Atheists take aim at Christmas

the atheists should be thankful that they have somewhat of free speech.

staugustine68 said:

the atheists should be thankful that they have somewhat of free speech.

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What do you mean somewhat? We have just as much as everyone else.

Anyway, take them both out of the building.

The FFRF got permission to display the sign back in October. source

It is indeed next door to the Nativity Scene in the rotunda. The Seattle Times has ongoing coverage of the story, with some pictures. I have no idea where the "50-pound sign" thing comes from - the display is a simple printed poster on an easel.

I think the message on the sign could've been kinder. (I like the AHA's "Be good for goodness' sake" sign better.) But I'm still glad it's there at all. And I'm actually kind of glad it was stolen: it reveals that there are people so offended or threatened by a nonreligious message that they'll resort to illegal activity to silence it. I also appreciate the very public reminder that the Constitution is the law of the land, not the Bible.

Unfortunately the whole thing seems to be devolving into something of a fiasco. I'm left wondering if next year no displays will go up at all, effectively eliminating not only the atheist display religious folk hate so much, but the religious displays they champion.

Ultimately I just wish that everybody would chill out and have a relaxing Solstice.

That creche in the capital rotunda is really an annoying breach in the wall of separation. However, as President Josiah Bartlett said of the Red Mas, "sometimes you just say, 'what the heck.'"

Stuff like this makes me wonder how we'd view Jesus if he were around now, or Buddha, Muhammed, Guru Nanak or whoever. All had revolutionary counter-culture ideas that offended the established way, and so were considered dangerous or at least inappropriate. Centuries give them respectability, but I think if you want to live in the present you have to recognise things that may be ahead of their time. I think in a couple of generations, atheism will be widely accepted and people won't even understand why this was controversial.

The sign was tacky. Very, very tacky. It's sad to see when people are trying to "get their message out" and instead they just end up being rude and tacky. There's nothing wrong with having different views, but raining on another's celebration is rude, no matter who is doing it.

But why was a seasonal Christmas display (as opposed to some of the antique Christian-themed carvings on government building walls) put up in the first place on American government property? It doesn't seem that there were displays from other religious.

Really, the sign was about as mature as putting a sign out on your lawn that says "my neighbor's car is ugly and mine is better, nyah nyah". There's a much more mature, civil way to deal with religious matters, people!

BlackAndy said:

I saw the sign. It celebrates nothing. It mocks people of faith and nothing more.

Someone saw fit to remove it.

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It mocks Christianity in the same way that the nativity scene mocks non-Christians. It's an expression of an idea, nothing more. How many times have we seen Christians take shots at atheism and atheists, saying they're immoral and untrustworthy? That's rude, and yet the Christians have no problem saying these things.

And I'm getting sick of Christians acting like victims every time something like this happens. In a world where Christianity is one of the most widespread religions, and certainly the most powerful religion in America, and there are churches on just about every corner, and when so many shops are closed on Sunday because of that commandment about keeping the Sabbath holy, I don't see how Christians can act so victimised so much.

We atheists are much more victimised than you guys are.

Tiberius said:

It mocks Christianity in the same way that the nativity scene mocks non-Christians. It's an expression of an idea, nothing more. How many times have we seen Christians take shots at atheism and atheists, saying they're immoral and untrustworthy? That's rude, and yet the Christians have no problem saying these things.

And I'm getting sick of Christians acting like victims every time something like this happens. In a world where Christianity is one of the most widespread religions, and certainly the most powerful religion in America, and there are churches on just about every corner, and when so many shops are closed on Sunday because of that commandment about keeping the Sabbath holy, I don't see how Christians can act so victimised so much.

We atheists are much more victimised than you guys are.

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Don't be silly--Christians can do no wrong, and it's always someone else's fault somehow.

It seems to me that things like this are perfect opportunities for Christians to take Christmas back. This is what happens when you rely on others to facilitate your religion. What if Christians put together Christmas displays and organized Christmas events themselves instead of demanding that others do it for them while they sit back and do nothing? When folks just kick back and demand that the government, schools, retail chains et. al. administer their holiday this is what happens. To sit back and bemoan at what a lousy job others are doing at handling your holiday is laughable. Griping, complaining and basically shaming others into facilitating your holiday leads to exactly this sort of thing.

Man, why so much intolerance for Christians?

BlackAndy said:

Man, why so much intolerance for Christians?

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Probably because of their intolerance for everyone else (or, to be fair, the intolerance of the nation's most visible christians)?

Tiberius said:

It mocks Christianity in the same way that the nativity scene mocks non-Christians. It's an expression of an idea, nothing more. How many times have we seen Christians take shots at atheism and atheists, saying they're immoral and untrustworthy? That's rude, and yet the Christians have no problem saying these things.

And I'm getting sick of Christians acting like victims every time something like this happens. In a world where Christianity is one of the most widespread religions, and certainly the most powerful religion in America, and there are churches on just about every corner, and when so many shops are closed on Sunday because of that commandment about keeping the Sabbath holy, I don't see how Christians can act so victimised so much.

We atheists are much more victimised than you guys are.

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Rubbish. The sign says in so many words that any religion polutes your mind. That is far different from a nativity scene or any afirrmative sign or display.

A Christmas tree mocks Christians in the same way that a nativity scene mocks non Christians.

Hail Odin!

I just wish I could get my fellow Christians on board with the fact that It's Not Christmas Yet. It's Advent.

Christmas doesn't start until Dec. 25.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr....frustrated liturgist......grrrrrrrrr

Donkeytron said:

Probably because of their intolerance for everyone else (or, to be fair, the intolerance of the nation's most visible christians)?

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That statement seethes with hypocrisy...

BlackAndy said:

That statement seethes with hypocrisy...

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That's nice. I wasn't kidding, some people dont appreciate the fact that some christians in america do their damndest to legislate their particular interpretation of the bible.

It infuriates me all the time, the whole "don't say merry christmas" jazz. But we will continue to say it, and it's already coming back a lot this year. Christmas will never die.

Merry Christmas!

can anyone explain why the nativity was up in the first place?

The nativity should be taken out as well as the sign. This has no place in a government building. Why can't the Christians that get all offended realize that there is a separation of church and state? Keep it secular, then there will be no nonsense