Is Everybody going to heaven?

Will everyone go to heaven?

  • Yes: Hell does not exist

  • Yes: Hell does exist but it is not permenant (God will rehab every soul)

  • No:There is a literal hell and those who go there never come back

  • I don't have an opinion / undecided


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Svt4Him

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Since He was willing to forgive those committing murder and publically jeering Him, doesn' t it stand to reason that He's willing to forgive all?
God is willing to forgive all. But we then go back to if God's will is always fulfilled, which I've already shown it is not. The perfect will of God would be for man to not sin at all. So God in His greatness has provided a way for all man to be forgiven, man just ignores it. God resists the proud, gives grace to the humble.
 
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ANM29

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What is the obsession with 'heaven"?..Both heaven and hell are temporary dwelling places, and no not all will go to heaven and not all will go to hell...neither group will live eternally in either place because neither are 'eternal'...We are called to live on earth forever and ever with God...( the NEW EARTH ONE DAY )..I am not concerned about heaven. The concern should be if your nmae is written in the Lambs Books of Life or not..because that means that God will totally destroy you and all else that goes into the Lake of Fire....OR, you may just get purified.........Fire either purifies or destroys.........

..The Lake of Fire is for either purification or to destroy...Some will be totally destroyed along with hell and death in the Lake..some will not, some will be purified....that is my belief and I am sticking with it, till I get a new revelation..lol!!..I love this journey with the Lord...amazing............amazing.......

Hell seems to be a place for so-called believers for a period, those who claimed "lord, lord"...I believe the lake will serve a different purpose, a place where some will be destroyed, never to exist again with hell and death........

Either way, I no longer believe ALL will be saved per say anyway...I do believe there will be a small 'few' who will be destroyed totally...the rest will be saved, even if it takes the Lake to do it..But, still not many will be destroyed, but the totally wicked will...Still for the most part, the majority will be saved....but may not necessarily visit 'heaven'....
 
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DeborahsSong

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Hellfire is no refining fire! You can bet on it. Anyone who claims it is, is believing a lie from Satan. He's just trying to get more company.

Jesus himself said that the wicked would be thrown into a fiery furnace, and the Greek word used for furnace refers to a refining furnace. Fire and brimstone were used in ancient times and today to refine precious metals. Brimstone was also used in ancient times for purification rites. Or do you not think that the lake of fire and the fiery furnace or the same?

In Isaiah, God says he gets revenge on his enemies by removing their dross, thus refining them and making them into a righteous city.

To those who are interested in what scripture says, rather than constantly regurgitating what they've been taught in the pews, word studies on refining, furnace and fire are very insightful.
 
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Floatingaxe

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Jesus himself said that the wicked would be thrown into a fiery furnace, and the Greek word used for furnace refers to a refining furnace. Fire and brimstone were used in ancient times and today to refine precious metals. Brimstone was also used in ancient times for purification rites. Or do you not think that the lake of fire and the fiery furnace or the same?

In Isaiah, God says he gets revenge on his enemies by removing their dross, thus refining them and making them into a righteous city.

To those who are interested in what scripture says, rather than constantly regurgitating what they've been taught in the pews, word studies on refining, furnace and fire are very insightful.


That's a huge stretch. Jesus never ever said anyone would be released out of that "fiery furnace"!!

You need to familiarize yourself with the Word of
God as well as the living Jesus Christ Himself for proper understanding of His Judgment as opposed to the Great White Throne judgment. Isaiah talks about God's fashioning and disciplining of His people, the Jews.

We are discussing here THE END OF THINGS! There is an end, and to the wicked, it will end in hellfire along with saran and his angels.
 
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Faulty

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That's a huge stretch. Jesus never ever said anyone would be released out of that "fiery furnace"!!

You need to familiarize yourself with the Word of God as well as the living Jesus Christ Himself for proper understanding of His Judgment as opposed to the Great White Throne judgment. Isaiah talks about God's fashioning and disciplining of His people, the Jews.

We are discussing here THE END OF THINGS! There is an end, and to the wicked, it will end in hellfire along with saran and his angels.

Don't you remember the refining God did in Sodom and Gomorrah which was brought about using fire and brimstone? He refined it so good it was completely destroyed. :doh:

Genesis 19:24-25
"Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground."
 
