I could not believe this.

Higher Truth

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I recently read this article and I could not believe it. Why would a church dismiss a Pastor for taking an anti-abortion stance? Is this scriptural? I would like to hear the opinions of the members of the forum.

Rhema Pastor Expelled for Pro-Life Activism
Rhema leaders had warned him 'not to go to any abortion clinic ever'

By Eric Tiansay

A Wichita, Kan., pastor has been expelled from a worldwide charismatic ministry renowned for its message of faith and biblical prosperity because he was active in the pro-life movement. The move has prompted a New Jersey minister who is trying to raise awareness of the pastor's ouster to consider removing his congregation from the organization.

Mark Holick had his ordination revoked this summer by the Tulsa, Okla.-based Rhema Ministerial Association International (RMAI), which has more than 23,000 graduates and 13 schools worldwide.

For the last two years, Holick, who along with his wife, Monica, pastors 300-member Spirit One Christian Center, has joined other Wichita pastors in protesting the abortion clinic of local Dr. George Tiller, called "the most infamous late-term abortionist in the world" by the Christian pro-life group Operation Save America.

"They [RMAI leaders] informed me that my wife, any of our church leaders, and myself could not for any reason go to any abortion clinic ever, not even to pray," Holick, 41, said in a letter to Barry Ross, pastor of 100-member Word of Life Christian Church in Cologne, N.J., who has taken up his plight.

"They never told me specifically why...it was wrong for me if I chose to do so," continued Holick, who was dismissed by Rhema without a hearing. "I expressed to them that I have done nothing immoral, nothing unrighteous, nothing unbiblical, nothing unscriptural, nothing illegal, nothing sinful, but that if they felt that I had and pointed it out that I would gladly repent...I have made numerous requests to them for a meeting, to which they would not grant."

Rhema's Tulsa-based attorney, Tom Winters, told Charisma News Service that "Rhema is not for abortion." Winters said he advised RMAI leaders to revoke Holick's license because his pro-life activism could cause Rhema to be "potentially sued."

"Based on my advice, they took a safe and reasonable approach to deal with this," Winters said. "I advised them that the best way to handle this situation was to sever the relationship."

Ross, a 1981 Rhema graduate, told Charisma News that the Holicks have been dealt "a horrible injustice." Unsolicited by Holick, Ross said he has repeatedly tried to contact RMAI leaders about the Holicks, but his calls and letters have not generated any response.

"I'm following the biblical command -- first to Rhema, second to the regional directors and third to the body of Christ," said Ross, 48, who is weighing whether to remove his congregation from RMAI. "I've been stonewalled so far...They should own up to their decision. Why try to hide and not address it? I don't believe there is anything in our ministerial handbook or directory that tells us we can't do this [pro-life activism]. If something like abortion can't be protested, what can be protested?"

Winters declined comment on whether RMAI has a policy against pro-life involvement in its ministerial handbook. Holick, who voluntarily talked to Charisma News but later wanted to retract his comments, said he had seen several women forgo abortions at the clinic and give birth to their babies, partly through the pastors' pro-life outreach. Some of them had also become Christians.

Holick added that Rhema leaders had given him verbal and written warnings in the last year not to go to the clinic. "This is the first time I've ever been disobedient to anything they asked," the 1986 Rhema graduate said. "My feeling was I had to do this in order to obey the Word of God...I think Scripture is clear regarding what the responsibility of the church is concerning innocent blood."

RMAI evolved from the Rhema Bible Training Center, which was started by Kenneth Hagin Sr., and his son, Ken Jr., in 1974 in response to a demand for more teaching material from the Hagins' ministry.
 

wildernesse

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We need to remember that we're only hearing one side of this issue. Oftentimes, people are constrained from speaking about a person's personnel records and work background by law. The person who has been fired can make all sorts of claims, but the group firing the person is not at liberty to discuss the decision.

My mother has had to deal with this several times recently. A person was fired and then made a big stink (in the vein that he was a great Christian and that's why he was fired) in the entire community. What my mother couldn't tell the public because his personnel records were private, was that she had a laundry list of violations. Not only was he engaging in activities that would have the organization sued (church and state issues and racial discrimination) but he was insubordinate at every turn. There was a hint that he didn't like taking orders from a woman either.

My mother is very professional but told him that being a Christian didn't automatically mean he was any good at his job, and that she looked for excellent workers, not whether they were Christians or not. She lost a lot of very good friends over this issue and is trying to work out a lot of hard feelings over this still. Members of his church took out full page advertisements in the paper about how wonderful a person the man was, implying that my mother was being unfair when all they had was his word(something that was worth about as much as a bucket of warm spit).

We haven't lost the right to free speech--but free speech doesn't mean that you are free from the consequences of your speech. Also, since the government is not involved, your rights aren't being infringed. A private organization can have all sorts of rules that are not bound by the Constitution (see the Boy Scouts).

Anyway, this man is free to say and associate wherever he sees fit--just not as a member of this organization. I don't think he's lost any rights at all.

--tibac
 
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lisa03wilson

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I wonder how he was protesting. He might have been doing something the Rehma disapproved of, and that was the problem, not just his pro life status. Also, if everything was as this article said, then they told him before hand that he could not protest, and whether that was right or wrong of them, he still made the choice to disobey and should be ready for what comes of that. If the organization is so bad and wrong, why does he want to be in it anyway?
 
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wildernesse

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Shouldn't a private organization be able to set its own rules? If you don't like it, then don't support the organization.

That's what people are told when they disagree with the Boy Scouts. Why should it be any different for this organization?

You don't have a right to be a member of any organization you want to be.

--tibac
 
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crazyfingers

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Originally posted by Higher Truth
Okay....I give up...who is Fred Phelps?

Do a Google search on Fred Phelps.  You'll get a lot of stuff.

He is a Baptist preacher based in Wichita, Kansas and he travels the country on his war against gays.  I hesitate to post his website here for fear that the Mods will give me a warning for posting an offensive website.
 
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fragmentsofdreams

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Originally posted by Higher Truth
Okay....I give up...who is Fred Phelps?

Fred Phelps is the leader of the orginization that runs the website http://www.godhates****.com/. Members of his orginization demonstrate at the funerals of homosexuals, declaring that the deceased are burning in Hell. Phelps and his followers usurp Christ's place as Divine Judge, and their apparent glee at the idea of people burning in Hell is against Christian love in the extreme.
 
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