The Gaza Conflict

From the BBC

This and many other news reports describe the conflict in Gaza; war is always horrible and completely contrary to Christian principles of peace and love.

But how should Christians react to this conflict? How do we separate that which is completely contrary to Christian principles from that which is a necessary response to terror?

A few comments:

1. This war started because of the indiscriminate firing of rockets into southern Israel- and this firing continues. This is absolutely wrong, and no state would ever tolerate such aggression and is justified in trying to stop it.

2. Israel's nuclear facilities at Dimona are only about 70 km from Gaza City- this also likely factors into why they are so concerned about rocket fire.

3. It seems that a primary purpose of Gaza is to be a forward base for terrorist operations against Israel. Why else would the Palestinians there put so much effort into building tunnels across the border to Egypt and smuggling all sorts of weapons into Gaza? Why are the Israelis finding thousands of tons of weapons in all sorts of buildings, including mosques?

Given these facts, how should the world respond? I know that it is the Israelis doing the dirty work, but the war against terror is something that every nation needs to support. But how should war against terror be conducted so that it is both effective against terrorists, but also upholds the Christian values that it is trying to uphold?

Servant of Jesus said:

From the BBC

This and many other news reports describe the conflict in Gaza; war is always horrible and completely contrary to Christian principles of peace and love.

But how should Christians react this conflict? How do we separate that which is completely contrary to Christian principles from that which is a necessary response to terror?

A few comments:

1. This war started because of the indiscriminate firing of rockets into southern Israel- and this firing continues. This is absolutely wrong, and no state would ever tolerate such aggression and is justified in trying to stop it.

2. Israel's nuclear facilities at Dimona are only about 70 km from Gaza City- this also likely factors into why they are so concerned about rocket fire.

3. It seems that a primary purpose of Gaza is to be a forward base for terrorist operations against Israel. Why else would the Palestinians there put so much effort into building tunnels across the border to Egypt and smuggling all sorts of weapons into Gaza? Why are the Israelis finding thousands of tons of weapons in all sorts of buildings, including mosques?

Given these facts, how should the world respond? I know that it is the Israelis doing the dirty work, but the war against terror is something that every nation needs to support. But how should war against terror be conducted so that it is both effective against terrorists, but also upholds the Christian values that it is trying to uphold?

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HOW WE RESPOND:

LET GOD BE TRUE

Isa 55:6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near.

KJV Zech 12:3
And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.



Those that bless Israel will be blessed.

Those that burden themselves with Israel will be cut in pieces.

Zechariah 12


1The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
2Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem.
3And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.
4In that day, saith the LORD, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.
5And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the LORD of hosts their God.
6In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.
7The LORD also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.
8In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
9And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.
10And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.
11In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.
12And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;
13The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; 14All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.

FOLLOW JESUS CHRIST.

Jesus is the Truth, The Way, The Gate & The Life.

With Love,
- Jefell

I agree.

Matthew 5: 8-10

9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.

Unfortunately, it seems that sometimes, peacemakers have to take up arms and become involved in conflict to maintain the peace.

Israel is a wonderful, peaceful country where Jews and Palestinians co-exist in harmony, despite their differences- why can't those in Gaza learn to do the same?

Servant of Jesus said:

I agree.

Matthew 5: 8-10

9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.

Unfortunately, it seems that sometimes, peacemakers have to take up arms and become involved in conflict to maintain the peace.

Israel is a wonderful, peaceful country where Jews and Palestinians co-exist in harmony, despite their differences- why can't those in Gaza learn to do the same?

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I guess there is more than Palestinians that are involved in this. My View is that there are many Nations in Around Israel that don't want that country to exist. Unfortunately most of them are all Muslim or the Arab countries. Many of them support Terrorism openly and even sponsor their own Gov't money for that cause. While the rest of their citizens in their own countries are reeling into poverty and Injustices they take it as an advantage and use even teens and below teens for this cause. I cannot describe the horrifying condition that the palestinians are going through in Gaza as a result of all these other terrorist sponsoring countries. My point is that Israel has the right to defend itself.

No one has the right to defend themselves when the civilian population is targeted in acts of bloody revenge.

Israel is in danger of becoming the terrorist state that was Afghanistan.

wayseer said:

No one has the right to defend themselves when the civilian population is targeted in acts of bloody revenge.

Israel is in danger of becoming the terrorist state that was Afghanistan.

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Who is worse: the terrorist groups who use civilians as shields? Or the country who bombs them anyway?

