How would creationist deal with alien life?

shernren · Dec 31, 2008

daveleau said:
... as science proved the prebiotic soup could not have created life 120 years ago.

Prebiotic soup? Is that, like, Campbell's with added starch?

You can tell I'm having a lot of fun on this thread.

busterdog · Dec 31, 2008

shernren said:
Prebiotic soup? Is that, like, Campbell's with added starch?

You can tell I'm having a lot of fun on this thread.

Sort of like Campbells. The problem is that the whole crystal matrix/lightning model is all wrong. Those higher temperatures associated with the young earth are not conducive to life. You need to leave the prebiotic soup in the back of the fridge for about two months. Then you get life.

Merlin · Jan 1, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
Since Genesis does not talk about little green men I have always wondered how many biblical literalist would deal with the inevitable (IMHO) discovery of alien life. Chances are pretty high that we won't find anyone anywhere near our level of intelligence but what if we did? What if we found a planet much like ours with a race at least as smart as chimps? We are talking about self aware beings who have culture, language, art and possibly even their own religion/mythology. How would creationism deal with this?

the Bible is silent on this topic
therefore it's no problem to a literalist

yeshuasavedme · Jan 2, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
Since Genesis does not talk about little green men I have always wondered how many biblical literalist would deal with the inevitable (IMHO) discovery of alien life. Chances are pretty high that we won't find anyone anywhere near our level of intelligence but what if we did? What if we found a planet much like ours with a race at least as smart as chimps? We are talking about self aware beings who have culture, language, art and possibly even their own religion/mythology.

Heaven is filled with angels of many different kinds. Some of them left their heavenly home and married daughters of Adam.
Jud 1:6 And the angels which kept not their arche [translated "first estate"], but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. Jud 1:7 Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strangeflesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire.

Gen 6:2 "ben elohym" saw the "bath Adam" that they [were] fair; and they took them wives of all which they chose.
Gen 6:4 There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the ben elohym/sons of God came in unto the daughters of Adam/Bath Adam, and they bare [children] to them, the same [became] mighty men which [were] of old, men of renown.

Enoch saw the City of God in heaven [Zion above], which City of God is the "first estate" of the Watchers who left heaven, and who took daughters of Adam as wives, who bore to them giants, on earth, pre-flood [and some others did it after the flood also];

Angels gathered their own grain and tossed it through the "opened doors" of heaven, to the Israelites below, for 40 years, six days a week. But angels did not toss out their food to the Israelites on the Sabbath -h-m-m!
Psa 78:23 Though he had commanded the clouds from above, and opened the doors of heaven,
Psa 78:24 And had rained down manna upon them to eat, and had given them of the corn of heaven. Psa 78:25 Man did eat angels' food: he sent them meat to the full.

God has lots of chariots.
Psa 68:17 The chariots of God [are] twenty thousand, [even] thousands of angels: the Lord [is] among them, [as in] Sinai, in the holy [place].
His chariots are called "whirlwinds", in English:
Isa 66:15 For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots /merkabah whirlwind/cuwphah, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire.
Psa 68:4 Sing unto God, sing praises to his name: extol him that rideth upon the heavens by his name YAH, and rejoice before him.

Jesus said that there are many dwelling places in His Father's "house";
Jhn 14:2 In my Father's house are many dwelling places: if [it were] not [so], I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

Jerusalem above is the "City of God", "Mount Zion" of the heavenlies, where the "elders" -elect, holy angels who did not fall, dwell;
Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
[and Mount Zion in heaven, the City of God, is now inhabited by the born again in Christ righteous souls whom Jesus took with Him from Sheol below, when He ascended and "led captivity captive". They dwell there along with the elect angels the Watchers/holy ones whom Enoch saw there.]
Hbr 12:22 But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
Hbr 12:23 To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
God has a created temple in the created heaven. Enoch went there first, and wrote about what he saw in His writings called 1 Enoch; and John went there last, and wrote about what he saw, in Revelation.

