Evolution, And why i dont belive in it.

Originally posted by Freak4god0122
-Evolution has never been observed.
-Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
-There are no transitional fossils.
-The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance.
-Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved.
-abotped from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

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violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics?

Random Chance?

yep it's on a theory.

sorry buddy there is a lot of fossils, and evidence for evolution. I believe cause of the evidence.

Originally posted by Freak4god0122
show me!

If there was follsils that supports evolution, we would hear about it ALOT more, and what evidence?

!

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If you havn't heard about it you havn't been listening. And if you want evidence look through the threads in the forum there is a lot. I don't search unless I have to. Cause everything has already been talked about. Just do some searching on the forum.

But as you are probably a YECist you probably will not believe the evidence.

There are no fossils that justifiably support the theory of evolution!

It's the same as finding an arrow head from back in the days when indians made them. There are many stones that resemble one but are not truely arrowheads!

Archeologists find fossils and bones and construct them to make odd animals/humans/whatevers to support their evolutional belief.

lol there isn't? Darn I always thought there was. No wait a minute there is.

Originally posted by Freak4god0122
-Evolution has never been observed.
-Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
-There are no transitional fossils.
-The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance.
-Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved.
-abotped from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

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ROFL

Obviously you stopped reading before you got to the part that said:

Explanations of why these statements are wrong are given below. They are brief and therefore somewhat simplified; consult the references at the end for more thorough explanations.

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from the above link about creationist misconceptions

"There are no transitional fossils."

A transitional fossil is one that looks like it's from an organism intermediate between two lineages, meaning it has some characteristics of lineage A, some characteristics of lineage B, and probably some characteristics part way between the two. Transitional fossils can occur between groups of any taxonomic level, such as between species, between orders, etc. Ideally, the transitional fossil should be found stratigraphically between the first occurrence of the ancestral lineage and the first occurrence of the descendent lineage, but evolution also predicts the occurrence of some fossils with transitional morphology that occur after both lineages. There's nothing in the theory of evolution which says an intermediate form (or any organism, for that matter) can have only one line of descendents, or that the intermediate form itself has to go extinct when a line of descendents evolves.

To say there are no transitional fossils is simply false. Paleontology has progressed a bit since Origin of Species was published, uncovering thousands of transitional fossils, by both the temporally restrictive and the less restrictive definitions. The fossil record is still spotty and always will be; erosion and the rarity of conditions favorable to fossilization make that inevitable. Also, transitions may occur in a small population, in a small area, and/or in a relatively short amount of time; when any of these conditions hold, the chances of finding the transitional fossils goes down. Still, there are still many instances where excellent sequences of transitional fossils exist. Some notable examples are the transitions from reptile to mammal, from land animal to early whale, and from early ape to human. For many more examples, see the transitional fossils FAQ in the talk.origins archive, and see http://www.geo.ucalgary.ca/~macrae/talk_origins.html for sample images for some invertebrate groups.

The misconception about the lack of transitional fossils is perpetuated in part by a common way of thinking about categories. When people think about a category like "dog" or "ant," they often subconsciously believe that there is a well-defined boundary around the category, or that there is some eternal ideal form (for philosophers, the Platonic idea) which defines the category. This kind of thinking leads people to declare that Archaeopteryx is "100% bird," when it is clearly a mix of bird and reptile features (with more reptile than bird features, in fact). In truth, categories are man-made and artificial. Nature is not constrained to follow them, and it doesn't.

Some Creationists claim that the hypothesis of punctuated equilibrium was proposed (by Eldredge and Gould) to explain gaps in the fossil record. Actually, it was proposed to explain the relative rarity of transitional forms, not their total absence, and to explain why speciation appears to happen relatively quickly in some cases, gradually in others, and not at all during some periods for some species. In no way does it deny that transitional sequences exist. In fact, both Gould and Eldredge are outspoken opponents of Creationism.


