A condition for being in heaven...

Grega said:

I need to ask this question before I ask my next and so:

Is it true that to be in heaven you have to be 'perfect'?, and has it always been this way? (always been this way from your god's perspective that is)

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How do you mean "perfect"?

Jesus Christ concludes chptr 5 of Matthew in vs 48 & it is translated in the New King James vsn as, "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect." The beginning of Matthew 5 is the Beatitudes & the portion of the Sermon on the Mount preached between these and Matthew 5:48 how we are to conduct ourselves in this earthly life to lead to that future state. The passage in the King James, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" means the same but the wording is a little archaic. My 2 cents. Later add here: also see Romans 12:2 & a read of the whole chapter 12 of Romans offers explanation of how we ar to use our God given abilities in conformity to Christ in our earthly life. 2 more cents.

Grega said:

Good counter question...this very question lies at the heart of my next question and so given that my answer is that "I will proceed with the concensus of opinion" I put it it to you pastorJim, how would you define "perfect" in this context?

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I'm trying to answer your question but I don't understand how you're defining "perfect". If you'll answer that for me, I'll try to answer your question.

Jesus tells us, "Be ye perfect, even as you Father in Heaven is perfect" and the book of Hebrews goes on to tell us that those of us who are born again are sanctified and made perfect.

However, until I know what you mean by "perfect", I don't know if those are appropriate answers to your question.

Grega said:

I need to ask this question before I ask my next and so:

Is it true that to be in heaven you have to be 'perfect'?, and has it always been this way? (always been this way from your god's perspective that is)

Click to expand...

MY BROTHER--The answer to your question is "NO"--a perfect Christian, in and of themselves, is an oxymoron.

However, our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ is perfect and, as Christians, we are incorporated--literally--into Him, and it is IN HIM that we experience perfection, and it is IN HIM that we are carried into the presence of God--heaven, if you will. Jesus, in effect, is our wedding garment as per Matthew 22:1-14.

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

I will replace the word perfect in the OP with "sinless" as my interpretation of his question and in that manner I would say this is what the Bible teaches:

To attain heaven apart from the redemptive work of Christ one must live a completely sinless life. None has ever lived a life of such sinlessness, except for Jesus, God incarnate. He paid the price that we could not, and through faith in Him, by the grace of God, we no longer have to strive for perfection to attain heaven but rather we can attain heaven by placing our faith and trust in Christ.

Now, we as believers should strive towards holiness and righteousness, nad sinlessness. We will never attain such a state this side of eternity, but we should be striving for it.

Grega said:

I need to ask this question before I ask my next and so:

Is it true that to be in heaven you have to be 'perfect'?, and has it always been this way? (always been this way from your god's perspective that is)

Click to expand...

As an addendum to my previous answer to your question, let me add a further throught, please:

"Let us never think that holiness means infallibility--the perfect man is nonexistent. Holiness is in the area of struggle, not perfection. No one is perfect except God. Human perfection does not exist. What exists is the struggling man, the one who keeps striving, who continues to "hunger and thirst after righteousness." We must understand this. I say this because at times we may think that holiness, which is our calling by the way, is so far out of our grasp that it is unattainable. This is not so. It is a delusion and the work of the devil, to tell us that holiness is unrealistic and we cannot reach it. The devil wants to destroy us. No, my friends, do not listen to this. Holiness in in the struggle!"

In other words, being in heaven is the product of striving for that goal and, at the same time, relying on God's Grace to allow His Son to carry us Home on His shoulders like the 100th sheep.(Matthew 18:12-14)

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

Hi, Grega and all,

Yes, I think I have to be perfect to be in heaven.
I also think that once I accepted God's gift of eternal life through Jesus Christ, I have the opportunity to make Him the Lord and Savior of my life.
And once I do that, God will look at me through the blood of Jesus Christ and I will be seen as perfect.
And then, I am acceptable to be in heaven in the presence of God.

Praying for you.

Dear GREGA. You had quite a few replies, may I give mine too? Jesus told us: " Be ye perfect as your Father in Heaven is.perfect" That is straight forward, if we remember that God is LOVE. Jesus also told us to 1) Love God with all our hearts, love Him with all our souls, and love Him with all our minds. 2) Love each other as we love ourselves. LOVE/AGAPE, perfect Love, no strings whatsoever. Love can do no wrong, love always gives and forgives. We have been given years to repent and exchange our selfish and wilful character, for a new loving with hearts and hands character. That is not easy, but we have Jesus to help and guide us all the way, in fact, Jesus is the Way. A perfect Heaven, a perfect God, and perfect adopted sons and daughters. I say this humbly and with love Grega. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ. P.S. At the end of our earthly life, God will know how much we truly tried to become perfect, as God is PERFECT.

Grega said:

ok..I've had a few useful replies and so would a correct middleground be the following?
You believe that through Jesus you hold that upon your physical death your sins will be wiped away whereby you enter Heaven sinless and perfect before your god, where perfect is meant as "completely without sin"...and that having reached this state you will remain this way?

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Well actually, according to Scriptures, our sins (plural) were wiped away 2000 years ago when we were included in Christ on the Cross; our sinful nature (singular) was wiped away when we died with Him on that Cross; and our new life in Him began as our Baptism concluded.

For the balance of our earthly life we work out the objective facts above until they become subjective facts in our lives.

A BROTHER/FRIEND/BOND-SLAVE OF MY LORD/GOD/SAVIOR JESUS CHRIST,
ephraim

Dear Grega. Jesus told us to be as perfect as God in Heaven is perfect. What do we have to do to enter Heaven? Jesus told us to REPENT, i.e. exchange our selfish and unloving character for a selflessly loving and caring one. 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love each other, love others, love our neighbour, AS we love ourselves, completely, with no strings attached. We have years to learn this, we have Jesus to help and guide us, and we have a Father in Heaven who forgives us our transgressions/ slips, every time we fail and sincerely ask for forgiveness. LOVE, selfless and like our Lord`s, freely given and no strings attached. Love is the Key to Heaven, the all-embracing condition to be in Heaven with our Heavenly Father and our brothers and sisters. I say this humbly and with love, Grega. Greetings from Emmy, sister in Christ.

GreenMunchkin said:

Interesting question

To get to Heaven, no. None of us will ever be anywhere near perfect - which is what makes Christ's salvation so amazing. We'll go to Heaven even though we don't deserve it, and could never, ever deserve it.

The Bible tells us there will be no sin in Heaven, so once we're there, yes, I believe we'll be perfect. Not because *we're* awesome, but because God is, and He will make us new.

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+1

We can only be what God created us to be. Therefore we are all God's perfect creation. If not than God is not perfect.

I am the perfect example of who I am and represent. I am what God created me to be.

I believe God would consider us perfect when we are "in Him". Which means we eat, drink , think, and live, in Him 100% and there is no thought outside of Him.

Grega said:

I need to ask this question before I ask my next and so:

Is it true that to be in heaven you have to be 'perfect'?, and has it always been this way? (always been this way from your god's perspective that is)

Click to expand...

Yes

Grega said:

ok..I've had a few useful replies and so would a correct middleground be the following?
You believe that through Jesus you hold that upon your physical death your sins will be wiped away whereby you enter Heaven sinless and perfect before your god, where perfect is meant as "completely without sin"...and that having reached this state you will remain this way?

Click to expand...

Yes

Yeshua's robe of righteousness covers a multitude of past guilt and allows us to be in His Presence to learn to live His Way.