Related to this topic is a great quote from John Stewart Mill:
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks nothing is worth war is much worse; the person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing that is more important than his own personal safety is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

Servant of Jesus said:

From the BBC
This and many other news reports describe the conflict in Gaza; war is always horrible and completely contrary to Christian principles of peace and love.
But how should Christians react this conflict? How do we separate that which is completely contrary to Christian principles from that which is a necessary response to terror?

Click to expand...

Necessary to whom? Necessary to Christians who supposedly died on the cross at Calvary with Jesus and are awaiting his return? Why should fear of death scare us as it does the unsaved?

A violent response to violence are the actions of a coward who is afraid to die. These are not the actions of a faithful Christian--period.

Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. 2 Cor. 5:1-7

There is no just war. God will not bless America or save the Queen. No Christian fights for justice with a sword made of metal--the only weapon we have is the sword of the Spirit--the Word of God.

May you become a master of this sword so that you may fight the principalities and dark powers of this world and be a true defender of the faith.

Israel is pursuing a strategy that may win the battles but will never win the peace. In conditions like those in Gaza, air and artillery will always take civilian casualties and breed long-term hatred among the people.
Counterterrorism must be specifically targeted at terrorists; and that means commando and infantry ops with the attendant risk of high casualties. These are the price of victory.
We saw both in England and Germany in World War Two, and in North Vietnam in the late 1960s and early 1970s: the high civilian casualties that go with even well-targeted aerial bombardment do not induce the enemy's civilians to seek peace; but to seek vengeance.

spidergains said:

Necessary to whom? Necessary to Christians who supposedly died on the cross at Calvary with Jesus and are awaiting his return? Why should fear of death scare us as it does the unsaved?

A violent response to violence are the actions of a coward who is afraid to die. These are not the actions of a faithful Christian--period.

Now we know that if the earthly tent we live in is destroyed, we have a building from God, an eternal house in heaven, not built by human hands. Meanwhile we groan, longing to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, because when we are clothed, we will not be found naked. For while we are in this tent, we groan and are burdened, because we do not wish to be unclothed but to be clothed with our heavenly dwelling, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. Now it is God who has made us for this very purpose and has given us the Spirit as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come. Therefore we are always confident and know that as long as we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord. We live by faith, not by sight. 2 Cor. 5:1-7

There is no just war. God will not bless America or save the Queen. No Christian fights for justice with a sword made of metal--the only weapon we have is the sword of the Spirit--the Word of God.

May you become a master of this sword so that you may fight the principalities and dark powers of this world and be a true defender of the faith.

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Fear of death for us, I think, has little or nothing to do with Gaza. We are over here and talking about the "war" over there.
I cannot speak for anyone but myself, however, would it be safe to say this is more of a question of whom we should defend? The traditional Jews do not believe Jesus was the son of God, yet they are His chosen people. Should we not side with them? Or is it not our place to make such decisions?

Luke 22:36 "And he said to them...'If you do not have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.'"
Psalm 144:1 "Praise be to the Lord my rock; he prepares my hands for battle, and my fingers for war."

wayseer said:

No one has the right to defend themselves when the civilian population is targeted in acts of bloody revenge.

Israel is in danger of becoming the terrorist state that was Afghanistan.

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Yes that is what will happen when they fire rockets unnecessarily into Israel while they honored the Peace treaty with gaza and the other's provoke them with rocket fire just to test and see if they are working. On 26/11/2008 the whole world has seen how Indiscriminate the terrorist's are when they attacked the Indian Financial city Mumbai. Who are Targeted? Its the civilians and common man in the streets and business men and tourists in the Hotels. Not the Indian Military or the armed forces. These terrorists want to Kill people or fight against people that don't have any arms to defend for themselves. Don't you think My country India has the right to defend from these terrorists. Of course the answer is "Yes". Israel is a small country almost every second endangered by Extinction from most of the Arab countries either Directly or Indirectly. The only way they could ever inflict harm on Israel is palestine. That's what they are doing. The people of palestine are beign used by these provoking states against Israel. The commando forces and secret service agents work only in films. This is a real time war. Hamas is a Terrorist force getting Funding and resources from all those Arab countries that want to Extinct Israel from the Map. I am sorry i have to strongly disagree with you. If Israel was to keep quite we will be discussing sympathy messages for Israel on this Board.