"But paleontologists have discovered several superb examples of intermediary forms and sequences, more than enough to convince any fair-minded skeptic about the reality of life's physical genealogy." - Stephen Jay Gould, Natural History, May 1994

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from:

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

I see alot here just holding to quotes and documentation from other men to base their evolutional beliefs, but that is not evidence, it's passing on what others have said.

Have any of you truely researched the bible?

Originally posted by Freak4god0122
-Evolution has never been observed.

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Populations of bacteria repeatedly exposed to anti-biotics will evolve to be immune. The bacteria which are not immune are killed off leaving only those that are immune to reproduce.

-Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

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The 2nd Law of Thermodynamics only applies to systems as a whole. Order in one part of a system can be increased by a decrease in order in another part of the system. Otherwise, humans would be impossible. They transform water, carbohydrates, proteins, lipids, vitamins, and minerals into highly complex creatures (themselves).

-There are no transitional fossils.
-The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance.

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Evolution does not deal with the origin of life. That is a different area of research within biology.

-Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved.

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This argument is just silly. Saying that something is a theory does nothing to address whether or not the theory is correct.

-abotped from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

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Originally posted by Warrior FC
I see alot here just holding to quotes and documentation from other men to base their evolutional beliefs, but that is not evidence, it's passing on what others have said.

Have any of you truely researched the bible?

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The question is have you? For biblical literalists who claim the bible is the perfect, inerrant word of God. Consider that perfection and inerrant (without error) are unequivocal...even one mistake negates the claim. There is no such thing as somewhat in error or a little bit perfect. Its either inerrant or wrong, perfect or not. This is just a bit from the Science and History Fallacies /Sceptics Annotated Bible:
Find this at: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/

INACCURACIES IN TAXONOMY (from Leviticus)

• 1. The bible says that hares and coneys are unclean because they "chew the cud" but do not part the hoof. But hares and coneys are not ruminants and they do not "chew the cud." 11:5-6
• 2. Bats are birds to the biblical God. 11:13, 19
• 3.Be sure to watch out for those "other flying creeping things which have four feet." (I wish God wouldn't get so technical!) I guess he must mean four-legged insects or birds. You'd think that since God made the insects, who have 6 LEGS and so many of them (over 1 million species), that he would know how many legs they have! Birds have 2 LEGS . 11:23

FLAT EARTH AND EARTH AS THE CENTER OF THE UNIVERSE FALLACIES

• 1. The earth is stable and does not move. 1 Sam.2:8, 1 Chr.16:30; Job 9:6, 38:4-6; Ps.96:10, 104:5, Is.13:10, Micah.6:2 If so, then it must not spin on its axis or travel about the sun.
• 2. Heaven is set upon pillars that tremble when God gets mad. Job 26:11
• 3. The sun moves around the earth. Psalms 19:4-5, Is.13:10
• 4. God will gather up the people of Judea "from the four corners of the earth." Is.11:12
  In the Bible's view, the earth is flat with four corners.
• 5. Daniel's tree is tall enough to see "to the end of the earth." Dan.4:10-11Only on a flat earth would this be possible.
• 6.T he stone became "a great mountain" that "filled the whole earth." This could only be possible on a flat, disc-shaped earth. Dan.2:35
• 7. The earth is set upon strong foundations and therefore does not move. Micah 6:2
• 8. The devil kidnaps Jesus and takes him up to the top of the temple, and then to the top of "an exceeding high mountain," high enough to see "all the kingdoms of the world." Matt.4:5-8 I guess the earth was flat in those days.
• 9. In the book of Revelation (7:1), John "saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth." Well, I guess that settles it: the earth is flat and square-shaped, or at least quadrilateral in shape.
• 10. The devil takes Jesus to the top of a mountain and shows him "all the kingdoms of the world." I guess the world was flat in those days. Lk.4:5

WRONG VALUE FOR PI: (THIS ONE’S A REALLY BIG MATHEMATICAL MISTAKE!)

