Why is weed a sin

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Magic? hmmm..no one said magic. nonetheless, there is a connection. Sorry you have a hard time understanding that.

Sorry you have such an extremely thin basis for saying that it does...

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
That doesn't cover taking drugs, such as cannabis.

It does cover drinking wine, according to Paul. So why not cannabis? Or tobacco for that matter? Or fat or coffee?

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
We are being called to be separate unto righteousness.

Holiness doesn't come about by eating or not eating certain things. You won't get an inch holier by breathing air, and you won't get an inch unholier by breathing smoke, or asbestos, or by drinking distilled water or chugging down church coffee. Eating salad won't make you more acceptable to God, and shooting heroin won't make you less acceptable to him.

Holiness is something God gives and does, it's not something you achieve. You either are or you aren't. God doesn't need a man's help in sanctifying anything. His standards are a bit too high for us to reach by doing or eating this or that.

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Cassidy said:
Where you an addict Holo? Wow! Can I asked how you became delivered from it?

Good question, and a long story. I'll try to make it short.

I used to struggle tremendously with anxiety, depression, despair. I used to believe I was eternally lost. Drugs of various kinds were my only escape. It's not like I could talk to any christians about my problems, because they would only condemn me, especially for using drugs. Or at best, they would give me the old "just pray" or some other powerless formula. So I was basically in a downward spiral, having tried to quit many times, but always succumbing to what I thought was my true identity - an addict.

Until I finally just gave up. Then, to my amazement, I discovered that I didn't really need drugs anymore. I continued to get high, mostly out of habit, but it didn't give me much anymore. So after a while I just stopped. It was because when I gave up, I had a strong experience of being accepted by God. Unconditionally. WITH my troubles, WITH my addiction. Quite unlike how 90% of christians would've treated me. If Floatingaxe, for example, was God, I would've been chanceless (no offense, Floatingaxe, I'm just using you for an example here, you're no worse than most of us). They would've demanded I quit this and stopped that before I would be worthy of God and salvation. And they would especially demand I didn't continue getting high after being saved, that would surely lose my salvation... except that it didn't. Unlike people, God didn't nag me about drug (ab)use being "sorcery" or rock 'n roll being satanic music or any of all the millions of demands and limitations christian heap upon the shoulders of innocent people, people who according to the gospel are already 100% righteous, but who are subjected to some kind of purification process by christians around them.

I guess I lied, I said I'd make it short... but you know.

kellyc · Dec 11, 2008

holo, i think you have had a good experience. this being said, it doesn't make drug use any less a sin before God just because he delivered you from it in a way that was most acceptable to you. most drug abusers don't have that epiphany without some kind of accountability and outside help, so i will say that you are exceptional.

and, anyone who tells you that you will lose your salvation because of sin is wrong, so i am glad you were able to see beyond that.

Floatingaxe · Dec 11, 2008

Romans 14:1-9
1 Accept other believers who are weak in faith, and don’t argue with them about what they think is right or wrong. 2 For instance, one person believes it’s all right to eat anything. But another believer with a sensitive conscience will eat only vegetables. 3 Those who feel free to eat anything must not look down on those who don’t. And those who don’t eat certain foods must not condemn those who do, for God has accepted them. 4 Who are you to condemn someone else’s servants? They are responsible to the Lord, so let him judge whether they are right or wrong. And with the Lord’s help, they will do what is right and will receive his approval.
5 In the same way, some think one day is more holy than another day, while others think every day is alike. You should each be fully convinced that whichever day you choose is acceptable. 6 Those who worship the Lord on a special day do it to honor him. Those who eat any kind of food do so to honor the Lord, since they give thanks to God before eating. And those who refuse to eat certain foods also want to please the Lord and give thanks to God. 7 For we don’t live for ourselves or die for ourselves. 8 If we live, it’s to honor the Lord. And if we die, it’s to honor the Lord. So whether we live or die, we belong to the Lord. 9 Christ died and rose again for this very purpose—to be Lord both of the living and of the dead.

This scripture is regarding criticism of fellow believers. This thread is not about criticising believers, but rather helping them to see what sin is and that we care called to holiness. Calling people Jezebels and what not is definitely criticism and comes from a spirit that is pricked by conviction.

There is no coverage for taking mind-altering drugs there. Everyone knows that is sin. Anyone who thinks it is spiritually lawful to smoke pot is operationg under a powerful delusion. Resist it!

Ephesians 5:11
Take no part in the worthless deeds of evil and darkness; instead, expose them.

Instead of making excuses to partake of something that is sinful, it is a good thing to spend some time in prayer and ask someone in the faith to hold you accountable if there is a definite difficulty in resisting.

kellyc · Dec 11, 2008

yes floatingaxe, i think accountability is key for people in addictions. i didn't see anyone call someone else a jezebel but that would not be productive, and i can't see how it relates to this thread anyway.

Floatingaxe · Dec 11, 2008

. If Floatingaxe, for example, was God, I would've been chanceless (no offense, Floatingaxe, I'm just using you for an example here, you're no worse than most of us). They would've demanded I quit this and stopped that before I would be worthy of God and salvation.

I resent that you would personally draw me out into this.

I would do nothing of the sort and have never done so with anyone who has struggled with any sin.

Floatingaxe · Dec 11, 2008

kellyc said:
yes floatingaxe, i think accountability is key for people in addictions. i didn't see anyone call someone else a jezebel but that would not be productive, and i can't see how it relates to this thread anyway.

Neither do I, but if you will just scroll back you will see what I am referring to.

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
This scripture is regarding criticism of fellow believers. This thread is not about criticising believers, but rather helping them to see what sin is and that we care called to holiness. Calling people Jezebels and what not is definitely criticism and comes from a spirit that is pricked by conviction.