Fallen Adam is quarantined from the heavenly city and the dwelling places of the righteous, there, since the fall, and no way will the doors of heaven open and fallen sons of Adam get in to mess it all up. Nimrod & co tried that, , and all the world got for it was our one mother tongue confounded/mingled all up, and our families separated into different tribes/nations, scattered over the earth, with no unity and no ability to "ascend to heaven".

Enoch [Chapter 39]
1 [And it shall come to pass in those days that elect and holy children will descend from the 2 high heaven, and their seed will become one with the children of men. And in those days Enoch received books of zeal and wrath, and books of disquiet and expulsion.]
And mercy shall not be accorded to them, saith the Lord of Spirits.

3 And in those days a whirlwind carried me off from the earth,
And set me down at the end of the heavens.
4 And there I saw another vision, the dwelling-places of the holy,
And the resting-places of the righteous.
5 Here mine eyes saw their dwellings with His righteous angels,
And their resting-places with the holy.
And they petitioned and interceded and prayed for the children of men,
And righteousness flowed before them as water,
And mercy like dew upon the earth:
Thus it is amongst them for ever and ever.
6a And in that place mine eyes saw the Elect One of righteousness and of faith,
7a And I saw his dwelling-place under the wings of the Lord of Spirits.
6b And righteousness shall prevail in his days,

1 Enoch:
[Chapter 14]
1 The book of the words of righteousness, and of the reprimand of the eternal Watchers in accordance 2 with the command of the Holy Great One in that vision. I saw in my sleep what I will now say with a tongue of flesh and with the breath of my mouth: which the Great One has given to men to 3 converse therewith and understand with the heart. As He has created and given to man the power of understanding the word of wisdom, so hath He created me also and given me the power of reprimanding 4 the Watchers, the children of heaven. I wrote out your petition, and in my vision it appeared thus, that your petition will not be granted unto you throughout all the days of eternity, and that judgement 5 has been finally passed upon you: yea (your petition) will not be granted unto you. And from henceforth you shall not ascend into heaven unto all eternity, and in bonds of the earth the decree 6 has gone forth to bind you for all the days of the world. And (that) previously you shall have seen the destruction of your beloved sons and ye shall have no pleasure in them, but they shall fall before 7 you by the sword. And your petition on their behalf shall not be granted, nor yet on your own: even though you weep and pray and speak all the words contained in the writing which I have 8 written. And the vision was shown to me thus: Behold, in the vision clouds invited me and a mist summoned me, and the course of the stars and the lightnings sped and hastened me, and the winds in 9 the vision caused me to fly and lifted me upward, and bore me into heaven. And I went in till I drew nigh to a wall which is built of crystals and surrounded by tongues of fire: and it began to affright 10 me. And I went into the tongues of fire and drew nigh to a large house which was built of crystals: and the walls of the house were like a tesselated floor (made) of crystals, and its groundwork was 11 of crystal. Its ceiling was like the path of the stars and the lightnings, and between them were 12 fiery cherubim, and their heaven was (clear as) water. A flaming fire surrounded the walls, and its 13 portals blazed with fire. And I entered into that house, and it was hot as fire and cold as ice: there 14 were no delights of life therein: fear covered me, and trembling got hold upon me. And as I quaked 15 and trembled, I fell upon my face. And I beheld a vision, And lo! there was a second house, greater 16 than the former, and the entire portal stood open before me, and it was built of flames of fire. And in every respect it so excelled in splendour and magnificence and extent that I cannot describe to 17 you its splendour and its extent. And its floor was of fire, and above it were lightnings and the path 18 of the stars, and its ceiling also was flaming fire. And I looked and saw therein a lofty throne: its appearance was as crystal, and the wheels thereof as the shining sun, and there was the vision of 19 cherubim. And from underneath the throne came streams of flaming fire so that I could not look 20 thereon. And the Great Glory sat thereon, and His raiment shone more brightly than the sun and 21 was whiter than any snow. None of the angels could enter and could behold His face by reason 22 of the magnificence and glory and no flesh could behold Him. The flaming fire was round about Him, and a great fire stood before Him, and none around could draw nigh Him: ten thousand times 23 ten thousand (stood) before Him, yet He needed no counselor. And the most holy ones who were 24 nigh to Him did not leave by night nor depart from Him. And until then I had been prostrate on my face, trembling: and the Lord called me with His own mouth, and said to me: ' Come hither, 25 Enoch, and hear my word.' And one of the holy ones came to me and waked me, and He made me rise up and approach the door: and I bowed my face downwards.
[Chapter 15]
1 And He answered and said to me, and I heard His voice: 'Fear not, Enoch, thou righteous 2 man and scribe of righteousness: approach hither and hear my voice. And go, say to the Watchers of heaven, who have sent thee to intercede for them: "You should intercede" for men, and not men 3 for you: Wherefore have ye left the high, holy, and eternal heaven, and lain with women, and defiled yourselves with the daughters of men and taken to yourselves wives, and done like the children 4 of earth, and begotten giants (as your) sons?