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DeborahsSong

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Now, in regard to God's enemies, are you saying that God deals differently with Jewish enemies? They don't get flung into the lake of fire? Scripture says God gets revenge on his enemies by removing their dross, refining them and making them into a righteous city. (Isa 1:25, 26) Seems to me enemies are enemies, apostates or apostates and God is delineating his concept of revenge. How different it is from man's!

"A hugh stretch"? Not so, for scripture closely links fiery furnaces with the refining process. (Note, by contrast, Nebuchadnezzar's furnace was not a refining furnace, but an above the ground construction. It's purpose was to inflict pain for pain's sake.) Egypt, for example, is referred to as an iron smelting furnace. The word most commonly used for furnace is kibshan, which means a smelting furnace for reducing metals. It occurs in Isa 48:10,11 where God is addressing Jewish rebels who refuse to listen to him or testify to what he had done (rather like the Great White Throne group). "See, I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another." It's a bit off topic, but where is his respect for their "free will"?

Kibshan also occurs in Eze 22:18-22, where God purviews the entire refining process: "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace. They are but the dross of silver. Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: 'Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. As men gather silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a furnace to melt it with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you. I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the LORD have poured out my wrath upon you.' " The purpose of the second smelt is not to inflict pain for pain's sake, but to correct.

The word for furnace in Malachi describes a firepot. However, it, too, is linked with the refining process. "But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap. He will sit as a refiner and purifer of silver....." (Mal 3:2,3)

Jesus says that the wicked will be thrown into a fiery furnace, kaminos in the Greek, a refining furnace. They, too, receive corrective punishment, since the Greek word used for punishment in Mt 25:46 refers to remedial punishment designed to benefit those who receive it.

This just briefly touches on some of the references to furnaces, fire and refining. That is why word studies on them is so helpful in understanding the purpose of the lake of fire and the Great White Throne judgment.
 
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DeborahsSong

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Don't you remember the refining God did in Sodom and Gomorrah which was brought about using fire and brimstone? He refined it so good it was completely destroyed. :doh:

Genesis 19:24-25
"Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground."

I'm so glad you mentioned this, for it is another example of the use and purpose of kibshan (refining furnace), since it is referenced in verse 20. Sodom and Gormorrah were not completely destroyed. Their destruction was a change of state, not annihilation. (He is God of the living, not the dead, for all our alive to him.) We encounter them in the NT, where Jesus says it will be more bearable for them on the day of judgment than the towns and villages that reject him. Peter also says that Sodom and Gomorrah serve as examples of the fate of the ungodly.

That fate is the refiner's furnace, not torture for torture's sake. One refines to extract what is precious. A refining furnace has no other purpose. Brimstone is used to refine precious metals.

"This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God'" Zech 13:9 Everyone in God's fiery (refining) furnace, the lake of fire, will make a like confession with knee bowed.
 
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Svt4Him

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Fire and brimstone were used in ancient times and today to refine precious metals. Brimstone was also used in ancient times for purification rites.

Please site this for me. And I don't follow the logic of S&G not being destroyed, they will serve as an example, but that is in their punishment, not in the fact that anyone lived.
 
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Faulty

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I'm so glad you mentioned this, for it is another example of the use and purpose of kibshan (refining furnace), since it is referenced in verse 20. Sodom and Gormorrah were not completely destroyed. Their destruction was a change of state, not annihilation. (He is God of the living, not the dead, for all our alive to him.) We encounter them in the NT, where Jesus says it will be more bearable for them on the day of judgment than the towns and villages that reject him. Peter also says that Sodom and Gomorrah serve as examples of the fate of the ungodly.

That fate is the refiner's furnace, not torture for torture's sake. One refines to extract what is precious. A refining furnace has no other purpose. Brimstone is used to refine precious metals.

"This third I will bring into the fire; I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on my name and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they will say, 'The LORD is our God'" Zech 13:9 Everyone in God's fiery (refining) furnace, the lake of fire, will make a like confession with knee bowed.

Interesting because the Bible teaches that area is desolate.

Zeph:2:9: Therefore as I live, saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, even the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them.