• 1. Since the molten sea in 2 Chr.4:2 and 1 Kg.7:23 was round with a diameter of ten cubits and a circumference of thirty cubits, we know that the biblical value (God's value) of Pi is exactly 3. But, of course, its actual value is approximately 3.14159.

OTHER ASTRONOMICAL, BOTANICAL SCIENTIFIC ERROR

• 1. According to the Isaiah, the moon produces its own light and the earth does not move. Isaiah.13:10, ]13:13
• 2. To Ezekiel, the sun is just a little light that can be covered with a cloud, and the moon produces its own light. Ezek.32:7
• 3.Jesus is incorrect when he says that the mustard seed is the smallest seed. And since there are no trees in the mustard family, mustard seeds do not grow into"the greatest of all trees." Mt.13:31-32, Mk.4:31-32. You would think that the alleged Son of God would KNOW this!
• 4. "The moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven." Apparently, Jesus believed that the moon produces its own light, and that the stars are lights held in place by a firmament only a few miles above our heads. Mt.24:29
• 5. "And there fell a great star from heaven, burning as it were a lamp, and it fell upon the third part of the rivers, and upon the fountains of waters." Rev.8:10. In the bible, stars are just lights that can fall to the ground from the sky. (Rev.1:16, 6:13, 12:4)

The unscientific aspect of biblical teachings is also shown in the fact that many mythological creatures are spoken of as if they were, in fact, real. The manner in which they are described and the context within which this occurs show biblical writers felt they actually existed. Some of the prominent examples are:

• 1. cockatrices (Jer. 8:17, Isa. 11:8 59:5),
• 2. unicorns (Deut. 33:17, Psalms 22:21. 29:6, Job 39:9-10),
• 3. satyrs (Isa. 34:14, 13:21)
• 4. fiery serpents (Num. 21:6),
• 5. flying serpents (Isa. 14:29, 30:6).

Hey, Warrior, do you believe in these, the Bible says so!!!?

Originally posted by gladiatrix
WRONG VALUE FOR PI: (THIS ONE’S A REALLY BIG MATHEMATICAL MISTAKE!)

• 1. Since the molten sea in 2 Chr.4:2 and 1 Kg.7:23 was round with a diameter of ten cubits and a circumference of thirty cubits, we know that the biblical value (God's value) of Pi is exactly 3. But, of course, its actual value is approximately 3.14159.

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Look up the geometric definition of "eccentricity."

Gladiatrix,
The bible is foolishness to a non-spiritual person! You must have the Spirit of God (Holy Spirit) to understand the scriptures. You are trying to understand and discredit the scriptures with human logic and reasoning when you need the Spirit of God to understand the scriptures!

The bible was also foolishness to me before I was enlightened by the Holy Spirit to give me understanding! That is why we can have the bible a whole life time and still not understand it unless God reveals the truths in it to us by His Holy Spirit.

1Cor. 2:14
BUT THE NATURAL, NONSPIRITUAL MAN DOES NOT ACCEPT OR WELCOME OR ADMIT INTO HIS HEART THE GIFTS AND TEACHINGS AND REVELATIONS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD, FOR THEY ARE FOLLY (MEANINGLESS NONSENSE) TO HIM; AND HE IS INCAPABLE OF KNOWING THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED AND APPRECIATED.

1 Cor 2; 13
AND WE ARE SETTING THESE TRUTHS FORTH IN WORDS NOT TAUGHT BY HUMAN WISDOM BUT TAUGHT BY THE HOLY SPIRIT, COMBINING AND INTERPRETING SPIRITUAL TRUTHS WITH SPIRITUAL LANGUAGE TO THOSE WHO POSSESS THE HOLY SPIRIT.

Originally posted by Freak4god0122
-Evolution has never been observed.
-Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
-There are no transitional fossils.
-The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance.
-Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved.
-abotped from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

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This is either very sloppy research on your part or outright deception.  You quoted a very brief segment of an article that goes on to describe in detail why these arguments are completely erroneous. 