And though ye were holy, spiritual, living the eternal life, you have defiled yourselves with the blood of women, and have begotten (children) with the blood of flesh, and, as the children of men, have lusted after flesh and blood as those also do who die 5 and perish.
Therefore have I given them wives also that they might impregnate them, and beget 6 children by them, that thus nothing might be wanting to them on earth.
But you were formerly 7 spiritual, living the eternal life, and immortal for all generations of the world. And therefore I have not appointed wives for you; for as for the spiritual ones of the heaven, in heaven is their dwelling.

8 And now, the giants, who are produced from the spirits and flesh, shall be called evil spirits upon 9 the earth, and on the earth shall be their dwelling. Evil spirits have proceeded from their bodies; because they are born from men and from the holy Watchers is their beginning and primal origin; 10 they shall be evil spirits on earth, and evil spirits shall they be called. [As for the spirits of heaven, in heaven shall be their dwelling, but as for the spirits of the earth which were born upon the earth, on the earth shall be their dwelling.] And the spirits of the giants afflict, oppress, destroy, attack, do battle, and work destruction on the earth, and cause trouble: they take no food, but nevertheless 12 hunger and thirst, and cause offences. And these spirits shall rise up against the children of men and against the women, because they have proceeded from them.
[Chapter 16]
1 From the days of the slaughter and destruction and death of the giants, from the souls of whose flesh the spirits, having gone forth, shall destroy without incurring judgement -thus shall they destroy until the day of the consummation, the great judgement in which the age shall be 2 consummated, over the Watchers and the godless, yea, shall be wholly consummated." And now as to the watchers who have sent thee to intercede for them, who had been aforetime in heaven, (say 3 to them): "You have been in heaven, but all the mysteries had not yet been revealed to you, and you knew worthless ones, and these in the hardness of your hearts you have made known to the women, and through these mysteries women and men work much evil on earth." 4 Say to them therefore: " You have no peace."'

1 Enoch:
[Chapter 70]
1 And it came to pass after this that his name during his lifetime was raised aloft to that Son of 2 Man and to the Lord of Spirits from amongst those who dwell on the earth. And he was raised aloft 3 on the chariots of the spirit and his name vanished among them. And from that day I was no longer numbered amongst them: and he set me between the two winds, between the North and the 4 West, where the angels took the cords to measure for me the place for the elect and righteous. And there I saw the first fathers and the righteous who from the beginning dwell in that place.
[Chapter 71]
1 And it came to pass after this that my spirit was translated
And it ascended into the heavens:
And I saw the holy sons of God....

LewisWildermuth · Jan 2, 2009

Merlin said:
the Bible is silent on this topic
therefore it's no problem to a literalist

The Bible is silent on the age of the Earth, but that never stopped the YECs from having an opinion on the subject.