Predictably, Ismail Haniyeh, the Hamas leader in Gaza has declared that the Palestinians have achieved a great "victory" in its war with Israel. Reuters also reports that Haniyeh also said that Israel's efforts were a "failure"- presumably because some radical Palestinians will still continue to be able to fire rockets into Israel.

This is the same guy who earlier declared:

"Victory comes to those who believe in Allah and carry out his commandments," he added, citing several verses from the Koran.

"We have confidence in Allah because He's on our side. We are nearing victory over the Zionist war machine. After 17 days of fighting, I can say that the Gaza Strip and faith will prevail. With Allah's help, the Palestinian people will prevail over the infidels."

The only "victory" here is that Mr. Haniyeh was able to build hundreds of smuggling tunnels from Egypt, and import thousands of tons of weapons into Gaza. Imagine if those same efforts had gone into improving the lot of the Palestinians. I hope the Egyptians are hanging their heads in shame for allowing this travesty to occur right under their noses.

For that, and the hardship and destruction Haniyeh has wrought on the ordinary Palestinian people, he can be justly proud.

Some god he's counting on- sounds like satan to me, and his followers are nothing more than soldiers of the devil- and that includes those at the other end supplying the weapons.

josephrobert said:

Don't you think My country India has the right to defend from these terrorists. Of course the answer is "Yes".

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But I also note that India has not gone on a bombing and killing rampage against Pakistan.

wayseer said:

But I also note that India has not gone on a bombing and killing rampage against Pakistan.

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Yes so Far India hasn't attacked. But patience cannot be taken as weakness. These terrosists have no heart for Humanity. All they want is destruction. The case with India is different than Israel. India is one of the Largest Democracies and economies in Asia. Nobody has ever issued a statement that we will wipe out India from the Map in this world. Except Pakistan nobody is Building Nuclear warheads to destroy India. Now lets take the case of Israel: Almost every Arab state that is around Israel has or had issued statements like they would wipe out Israel from the Map. Israel is a very tiny nation in the midst of all these great Arab powers. If you looked into history Syria,Jordan,Egypt,Lebonon,Iraq and Iran etc., have attacked Israel either directly or Indirectly and have faced shameful Defeat. Now they have changed their tactics. Now they are using Palestinians for their cause. We have to understand that palestinians are being used up for all terrorist causes by not just the above mentioned countries. May be we will not understand anything just by passing messages in this Board. Almost every western country that have Visited Israel have said that Israel has every right to defend. Because they know the ground realty of the struggle and pressure that Israel is going through every second. For us it's just a discussion point in this Board.

josephrobert said:

Yes so Far India hasn't attacked. But patience cannot be taken as weakness. These terrosists have no heart for Humanity.

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Exactly - it is not Pakistan or Palestine that is the problem - it is the terrorists. Therefore, to take out acts of revenge on the country rather than the terrorists plays directly into the hands of the terrorists.

The IRA used the same tactics for decades until the Unionists decided NOT to retaliate and the IRA was seen for the murderous thugs they were. Consequently, Gerry Adams had no choice but to order a halt to the terror attacks and join everyone else around the table.

Eventually Israel will have to follow the example of the Ulster Unionists and learn NOT to retaliate when provoked.

wayseer said:

Eventually Israel will have to follow the example of the Ulster Unionists and learn NOT to retaliate when provoked.

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I agree to this point. The problem between Israel and palestine is not just for the last 50 or 60 years. Its been there since the Grand old testament days. I have no hope it will end soon. It can only end when all the Terrorists Govt's in and around Israel agree and respect Israel as a separate state and protect it existence.

We cannot compare IRA or ETA or even LET in Kashmir to what Israel is going through. They never were sponsored by Govt's to destroy a country from Map of this planet. But the terrorists in Palestine are sponsored by such Govt's. Just gain the attention from all Arab world they are using the common civilians as their Human Sheilds whenever they are attacked. I would say Israel has every right to use force.

We keep forgetting that fully 20% of Israel's population is Palestinian- and they live in peaceful co-existence with their Jewish neighbors.

So it is possible for the two nations to live in peace and it is only a few radical terrorists in Gaza who I am convinced are soldiers of the devil that are trying to create havoc.

The Palestinians in the West Bank have it right- reject violence and embrace compromise and you will truly benefit the people. Egypt took the first bold step when they agreed to a peaceful co-existence with Israel, followed by Jordan. Hopefully, the Palestinians in Gaza will now also embrace peace and accept that a peaceful co-existence with Israel is the only way to achieve greatness.