God is GOOD...not bad.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

didaskalos said:
Not even close...
My head is much harder than yours.

I understand..

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

frank...

do you agree that God is behind everything,and in control,a fact that your op omitted in the tightly worded phrasology,God uses all things to teach us?

Job..

Pharaoh..

Lazarus...

And many saints on the earth today,who have stood on the word,confessed,prayed,asked,had jands layed on them,etc...

Is he in charge or not?

FrankFaith · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
sigh......

Numbers 12

1 Miriam and Aaron began to talk against Moses because of his Cushite wife, for he had married a Cushite. 2 "Has the LORD spoken only through Moses?" they asked. "Hasn't he also spoken through us?" And the LORD heard this. 3 (Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)
4 At once the LORD said to Moses, Aaron and Miriam, "Come out to the Tent of Meeting, all three of you." So the three of them came out. 5 Then the LORD came down in a pillar of cloud; he stood at the entrance to the Tent and summoned Aaron and Miriam. When both of them stepped forward, 6 he said, "Listen to my words:
"When a prophet of the LORD is among you,
I reveal myself to him in visions,
I speak to him in dreams.
7 But this is not true of my servant Moses;
he is faithful in all my house.
8 With him I speak face to face,
clearly and not in riddles;
he sees the form of the LORD.
Why then were you not afraid
to speak against my servant Moses?"
9 The anger of the LORD burned against them, and he left them.
10 When the cloud lifted from above the Tent, there stood Miriamleprous, like snow. Aaron turned toward her and saw that she had leprosy; 11 and he said to Moses, "Please, my lord, do not hold against us the sin we have so foolishly committed. 12 Do not let her be like a stillborn infant coming from its mother's womb with its flesh half eaten away."
13 So Moses cried out to the LORD, "O God, please heal her!"
14 The LORD replied to Moses, "If her father had spit in her face, would she not have been in disgrace for seven days? Confine her outside the camp for seven days; after that she can be brought back." 15 So Miriam was confined outside the camp for seven days, and the people did not move on till she was brought back.

For one thing, God wasn't even there. He had already left, then, when the cloud left the top of the tent, she had lepracy. Nowhere does it say that God put it on her. This seems like a sowing and reaping type event to me.

The bottom line is that scripture doesn't say that God put it on her. If He had, it would have been the first--and the last time--that this had happened!

Surely there must be a more definitive example if everything the opposition believes is based upon Him PUTTING sickness and disease on His people for the purpose of teaching or chastising.

Please try again.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

didaskalos said:
In the context of the passage, rain is a good thing not a bad. It causes crops to germinate and grow to fruit. What the author is saying is that God BLESSES the just and the unjust... not that He curses the just and the unjust.

I disagree.

Rain is neither good nor bad. IF we want to do something and the rain puts our plans askew (like a picnic for instance), we say that the rain is bad. The same rainfall would be called good by a farmer.

This verse is intended to show that God deals equally with everyone, that He does not show favoritism.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
I disagree.

Rain is neither good nor bad. IF we want to do something and the rain puts our plans askew (like a picnic for instance), we say that the rain is bad. The same rainfall would be called good by a farmer.

This verse is intended to show that God deals equally with everyone, that He does not show favoritism.

interesting point..

Then is evil relative?

JimfromOhio · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
I disagree.

Rain is neither good nor bad. IF we want to do something and the rain puts our plans askew (like a picnic for instance), we say that the rain is bad. The same rainfall would be called good by a farmer.

This verse is intended to show that God deals equally with everyone, that He does not show favoritism.

Reps for you.

Forum Cruiser · Jan 13, 2009

Well Frank if God is the creator of the universe and the definer of all things then if He considers Himself good and proclaims Himself good then we really cannot argue. There are some people that out of rebellion would beg to differ based on their personal experiences.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

Is evil relative?
Who was behind it all?

Genesis 50:20
"As for you, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good in order to bring about this present result, to preserve many people alive.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

FrankFaith said:
For one thing, God wasn't even there. He had already left, then, when the cloud left the top of the tent, she had lepracy. Nowhere does it say that God put it on her. This seems like a sowing and reaping type event to me.

The bottom line is that scripture doesn't say that God put it on her. If He had, it would have been the first--and the last time--that this had happened!

Surely there must be a more definitive example if everything the opposition believes is based upon Him PUTTING sickness and disease on His people for the purpose of teaching or chastising.

Please try again.

So if God did not inflict Miriam with leprosy, who did? You have no answer for that, because the only feasible answer for that question is that God did this. However, you cannot accept this, as it would mean changing your point of view.

If this is a sowing and reaping situation, who makes the seed grow so that we reap what we sow?

GOD!!!!

God was there, and when He left, Miriam had leprosy. You can choose to explain it away, but that is what happened.

If that is not enough for you, then consider the son born to David and Bathsheba. Scripture says that the Lord struck the child and he became ill, because of the sin of David, the killing of Uriah. (2 Samuel 12)

Basically, your premise that God does not inflict disease and sickness on His people, is wrong, because He does.

Here is another example, in case you still persist in saying that God does not inflict His people with sickness, and disease for the purpose of chastening or teaching them.