The Bible is silent on the exact method of creation, but that never stopped people from questioning my belief because I accept evolution as a valid scientific theory.

busterdog · Jan 2, 2009

LewisWildermuth said:
The Bible is silent on the age of the Earth, but that never stopped the YECs from having an opinion on the subject.

The Bible is silent on the exact method of creation, but that never stopped people from questioning my belief because I accept evolution as a valid scientific theory.

I bet you could write a reasonable YEC response yourself. Why not try it? It might help you in a discussion.

LewisWildermuth · Jan 2, 2009

busterdog said:
I bet you could write a reasonable YEC response yourself. Why not try it? It might help you in a discussion.

Over a decade ago when I was a YEC the consensus opinion would have been that there is no life other than what is on Earth or what originally came from Earth. Any alien life that came to visit was not alien but demonic in nature.

But that was a over a decade ago, I have no idea what the current thought are.

Merlin · Jan 2, 2009

LewisWildermuth said:
The Bible is silent on the age of the Earth, but that never stopped the YECs from having an opinion on the subject.

yes
many opinions out there.
what's yours?

The Bible is silent on the exact method of creation, but that never stopped people from questioning my belief because I accept evolution as a valid scientific theory.

i question evolution too.
what makes your beliefs so sacred that they cannot be questioned?
most science encourages questions.

LewisWildermuth · Jan 3, 2009

Merlin said:
yes
many opinions out there.
what's yours?

i question evolution too.
what makes your beliefs so sacred that they cannot be questioned?
most science encourages questions.

The evidence of age that I have personally seen would indicate that the Earth is atleast millions of years old, and I have been given no good reason to believe that the radiometric tests are wrong, so I would have to say about 4.5 billion years, give or take.

I think you have misunderstood the last part of my response. Of course evolution is up for question, as I have said, I accept it as a valid scientific theory and as such it is always to be questioned and tested. The belief I was talking about is my Christianity. I have been accused of not being a Christian both on this board and in real life too many times to count. I have had my posting rights on the Christian Only sections of this board pulled because someone thought that my acceptance of evolution meant I was not a Christian. I have had to submit to questioning by Erwin and the high mods here just to get those privileges back because of such baseless accusations.

Even now a thread goes on about how TEs, ECs, whatever you wish to call those that do not see reason to reject science, can even be Christians in this sub-forum. That is the questioning that I am tired of.

sk8Joyful · Jan 3, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
Since Genesis does not talk about little green men I have always wondered how many biblical literalist would deal with the inevitable (IMHO) discovery of alien life.

Just because the Bible may be silent on a subject, why would that present any problems to any intelligent Christian?

Computers, microwave -technology, & all the rest of (formerly-alien) scientific awarenesses are also not mentioned in the Bible, yet us Christians are used to such advantages in our lives.

So the same with "aliens"; some once amongst us; until
GOD got rid of such of His creations, from amongst us on earth.

daveleau · Jan 3, 2009

shernren said:
Prebiotic soup? Is that, like, Campbell's with added starch?

You can tell I'm having a lot of fun on this thread.

It is quite a ridiculous concept, don't you think? I mean scientists actually believe this stuff and teachers actually teach it.

visionary · Jan 12, 2009

Why is it so hard to imagine that out in space are multitudes of Gods creations which habit other galaxies, other solar systems? We sit and watch science fiction regarding space battles in far away planetary places and we can not see that it could well be true. No so much the wars any more.

For God said the war was over in Heaven. There will come a time when we will get to see all of heaven and all that God created in the entire universe and ....

Ephesians 3:15 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named

So with that for variety, I think we will have plenty to admire and praise God for. God said ....

Revelation 5:3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.

Since we know that He wasnt talking about Yeshua who was able to open the book, there is indication that there are other men in heaven. They are also called every creature, which gives you the understanding that they are not all looking as we do.

