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DaisyDay · Dec 17, 2008

KarateCowboy said:
OK. Whatever. You knew what I was saying.

Yeah, and you were wrong.

OK. And? That doesn't change anything relevant to the message of my post. What's your point?

It directly contradicts what you claim, ie that providing Spanish translations is adapting to foreigners. It actually adapts to Spanish speaking American citizens.

My point -> English is not the only native language in the US.

JustOneWay · Dec 17, 2008

HollandScotts said:
Aw, you know what, I'm blind. I thought I had posted a link in the other post. I apologize.

So, here it is.

http://www.jbs.org/index.php/jbs-news-feed/4135

That is appalling. How can they let this type of felony go unpunished?

Hector Medina · Dec 17, 2008

Man that sounds like a joke!

There is evidence to show that bilingual education complicates things for our kids as well as worsens educational performence.

Not only is Pro-English legislation necessary, it should be a norm in government!

-Hector

HollandScotts said:
English should be the official language for government business. Here in Texas, specifically, Dallas, we have the ISDs hiring bilingual teachers, and giving them preference over the non-bilingual teachers. Wouldn't be such a big deal if they weren't bringing these teacher up from Mexico illegally and hiring them without background checks, just so they can teach the children of all the illegals over here is Spanish, instead of forcing them to learn English. Maybe that has something to do with why our public education system is broken.

And then, when the Dallas ISD looses 60 million and has to fire over a thousand people, they don't fire the illegals.

Hector Medina · Dec 17, 2008

Besides that one lady, is another who is a housekeeper, a friends mother, several male green card residents.

That first generation, hundreds and thousands of people, is what the arguament is all about.

-HM

revanneosl said:
What you are illustrating is the difference between anecdotal evidence (your one lady, the "several people" you know) and statistical evidence, which gathers large numbers of incidents from a wide range of people.

It is absolutely true that, across America, the present generation of immigrants is aquiring the English language slightly faster than previous generations of immigrants. It is also entirely possible that in Texas they are doing so at a marginally slower rate, due to community cohesiveness, the large spanish-speaking population, and the abysmal state of public education in Texas.

However - maybe not. Remember, the first thing I said was "All immigrant groups in the US have become fluent in English within two generations." Remember the two generations. The people you spoke of "came from Mexico like 30 years ago". That's one generation. Do their kids speak English? I'll bet you all the money in my pockets against all the money in your pockets that they do.

My great-grandfather never became fluent in English. His kids did. Their kids didn't know how to speak Dutch.

The pill of chill, it is recommended.

HollandScotts · Dec 17, 2008

That is appalling. How can they let this type of felony go unpunished?

Vast corruption at the local, state and federal governments. These are the fruits of illegal immigration.

JustOneWay · Dec 17, 2008

HollandScotts said:
Vast corruption at the local, state and federal governments. These are the fruits of illegal immigration.

We (Arizona) have passed some tough laws regarding hiring illegals. The laws fine and/or close down business' knowingly hiring illegals. It is a first step, although there is still a long way to go. I would like to see some of those people in Dallas go to prison if convicted.

HollandScotts · Dec 17, 2008

We (Arizona) have passed some tough laws regarding hiring illegals. The laws fine and/or close down business' knowingly hiring illegals. It is a first step, although there is still a long way to go. I would like to see some of those people in Dallas go to prison if convicted.

Convicted? We'll be lucky if they get fired. Really. The school council board just voted amongst themselves to delay their elections a year. They just gave themselves an extra year, all by themselves. The superintendent, everyone wants him fired just for overseeing the loss of 60 million, and now this comes out, and he won't step down, and the council won't fire him.

And we have an estimated 50% of kids who don't even graduate.

As a rule, I love Texas, but we have the same problems as Chicago, corrupt as can be, and the people don't seem to care and the ones that do are powerless.

KarateCowboy · Dec 17, 2008

It directly contradicts what you claim, ie that providing Spanish translations is adapting to foreigners. It actually adapts to Spanish speaking American citizens.

This is not true because they speak English too. So there is no need for any adapting. So then who are we adapting to? Foreigners.

My point -> English is not the only native language in the US.

Well for all practical purposes it is.

aisy_Day said:
Yeah, and you were wrong.

That is untrue because tearing down the wall was not a 28 year process. And either way it's a non sequitur because that's clearly not the point. The point is that walls are easily torn down and much less powerful than language barriers. Now please if you have something of significance in response to the message of my post please produce it.

Braunwyn · Dec 17, 2008

aisy_Day said:
Correcting your post is not "spamming". You should look up the word.

You claimed that it took hours for the Berlin Wall to come down. That is incorrect. It took 28 years. In no possible sense did it take mere hours, contrary to your claim.