Numbers 21

4 They traveled from Mount Hor along the route to the Red Sea, [c] to go around Edom. But the people grew impatient on the way; 5 they spoke against God and against Moses, and said, "Why have you brought us up out of Egypt to die in the desert? There is no bread! There is no water! And we detest this miserable food!" 6 Then the LORD sent venomous snakes among them; they bit the people and many Israelites died. 7 The people came to Moses and said, "We sinned when we spoke against the LORD and against you. Pray that the LORD will take the snakes away from us." So Moses prayed for the people.
8 The LORD said to Moses, "Make a snake and put it up on a pole; anyone who is bitten can look at it and live." 9 So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, he lived.

HoneyComb Son · Jan 13, 2009

Sigh

this thread is saddening, yet only proves what goes on daily, day after day

You know, I will be honest, from what some of you said on what suffering is and goodnes, using evil for good, God 'allowing' it for some purpose etc etc

from what you have said, I hope that I never meet you, LOL in all honestly,'

If that is what you believe about goodnes, life and God, what He does,

dont encourage me, dont be around me.

You wont bring life, but hurt and death to people, sorry to be blunt.

You know its honestly, sickening, what some of us christians believe on goodness and what love is.

for petes sake, GOOD IS GOOD! LOVE IS LOVE, there is EVIL or BADNESS In GOOD, you cannot turn darkness in with light, because it wont be light anymore, it will be a shade, and we know God is light, and there is no darkness in Him,

if but what I read on this thread. God allows stuff, sends trials my way the way some of you explain it. Are we not suppose to be images of Christ. IF then, lets all allow the poor person to learn, lets not help him, for it will not be in Gods will. Let all us not help someone for we might be going against Gods will! let the person learn, suffer!

sigh

I dont know every much at all. but as a Son of God, my own brothers and sisters condemn, we are one of the most judgemental people, not even willing to admit we are wrong, self-righteous people. COMPASSION, ACCEPTANCE LOVE!! is what we are. we dont tolerate sin, BUT we do meet people where they are, with HOPE! and LOVE! Because its God who changes people, not us!

oh well, the human mind again, if it feels right, looks right, logic seems right, everyone says its right, must be right eh?

yet the guy next door believes another thing, yet he is right in his own mind.

hey evern Hilter was right in his mind, look at the lot who followed him?

God bless

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

Forum Cruiser said:
Well Frank if God is the creator of the universe and the definer of all things then if He considers Himself good and proclaims Himself good then we really cannot argue. There are some people that out of rebellion would beg to differ based on their personal experiences.

interesting..

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

pinetree said:
interesting point..

Then is evil relative?

Absolutely!!! It's all relative to God. God is the standard, the absolute standard, and only when we compare things to Him, can we truly know if something is good, or evil.

The only time you can truly define something as good or evil, is relative to God Himself. If you compare any action to something other than God, your conclusion as to whether the action is good or evil, is not to be trusted, because your standard is faulty to begin with.

That is why Jesus rebuked Peter, when he said He would not allow Jesus to go to the cross. From Peter's point of view, that was the good thing to do. However, he did not know God's plan for Jesus,a nd had to be rebuked, because he was trying to stop what God had willed to happen.

Joseph knew this when he told his brothers that their selling him was meant for evil, but God used it for good.

JimfromOhio · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
Absolutely!!! It's all relative to God. God is the standard, the absolute standard, and only when we compare things to Him, can we truly know if something is good, or evil.

The only time you can truly define something as good or evil, is relative to God Himself. If you compare any action to something other than God, your conclusion as to whether the action is good or evil, is not to be trusted, because your standard is faulty to begin with.

That is why Jesus rebuked Peter, when he said He would not allow Jesus to go to the cross. From Peter's point of view, that was the good thing to do. However, he did not know God's plan for Jesus,a nd had to be rebuked, because he was trying to stop what God had willed to happen.

Joseph knew this when he told his brothers that their selling him was meant for evil, but God used it for good.

more reps for you

God marks out the paths of all His creatures and determines the way in which they will walk. I know O Lord that a man's way is not in himself; nor is it in a man who walks to direct his steps (Jer.10:23).

This is my belief: Sovereign is complete control by God, in all circumstances including our own lives. Jesus said "Are not two sparrows sold for a copper coin? And not one of them falls to the ground apart from your Father's will. But the very hairs of your head are all numbered." (Matthew 10:29-30)

Cassidy · Jan 13, 2009

You don't think you're taking this a bit too personally? We are merely discussing things here.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
Absolutely!!! It's all relative to God. God is the standard, the absolute standard, and only when we compare things to Him, can we truly know if something is good, or evil.

The only time you can truly define something as good or evil, is relative to God Himself. If you compare any action to something other than God, your conclusion as to whether the action is good or evil, is not to be trusted, because your standard is faulty to begin with.

That is why Jesus rebuked Peter, when he said He would not allow Jesus to go to the cross. From Peter's point of view, that was the good thing to do. However, he did not know God's plan for Jesus,a nd had to be rebuked, because he was trying to stop what God had willed to happen.