Revelation 5:13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

It almost sounds like the entire universe that God has created has been populated with many multitudes of creatures, men of heaven, as he says from one end of heaven to the other. The entire universe has been well informed of our creation and the controversy with regard to the acusations of Satan. God asked His other creations if they have every seen the like, where God would lay down His life for His creations. Had they even heard such a thing?

Deuteronomy 4:32 For ask now of the days that are past, which were before thee, since the day that God created man upon the earth, and ask from the one side of heaven unto the other, whether there hath been any such thing as this great thing is, or hath been heard like it?

Matthew 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Job 1:6 Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them.

By all these verses, it is to see that we are not alone in the universe, and that God has created beings that are in his universe and not just on this planet. When all things are new, we will be able to go visit these places that they live and meet with these beings that God has created. I also think that we are the only planet that sinned.

Luke 15:7 I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

Well, we know there is no one other than Yeshua that had needed no repentance on this earth so that rules out this planet that Yeshua was talking about. On the other planets that are inhabited, they may have never sinned and are just persons and needed no repentance, thereby be the ones that are fulfilling Gods words. It wasnt that they were not being accused of lots of things by Satan. They were just righteously following Gods Law and never deviated from it. Satan was boldly thrown out of heaven and those that needed no repentance were no longer being pestered, accused before God any more. And they that live in heaven rejoiced.

Rev 12:10 for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night 12 Therefore, rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them, Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath,because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

The war in heaven is won by God and Satan lost. The issue was over, and the devil and His angels are thrown out. We know that when Job was alive, that Satan was still allowed in heavens courts. Was it the death of Yeshua on the cross that resolved it in Heaven to have nothing more to do with HaSatan? lace was found in heaven for HaSatan. This earth is HaSatans last strong hold. We are the final battle ground in this war. God will win this war here also. Is it resolved in your own heart, and are you wanting HaSatan cast out of you forever too?

Hebrews 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him;

mindlight · Jan 22, 2009

I must have missed this thread. Sounds like people had a lot of fun here over the New Year.

Noone has ever seen little green men let alone little green microbes off world so I guess we are getting a little ahead of ourselves in Star Trek, Star Gate, XFiles and the like.

But the Bible does speak of beings in a more advanced state of awareness of God and each other. Makes me worry that the earth is not just some kind of giant big brother reality show being watched by little green men with angels wings. Are we the laughing stock of the universe or do the aliens watch in genuine interest at the choices we might make.

Personally I think the discussion is too speculative to be anything more than a fun game with words. The solar system which we have seen is devoid of life except for us. We are the consciousness of otherwise dead and barren spaces. We are the action and it is our lives that God is working out his purpose for this universe.

However I do not think that just cause there does not seem to be any ETs on our radar screens we should forget about space travel. I for one would love to watch a sunset over Martian landscapes, see earthrise from a moon base. Swim butterfly in the 1 6th gravity of the moon and see the rings of Saturn up close and personal.

The fact that life does in fact seem to be so rare and unique is proof against ubiogenesis and macro_evolution in my view.

nephilimiyr · Jan 26, 2009

Matthewj1985 said:
Since Genesis does not talk about little green men I have always wondered how many biblical literalist would deal with the inevitable (IMHO) discovery of alien life. Chances are pretty high that we won't find anyone anywhere near our level of intelligence but what if we did? What if we found a planet much like ours with a race at least as smart as chimps? We are talking about self aware beings who have culture, language, art and possibly even their own religion/mythology. How would creationism deal with this?

Maybe not, but Genesis 6 talks about the nephilim, so hopefully when the aliens reveal themselves, all of you will see them for who they are. Not an inteligent species that evolved on another planet but inter-demensional celestial beings. Some of you might know of them as being the sons of God, or otherwise, angels. And not of the God obeying kind.

How would creationist deal with alien life?

you are not reading this.

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