct a rational argument without lying?

I have to agree this a very, very bad move. It's like a reversal of any progess that has actually been made.

kiwimac said:

They are in your facilities which are run, theoretically, under the laws of your nation including due process and habeas corpus. 90% of them have never been ACCUSED of anything let alone gone to trial.

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it's even worse than this. The Obama admin has stated that the previous admin hadn't even maintained case files on some of the detainees. They literally have no idea why many of them are even there. The incompetence of the Bush admin is simply astounding.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/24/AR2009012401702.html

Ambular said:

I have to agree this a very, very bad move. It's like a reversal of any progess that has actually been made.

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What progress??

CCGirl said:

What progress??

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Hey, I'm just as much against this war as the next person, but no matter how much any of us deny it, there has been some progress in the "fight against terror". My husband is a Marine -- he's been over in the sandbox, and there HAVE been some positive moments in all of this mess.