Joseph knew this when he told his brothers that their selling him was meant for evil, but God used it for good.

I agree..

But..
The act can still be evil..

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

HoneyComb Son said:
Sigh

this thread is saddening, yet only proves what goes on daily, day after day

You know, I will be honest, from what some of you said on what suffering is and goodnes, using evil for good, God 'allowing' it for some purpose etc etc

from what you have said, I hope that I never meet you, LOL in all honestly,'

If that is what you believe about goodnes, life and God, what He does,

dont encourage me, dont be around me.

You wont bring life, but hurt and death to people, sorry to be blunt.

You know its honestly, sickening, what some of us christians believe on goodness and what love is.

for petes sake, GOOD IS GOOD! LOVE IS LOVE, there is EVIL or BADNESS In GOOD, you cannot turn darkness in with light, because it wont be light anymore, it will be a shade, and we know God is light, and there is no darkness in Him,

if but what I read on this thread. God allows stuff, sends trials my way the way some of you explain it. Are we not suppose to be images of Christ. IF then, lets all allow the poor person to learn, lets not help him, for it will not be in Gods will. Let all us not help someone for we might be going against Gods will! let the person learn, suffer!

sigh I dont know every much at all. but as a Son of God, my own brothers and sisters condemn, we are one of the most judgemental people, not even willing to admit we are wrong, self-righteous people. COMPASSION, ACCEPTANCE LOVE!! is what we are. we dont tolerate sin, BUT we do meet people where they are, with HOPE! and LOVE! Because its God who changes people, not us!

oh well, the human mind again, if it feels right, looks right, logic seems right, everyone says its right, must be right eh?

yet the guy next door believes another thing, yet he is right in his own mind.

hey evern Hilter was right in his mind, look at the lot who followed him?

God bless

I have no doubt that God is good. However, what you define as good does not fit with what God does.

God sent His own Son to die for us. In the context of what you are saying, what God did cannot be good, because Jesus died.

The thing is, that death was the purest expression of love this world has ever, and will ever see. It was the ultimate expression of God's love, that Christ died for us while we were still sinners.

You come across as saying that we should not accept suffering as our lot. Scripture says that if we do not suffer with Christ, then we will not share in His glory.

Your choice, my friend. You must find the faith to accept this, that the road we must follow is not the wide, easy one, but the narrow, hard one.

NaLuvena · Jan 13, 2009

pinetree said:
I agree..

But..
The act can still be evil..

Not if we use the correct standard.

pinetree · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena said:
Not if we use the correct standard.[/quote
the act of murder is still evil,or robbery..,sure God can use all things for Good..but the joseph verse does not deny it was evil..
Was a crucifiction evil?

HoneyComb Son · Jan 13, 2009

NaLuvena, and others dont misundstand me, I know the bible says suffering and glorying in Christ, i know that.

the matter of fact is, how do you know you are right? is your interptation of the bible correct? that is the question

the thing is, you believe what you believe is right, however there are people who believe otherwise, they believe they are right. etc

its suppose to be about love. what you guys are right, if you read the bible I can see how one might believe what you do, heck I was there, still am to a degree. However, I am learning that what I thought was right, is not right at all. are you open to being wrong?

its disheartening to keep people misunderstand me, just because you are right in your eyes does not make it so. I am no bible scholar, but I dont have to be to see you mis use scripture in order to "prove" what you believe.

if you want to believe what you believe so be it. I am not a judge. however, be open to being wrong, heck I could be wrong. in fact I am wrong in many things..lol

However, I see something wrong, and it does not line up with the little i know of scripture. love is love, good is good.

if you want to add evil into good, darkness into light, so be it. but you are Human, we make many mistakes. The Holy Spirit is the teach of Truth. we need to go by God's word, but by the relevation of His Spirit that brings the word to what it is suppose to be. anyone can read the word and think they know the truth, however, you wont Understand it unless The Holy Spirit explains it to you as it suppose to be.

I dont know it all. And I am in need heavily of myself in Hearing The Spirits leading,

but maybe im on the right track, however I know enough from what I read in God's word, that someething is wrong in your teachings of this,

YES God can bring goodness and bring goodness out of evil that has become on you
however He wants good for for you, not harm, He does discipline us, with word, and other ways, but not how you teach, I dont know it all, but what word says to me, from the little I understand it, something is wrong what you say.

The fruit of Spirit is love, gentleness, kindness patience etc. maybe we can use that in weighing what is of God and not. God is love

if you want to believe what you believe, be images of God, then do what you believe to other people..lol see how it goes

Cassidy · Jan 13, 2009

I think the thing that people are doing is looking at the bible as a whole. You say God is love and that we should weigh him up by the fruits of the spirit...I would agree with you...

However..

In the bible God is also described as the God of wrath and that he is a jealous God. He gets angry too...but even these descriptions, even though they are describing a loving God...they are still right because they are 'good'...and still describe a good God.

No one on this thread has ever called God evil EVER but we do recognise that in a lot of the OT...he may not have 'appeared' to be a very nice God...even though he was nice and good and loving and all those things too.

God is GOOD...not bad.

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