So my question is why post these arguments in a manner that fails to account for the detailed explanations of why they are erroneous.  If you feel the author's explanations are inadequate, why don't you tell us why?

-brett

Originally posted by Warrior FC
I see alot here just holding to quotes and documentation from other men to base their evolutional beliefs, but that is not evidence, it's passing on what others have said.

Have any of you truely researched the bible?

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So you feel that we must expend the time, money and effort to redo all of the research done in support of evolutionary theory over the last 150 years in order to satisfy your objections?  Of course we reference evidence provided by other men and women.  If your standard for evidence in support of scientific theories excludes work done by anyone other than the person you're speaking to then trying to reason with you is hopeless. 

As to your question, yes most of us here have researched the Bible rather thoroughly.  I have come to the conclusion that the Bible provides little if any valuable information regarding biological evolution and have since moved on to reasearching the work of scientists who have written volume upon volume on the subject and seem to be a much better source of information on the evidence for evolutionary theory.  I would guess that if you had put in half of the time studying legitimate science that those who disagree with you have spent reading the Bible, we wouldn't need to have this discussion.

-brett

Originally posted by Freak4god0122
if you've never seen it, know it breaks the 2nd law of thermodynamics, you know that there has never been any fossils about evolution, and that it hasnt been proved, Why in the world you believe it?

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Why do I have the nagging suspicion that you couldn't even begin to explain why your arguments are wrong or right here?  Let's narrow the focus a bit.  

What does the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics say?  How, in at least moderate detail, does biological evolution violate the 2nd Law?  If biological evolution did violate the 2nd Law, then what other common, observed processes would also violate it?

-brett 

Originally posted by Freak4god0122
-Evolution has never been observed.
-Evolution violates the 2nd law of thermodynamics.
-There are no transitional fossils.
-The theory of evolution says that life originated, and evolution proceeds, by random chance.
-Evolution is only a theory; it hasn't been proved.
-abotped from http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-misconceptions.html

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LOL! Wait a minute, you got your arguments against the theory of evolution from the exact website that refutes every single one of the arguments you listed?

Furthermore, the fact that you brought up the second law of thermodynamics is also amusing considering you already claimed to put so much faith into Answers in Genesis. After all, Answers in Genesis lists the argument from the second law of thermodynamics as a fallacious argument that creationists should NOT use.

Do you even know what the second law of thermodynamics is or how thermodynamics can be trumped by reaction kinetics?

Originally posted by euphoric
So you feel that we must expend the time, money and effort to redo all of the research done in support of evolutionary theory over the last 150 years in order to satisfy your objections?  Of course we reference evidence provided by other men and women.  If your standard for evidence in support of scientific theories excludes work done by anyone other than the person you're speaking to then trying to reason with you is hopeless. 

As to your question, yes most of us here have researched the Bible rather thoroughly.  I have come to the conclusion that the Bible provides little if any valuable information regarding biological evolution and have since moved on to reasearching the work of scientists who have written volume upon volume on the subject and seem to be a much better source of information on the evidence for evolutionary theory.  I would guess that if you had put in half of the time studying legitimate science that those who disagree with you have spent reading the Bible, we wouldn't need to have this discussion.

-brett

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All that time, money, and effort that has been put into researching evolution has been a waste! It provides no future benefit for anyone but to state a theory as to why we exist and where we suposedly came from.. That's it!

Most of you say you have researched the bible but you must remember that you can only discern the meaning of the bible by the Spirit! God is SPIRIT and those who want understanding of the bible must first come to God to get it!

1Cor. 2:14
BUT THE NATURAL, NONSPIRITUAL MAN DOES NOT ACCEPT OR WELCOME OR ADMIT INTO HIS HEART THE GIFTS AND TEACHINGS AND REVELATIONS OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD, FOR THEY ARE FOLLY (MEANINGLESS NONSENSE) TO HIM; AND HE IS INCAPABLE OF KNOWING THEM BECAUSE THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED AND APPRECIATED.