And again in Ezekiel 47:11 "But the miry places thereof and the marshes thereof shall not be healed; they shall be given to salt." This is a verse in the midst of the description of the rebirth of the Dead Sea during the Millennium. These miry and marshy places are on the south side of that sea, and is the location of the ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah. Even in His kingdom, the place will remain desolate.

I still don't see any refining going on. In fact, I see a case for total annihilation.
 
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Floatingaxe

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Don't you remember the refining God did in Sodom and Gomorrah which was brought about using fire and brimstone? He refined it so good it was completely destroyed. :doh:

Genesis 19:24-25
"Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven; And he overthrew those cities, and all the plain, and all the inhabitants of the cities, and that which grew upon the ground."


smilesun.jpg
 
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Floatingaxe

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Now, in regard to God's enemies, are you saying that God deals differently with Jewish enemies? They don't get flung into the lake of fire? Scripture says God gets revenge on his enemies by removing their dross, refining them and making them into a righteous city. (Isa 1:25, 26) Seems to me enemies are enemies, apostates or apostates and God is delineating his concept of revenge. How different it is from man's!

"A hugh stretch"? Not so, for scripture closely links fiery furnaces with the refining process. (Note, by contrast, Nebuchadnezzar's furnace was not a refining furnace, but an above the ground construction. It's purpose was to inflict pain for pain's sake.) Egypt, for example, is referred to as an iron smelting furnace. The word most commonly used for furnace is kibshan, which means a smelting furnace for reducing metals. It occurs in Isa 48:10,11 where God is addressing Jewish rebels who refuse to listen to him or testify to what he had done (rather like the Great White Throne group). "See, I have refined you, though not as silver; I have tested you in the furnace of affliction. For my own sake, for my own sake, I do this. How can I let myself be defamed? I will not yield my glory to another." It's a bit off topic, but where is his respect for their "free will"?

Kibshan also occurs in Eze 22:18-22, where God purviews the entire refining process: "Son of man, the house of Israel has become dross to me; all of them are the copper, tin, iron and lead left inside a furnace. They are but the dross of silver. Therefore this is what the Sovereign LORD says: 'Because you have all become dross, I will gather you into Jerusalem. As men gather silver, copper, iron, lead and tin into a furnace to melt it with a fiery blast, so will I gather you in my anger and my wrath and put you inside the city and melt you. I will gather you and I will blow on you with my fiery wrath, and you will be melted inside her. As silver is melted in a furnace, so you will be melted inside her, and you will know that I the LORD have poured out my wrath upon you.' " The purpose of the second smelt is not to inflict pain for pain's sake, but to correct.

The word for furnace in Malachi describes a firepot. However, it, too, is linked with the refining process. "But who can endure the day of his coming? Who can stand when he appears? For he will be like a refiner's fire or a launderer's soap. He will sit as a refiner and purifer of silver....." (Mal 3:2,3)

Jesus says that the wicked will be thrown into a fiery furnace, kaminos in the Greek, a refining furnace. They, too, receive corrective punishment, since the Greek word used for punishment in Mt 25:46 refers to remedial punishment designed to benefit those who receive it.

This just briefly touches on some of the references to furnaces, fire and refining. That is why word studies on them is so helpful in understanding the purpose of the lake of fire and the Great White Throne judgment.

Your theology is based on wishful thinking only and not good exegesis whatsoever. It's a fantasy to make the heresy of Universalism fit. I reject it. The Scriptures are clear.
 
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Svt4Him

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Do you know what the word devil even means? Is the flesh not the one waring with the spirit? good grief!:doh:

2 Corinth 4:4- In their case, the god of this world has blinded the minds of those who do not believe to keep them from seeing the light of the glorious gospel of the Messiah, who is the image of God.

The god of this world is not self, as you can see the above verse it is not gods it is god. There is only one god of this world. If arguing semantics helps, you will also see it doesn't say devil, it says the god of this world.
:cool:
 
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DeborahsSong

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Interesting because the Bible teaches that area is desolate.

OF COURSE THE AREA IS DESOLATE. IT IS THE DROSS-WORTHLESS. "FOR THE LORD WATCHES OVER THE WAY OF THE RIGHTEOUS BUT THE WAY OF THE WICKED WILL PERISH" (PS 1:6)

I still don't see any refining going on.