Well, you posted (emphasis added):

By providing all these services in Spanish we are well intended, but badly executed in the sense that we are adapting to foreigners when they should be adapting to the majority, and thus we are enforcing and encouraging those linguistic enclaves.

I wanted to point out that Puerto Ricans' first language is Spanish and they are not foreigners.

What was the point of yours? At least I added facts to the discussion.

Great post, aisy Day.

KarateCowboy · Dec 17, 2008

Braunwyn said:
Great post, aisy Day.

But it's not a great post because it misses the mark. Americans from Puerto Rico speak English. I spoke with one this morning who works at the Subway across from my office. So there is no need for the other 305 million of us to express everything dually in English and Spanish. So there is no adapting for them. The fact that less than one percent of American citizens speak both English and Spanish but start learning Spanish first (even though I am told that is slowly changing) is totally irrelevant. More importantly, her post utterly ignores the message of my post and she continues to ignore the message of my post. It is a Red Herring and thus an argumentive failure.

Language barriers are more powerful than Berlin Walls and walls in Israel because they keep us apart even when we are physically near. Mitigating the process of linguistic assimilation in America is divisive and mean spirited. People who do that want to tear us apart and cause hatred and enmity.

Markus6 · Dec 17, 2008

I was just in Dubai were the primary language is Arabic but all signs are in both Arabic and English. It really annoyed me that they were catering to foreigners.

HollandScotts · Dec 17, 2008

I was just in Dubai were the primary language is Arabic but all signs are in both Arabic and English. It really annoyed me that they were catering to foreigners.

English is a world language.

Markus6 · Dec 17, 2008

HollandScotts said:
English is a world language.

As is Spanish

KarateCowboy · Dec 17, 2008

Markus6 said:
I was just in Dubai were the primary language is Arabic but all signs are in both Arabic and English. It really annoyed me that they were catering to foreigners.

Yeah it's weird. English is the lingua franca right now. It is something that I consider a blessing. However when I am in other countries I try to speak their language. In Canada I am very successful at it.

HollandScotts · Dec 17, 2008

As is Spanish

Yes, but there aren't any superpowers who speak spanish.

Billnew · Dec 17, 2008

I don't see a need to make english the official language.

How about goverment stop producing forms in other languages.
If you can't fill out the forms get help, or come back when you read well enough.

Make schools learn one term in spanish,
"Carde Verde, por favor."

I have no problem with Mexican radio, it is capitalism. The people that listen the most, get the stations. Don't like it, then nationalize radio?

I also knew many people in school whos parents never learned English, and many at the local Mexican resturante don't habla English.

When in Germany, I learned some German. In Greece, I learned some Greek. Had I ever stayed in Montreal, I might have learned some french.
If you want to live some place, learn da lingo.

Our immigration test should be in English. By the time they take it, they should know how to speak.(whats it take to jump through all the hurdles? 3-6yrs?)

Billnew · Dec 17, 2008

HollandScotts said:
Yes, but there aren't any superpowers who speak spanish.

In Spain they speak Spainish.
In Mexico, they Speak Mexican, many differences between the 2.
English, Australian, and America, are similar, except for slang terms.

You can understand the language, but they sound funny. Mexican and Spainish are the same. But I think Italian and Spainish are similar on some words.

HollandScotts · Dec 17, 2008

English, Australian, and America, are similar, except for slang terms.

As well as New Zealand and Canada

WalksWithChrist · Dec 18, 2008

HollandScotts said:
Yes, but there aren't any superpowers who speak spanish.

Yes, but...Equatorial Guinea speaks Spanish!!!

Billnew said:
In Spain they speak Spainish.
In Mexico, they Speak Mexican, many differences between the 2.
English, Australian, and America, are similar, except for slang terms.

You can understand the language, but they sound funny. Mexican and Spainish are the same. But I think Italian and Spainish are similar on some words.

Methinks someone has seen Clueless one time too many...

Markus6 · Dec 18, 2008

HollandScotts said:
Yes, but there aren't any superpowers who speak spanish.

Could you be any more stereotypically American? It's all about power is it? Give Mexico nuclear weapons and have them invade a country in the middle east and then would you respect their language?

Billnew said:
In Spain they speak Spainish.
In Mexico, they Speak Mexican, many differences between the 2.
English, Australian, and America, are similar, except for slang terms.

You can understand the language, but they sound funny. Mexican and Spainish are the same. But I think Italian and Spainish are similar on some words.

In Mexico they speak Spanish. You've just made up a language and as much as I'd love to follow your example and declare your language "American" considering you've butchered it so much and stop this farce of me having to choose "British English" (tautology somewhat?) instead of "English" to get the right spellings on my computer it's not going to happen.

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