Ah, so you were in fact pricked by conviction all those times you said I had a Jezebel spirit? Good to know.

Floatingaxe said:
There is no coverage for taking mind-altering drugs there. Everyone knows that is sin. Anyone who thinks it is spiritually lawful to smoke pot is operationg under a powerful delusion. Resist it!

I'm not advocating drug use or anything else that is harmful. I can testify that it is. I don't need to try and make it even scarier by saying it has something to do with sorcery/demons/witchcraft.

Anyway, what do you mean by "spiritually lawful"? Do you have a list of sins in mind? If you want a list, you can find an extensive one in the OT. But those days ended with the new covenant. Now, "everythings is lawful, but not everything benefits". Which means it's not exactly a sin to drink a gallon a coffee a day, but it's not very beneficial either. And that's why you shouldn't do it. That's the wonder of it, isn't it - you don't need some moral threat of losing your salvation or stuff like that in order not to do stupid things, no, you are free to simply use your brain, and of course seek guidance from God and people if in doubt.

Floatingaxe · Dec 11, 2008

holo said:
Ah, so you were in fact pricked by conviction all those times you said I had a Jezebel spirit? Good to know.

Excuse me?

holo · Dec 11, 2008

kellyc said:
yes floatingaxe, i think accountability is key for people in addictions.

Trust usually works better than policing. Because policing someone, or having an "accountability partner" just assumes that yep, you're a vile old sinner, and you would love nothing more than to grab that bong and get stoned as a rock. Trust, on the other hand, believes the BEST about a person (just like Paul described LOVE in the bible!) and will actually inspire people to get BETTER.

You can force me to stop using drugs, but you can't change me from an addict to a free man. You can modify my behaviour, but not my identity. So it doesn't really fix the problem, it only makes it look better. Having an "accountability partner" is one of THE most unbiblical concepts ever made up, and I guarantee you it has never, ever, set anyone free from any sin. It cant. It's useless, it turns people into whitewashed graves.

God does the exact OPPISITE of an accountability partner. He doesn't say "I saw what you did there," but "hey, look what JESUS did HERE!" - and that's the only message that can save addicts like I used to be. I could take the courses and grades and learn to live with my addiction, I could go to church and learn how to please the christians. Or I could go to God who could actually make me a NEW person. Unlike men, God already saw me, and treated me, like a GOOD and FREE person. And thus I BECAME a good and free person. You see, just like when He created the world, there may be emptiness and void, but when God speaks, stuff happens. When He says something is so, it IS so. Go to people and they will call you an addict and try to fix you. Go to God and He will create a whole new person.

All that said, it's obviously good to have a person you can share your wins and losses with, someone to confess to when you need it. But you're not accountable to any man.

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
I resent that you would personally draw me out into this.

I would do nothing of the sort and have never done so with anyone who has struggled with any sin.

I apologize for that. I honestly didn't mean to offend you.

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Excuse me?

According to your own words...

BTW, you should stop trying to teach me stuff. I'm a man, you're a woman. You're not allowed to. It's right there in the bible

Floatingaxe · Dec 11, 2008

Accountability is a very useful practice for people to gain mastery over a behaviour that is not God-honouring or even just plain abominable!

I believe it is indeed biblically-based.

James 5:16
Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results.

Floatingaxe · Dec 11, 2008

holo said:
According to your own words...

BTW, you should stop trying to teach me stuff. I'm a man, you're a woman. You're not allowed to. It's right there in the bible

That is false. What is true is the lack of teachability. There is no teaching going on apart from what the Word of God is saying to us. Most of what is bothering you is opinion based on God's Word.

2 Chronicles 30:8
Do not be stubborn, as they were, but submit yourselves to the Lord. Come to his Temple, which he has set apart as holy forever. Worship the Lord your God so that his fierce anger will turn away from you.

Acts 7:51
“You stubborn people! You are heathen at heart and deaf to the truth. Must you forever resist the Holy Spirit? That’s what your ancestors did, and so do you!

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
Accountability is a very useful practice for people to gain mastery over a behaviour that is not God-honouring or even just plain abominable!

The world is full of methods to master certain behaviours, and I'm sure there are many that are much better than having an accountability partner.

But that's all it does (at best!) - it can help you force yourself to behave differently. It won't change your heart. In fact, it assumes that your heart cant' be changed, so heart-wise, it just makes matters worse.

Or to put it another way; it's one thing to force your kid to drive responsibly. It's quite another to turn him into a responsible person.

Floatingaxe said:
I believe it is indeed biblically-based.

A lot of things are based on the bible, like being afraid of drums, or entire congregations rolling over with laughter on cues. But it's not necessarily how God intended it to be...

Floatingaxe said:
James 5:16
Confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The earnest prayer of a righteous person has great power and produces wonderful results.

I support that. Go bible!

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
That is false. What is true is the lack of teachability. There is no teaching going on apart from what the Word of God is saying to us. Most of what is bothering you is opinion based on God's Word.

Oh. I thought you "were under" certain teachers. I guess that unlike every other human on the planet, these teachers don't have opinions. Or maybe it's you who don't have opinions, or maybe you possess some rare quality to never express it, rather God himself is speaking through you?

Or maybe you're just like all those wrong people, those other opinionless people how also claim to be speaking on behalf of God.

Hard to tell...

holo · Dec 11, 2008

Floatingaxe said:
There is no teaching going on apart from what the Word of God is saying to us.

Actually, there is. I'm teaching you that you're wrong. That's the first step. You know what the bible says about stubbornness, don't you?

Floatingaxe · Dec 11, 2008

Having an accountability partner is only a part of what a person does to gain freedom in an area. This is a spiritual problem and needs to be dealt with spiritually as well. Prayer, fasting and renouncing are all steps to gain freedom in christ--deliverance.

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