THE NARRATIVE INCLUDES A REFINING FURNACE, AND 2 ELEMENTS NEEDED TO REFINE PRECIOUS METAL-FIRE AND BRIMSTONE. FIRE IS A PURIFYING AGENT IN SCRIPTURE. PAGAN MYTHOLOGY VIEWS IT AS AN INSTRUMENT OF TORTURE.

In fact, I see a case for total annihilation.

IMPOSSIBLE-JESUS REFERS TO SODOM IN A FUTURE TENSE. THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THE TOWNS WERE NOT ANNIHILATED. GOD IS GOD OF THE LIVING, NOT THE DEAD FOR ALL ARE ALIVE TO HIM.
 
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DeborahsSong

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God is willing to forgive all. But we then go back to if God's will is always fulfilled, which I've already shown it is not.

GOD IS OMNIPOTENT. IT IS IMPOSSIBLE FOR HIS WILL NOT TO BE FULFILLED. (SEE PREVIOUS RECENT POSTS THERE THIS MATTER IS DISCUSSED IN DETAIL).

The perfect will of God would be for man to not sin at all.

NOT SO, GOD KNOWS GOOD AND EVIL AND HE CREATED MAN IN HIS IMAGE. MAN MUST POSSESS THE KNOWLEDGE OF GOOD AND EVIL TO COME TO MATURITY. THAT IS WHY THE TREE WAS PROVIDED FOR HIM IN THE GARDEN.

So God in His greatness has provided a way for all man to be forgiven, man just ignores it.

DEAR POT, WHAT HAS GOD TO SAY TO THOSE WHO IGNORE HIM? "YET YOU HAVE NOT CALLED UPON ME, O JACOB,YOU HAVE NOT WEARIED YOURSELVES FOR ME, O ISRAEL."(ISA 43:22). ON THE CONTRARY, THEY HAVE WEARIED AND BURDENED GOD WITH THEIR SINS AND OFFENSES. GOD'S RESPONSE IS NOT, "WELL IT'S YOUR CHOICE. I'M OUTTA HERE." NO, INSTEAD HE SAYS " I, EVEN I, AM HE WHO BLOTS OUT YOUR TRANSGRESSIONS, FOR MY OWN SAKE, AND REMEMBERS YOUR SINS NO MORE." (VS 24). HE ADDRESSES "THE PEOPLE I FORMED FOR MYSELF THAT THEY MAY PROCLAIM MY PRAISE." (VS 21).

IN OTHERS WORDS, WE'RE HERE FOR GOD, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. OR AS PAUL PUTS IT: "FOR FROM HIM AND THROUGH HIM AND TO HIM ARE ALL THINGS. TO HIM BE THE GLORY FOREVER! AMEN." (RO 11:36). ACCORDING TO COL 1:16 "ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM AND FOR HIM."

God resists the proud, gives grace to the humble.

THERE'S A REASON GOD RESISTS THE PROUD. "FOR GOD WILL HAVE ALL MEN TO BE SAVED AND TO COME UNTO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH." (1 TIM 2:4) WE WERE PREORDAINED ACCORDING TO THE PURPOSE OF HIS WILL AND HE WORKS OUT EVERYTHING IN ACCORDANCE TO HIS WILL (EPH 1:11).
 
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Faulty

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Interesting because the Bible teaches that area is desolate.

OF COURSE THE AREA IS DESOLATE. IT IS THE DROSS-WORTHLESS. "FOR THE LORD WATCHES OVER THE WAY OF THE RIGHTEOUS BUT THE WAY OF THE WICKED WILL PERISH" (PS 1:6)

I still don't see any refining going on.

THE NARRATIVE INCLUDES A REFINING FURNACE, AND 2 ELEMENTS NEEDED TO REFINE PRECIOUS METAL-FIRE AND BRIMSTONE. FIRE IS A PURIFYING AGENT IN SCRIPTURE. PAGAN MYTHOLOGY VIEWS IT AS AN INSTRUMENT OF TORTURE.

In fact, I see a case for total annihilation.

IMPOSSIBLE-JESUS REFERS TO SODOM IN A FUTURE TENSE. THE PEOPLE WHO LIVED IN THE TOWNS WERE NOT ANNIHILATED. GOD IS GOD OF THE LIVING, NOT THE DEAD FOR ALL ARE ALIVE TO HIM.

Did it take long for you to buy into this?
 
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