The Great Mystery of Godliness

light_eclipseca · Dec 2, 2008

Come on, we all know Creeds and Councils are errant. And I don't think that the star trek guy thinks Greek Philosophy is above Scripture. He knows God's Word is above Tradition. And I'm dissappointed in all of us in turning theology into name calling and rhetoric. Let's actually just look at this in depth. If we're going to say anything, let it be meaningful and Scriptural and logical.

I'm not pointing fingers. But we're not getting anywhere when we have to resort to rhetoric.

Yes history has its place to guide us, and yes philosophy can be vain if it's used improperly.

I'm not saying we have to agree on what we believe all at once, but we need to argue with substance and without disrespect.

Blackhawk · Dec 3, 2008

light_eclipseca said:
Come on, we all know Creeds and Councils are errant. And I don't think that the star trek guy thinks Greek Philosophy is above Scripture. He knows God's Word is above Tradition. And I'm dissappointed in all of us in turning theology into name calling and rhetoric. Let's actually just look at this in depth. If we're going to say anything, let it be meaningful and Scriptural and logical.

I'm not pointing fingers. But we're not getting anywhere when we have to resort to rhetoric.

Yes history has its place to guide us, and yes philosophy can be vain if it's used improperly.

I'm not saying we have to agree on what we believe all at once, but we need to argue with substance and without disrespect.

The creeds are scriptural. They use scriptural language often. But no I will not stop pointing fingers if another is speaking heresy. There are not two subjects. There is one. Scripture does not speak of two Christ's. It speaks of one. It states that JC is the Emmanuel or God with us. He is one and he is God and He is man. But again he is one. There is no scripture to contradict His claims that there are two subjects because that heresy never came up at that time. But scripture always treats Christ in the singular or as one subject. The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us. The Word is the one subject in that piece of scripture. I would ask anyone to show me any scripture where Christ is treated as two subjects or beings. This is not Grek Philosophy. That argument is passe anyways. It is scriptural. It is just a comment on how SCripture speaks of Christ. It treats Christ as one person with two natures. Not two beings or two subjects. Anyone who says that Christ is two beings should be in the unorthodox theology section or the nonChristian section of this website. And BTW I am an old timer her on this site. I used to be a mod long ago. I have not been around here in awhile but it seems that many things do not change.

light_eclipseca · Dec 3, 2008

Blackhawk said:
The creeds are scriptural. They use scriptural language often. But no I will not stop pointing fingers if another is speaking heresy. There are not two subjects. There is one. Scripture does not speak of two Christ's. It speaks of one. It states that JC is the Emmanuel or God with us. He is one and he is God and He is man. But again he is one. There is no scripture to contradict His claims that there are two subjects because that heresy never came up at that time. But scripture always treats Christ in the singular or as one subject. The Word became Flesh and dwelt among us. The Word is the one subject in that piece of scripture. I would ask anyone to show me any scripture where Christ is treated as two subjects or beings. This is not Grek Philosophy. That argument is passe anyways. It is scriptural. It is just a comment on how SCripture speaks of Christ. It treats Christ as one person with two natures. Not two beings or two subjects. Anyone who says that Christ is two beings should be in the unorthodox theology section or the nonChristian section of this website. And BTW I am an old timer her on this site. I used to be a mod long ago. I have not been around here in awhile but it seems that many things do not change.

What I meant to say was that we all know they are not on the same level as Scripture and there is possibility of errancy with them. I agree with you about the Creeds. I agree they are scriptural. If you read my post, however you'll realize that I was talking about respect, and how we are to respond to people with respect and gentleness. Had nothing to do with whether or not the Creeds are correct.

Blackhawk · Dec 4, 2008

light_eclipseca said:
What I meant to say was that we all know they are not on the same level as Scripture and there is possibility of errancy with them. I agree with you about the Creeds. I agree they are scriptural. If you read my post, however you'll realize that I was talking about respect, and how we are to respond to people with respect and gentleness. Had nothing to do with whether or not the Creeds are correct.

I was not really name calling. I was calling a spade a spade. If one beleives in two beings or subjects in Christ then he or she is a heretic. It is more loving to call them that than to act like that are not.

GraceSeeker · Dec 4, 2008

Blackhawk said:
I was not really name calling. I was calling a spade a spade.

It seems to me, that saying something of this nature might in and of itself be a type of name calling. Can you see how it might come across that way?

If one beleives in two beings or subjects in Christ then he or she is a heretic. It is more loving to call them that than to act like that are not.

I agree such a person might be in error, but there is more than one definition to the term heretic, that confuses the issue.

For some, a heretic is anyone who speaks something other than the truth. If one thinks about it, since we all fall short of the glory of God and since we all see only in a glass darkly, we are probably all heretics under than definition.

The older, classical definition is that a heretic is someone who was once a part of the Church, heard and accepted the truth, and has now turned their backs on that teaching to proclaim a teaching identified by the church as false. That's quite a few criteria that has to be met for a person to be a heretic by those standards. But a key among them is that people who never knew nor accepted the truth to begin with are technically not heretics. Hence, from the perspective of the Catholic Church, Martin Luther was a heretic, but modern day Lutherans are not.

Terral · Dec 6, 2008

Hi Beloved:

beloved57 said:
1 tim 3:

16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

The most unique being to ever grace the world, the planet, is The Lord Jesus christ, Gods only begotten Son.

Wow! We seem to be making progress in recognizing the differences between the “Only True God” and Jesus Christ (F+S+HS) of the same verse. Jn 17:3. :0) BTW, we are looking at a verse that is translated differently in various Bibles, because the original Greek in the Received and Critical Texts contain one difference: The Received Text reads “oeos” (God) was manifested, while the older Egyptian manuscripts making up the Critical Text read “os” (who) was manifested. The New American Standard Bible translation says,

“By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who was revealed in the flesh, Was vindicated in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Proclaimed among the nations, Believed on in the world, Taken up in glory.” 1Timothy 3:16.

Those among us trying to transform the “Son of God” into the “God” who raised Him from the dead are far more likely to select the new Antiochian version making up the Received Text, which fits right in with their “Jesus = God” false dogma. That is the reason I am a bit dismayed by Beloved’s references to the Only Begotten Son OF GOD (John 3:18), because usually he makes the same mistake.

beloved57 said:
Only begotten is the greek word:
monogençs:
single of its kind, only
a) used of only sons or daughters (viewed in relation to their parents)
b) used of Christ, denotes the only begotten son of God

Beloved Commentary >> Jesus is Unique indeed to serve Gods redemptive purpose. Jesus christ is Two beings, Divine and Human [man]

No, no and NO!!! How can you people sit there and type out that Jesus is a mere human??? Try to find just one use of ‘divine’ and ‘Jesus’ in the same verse! Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” and “The Word” (John 1:1-3) made flesh (John 1:14), but the ‘greatest’ born of women is John the Baptist. Matt. 11:11a. If the greatest born of women is John the Baptist (this is ridiculous), then just how do you sit there and transform the “Son of God” into a mere human? :0) That does not even make sense . . . All things were created ‘and’ hold together IN Christ (Col. 1:15-17), so obviously He is MUCH more than a mere human being . . .

beloved57 said:
This is the great mystery of Godliness and sets forth the true doctrine of Immanuel Matt 1:

23Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

The reason that “God” is “with us” is because “God was IN Christ” reconciling the world to Himself (2Cor. 5:19). Jesus Christ is still the “Son of God” who God Himself raised from the dead. Romans 10:9. In fact, you are missing the point of Paul’s teaching to Timothy COMPLETELY, because Paul is talking about “Christ IN you” (Col. 1:27) where God is being manifested in OUR FLESH through His Living Word (Christ In you) pictured in Figure 3 (here). Beloved is making the classic mistake of ignoring Paul’s use of the ‘aorist tense’ (1Tim. 3:16 BLB) that has been translated into the ‘past tense,’ because these scholars DO NOT have “Christ IN you” to show them the difference. :0)

beloved57 said:
One in whom it pleased the father that the fulness of the Godhead dwelleth: col 2:

9For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead[ Deity] bodily.

Beloved Commentary >> Yes He has two natures, and even moreso, He is two beings in one person.

No, no and NO!! Since when did “God IN Christ” become a mere being? Beloved is trying to sell the Roman Catholic “Jesus is God/man” false doctrine representing the ‘status quo’ around this place. God = God and Jesus Christ is the Son of God and everyone here is a ‘man’ or a ‘woman’ representing mere human beings. Christ Jesus is the “One Mediator” BETWEEN God ‘and’ men (under red arrow), because the “Son of God” is something very much BETWEEN GOD ‘AND’ MEN. Period! Roman Catholicism sells the LIE that the “one Mediator” BETWEEN God ‘and’ men is BOTH “God” AND a mere ‘man,’ which places the “Son of God” in all three categories at the very same time! :0) So which is it? Is Christ Jesus “God!!!,” OR is He a mere ‘man’ (ouch!), or can you agree with Scripture that He is the “Son of God” (2Cor 1:19) like everybody else in Scripture? :0) Here is the deal: If you do NOT know Jesus Christ as the “Son of the Living God,” THEN you might be tricked into transforming Him into the “one God” AND/OR mere ‘men’ of the same cotton picking verse! 1Timothy 2:5.

beloved57 said:
There is no nature without a being, there is no Divine being without a divine nature and there is no human being without a human nature..and yet He is one person..

This is nothing but a bunch of ‘talk’ with no support in Scripture whatsoever. Jesus Christ is the “Son of God.” John 1:34. God is the same “Only True God” (Jn 17:3) who raised Him from the dead. Romans 10:9. Mere men represents people just like you very much in need of a Savior, as sin spread to ALL MEN (Romans 5:12). Well, did Jesus Christ sin? No! 2Cor. 5:21. That simple fact tells you that He (Son of God) is no mere man!

beloved57 said:
He derived his sacred human nature from The Father, and He recieves His Divine Nature from God the word..

More bullony! There is no such thing as any sacred human nature, as you just saw that sin spread to ALL MEN.

beloved57 said:
In His Divine being He is uncreated and unbegotten, and in His humanity he was begotten before time [as we know it as finite creatures] began..

Now the “Only Begotten Son of God” is not even begotten. :0) Someone explain how the “Only Begotten Son OF GOD” is unbegotten! :0) This is ridiculous! Beloved does NOT know whether to transform the “Only Begotten Son OF GOD” into the “one God” or mere “men” of the same verse! 1Timothy 2:5.

beloved57 said:
This is a great mystery, not many will be able to receive it..

indebted to ron pounds for some of these special thoughts..

This mystery of “Christ IN you” is great, but the vast majority (the "many") here has no idea about what that even means. :0) Here is a good translation that accurately reflects the aorist tense for these verbs:

“By common confession, great is the mystery of godliness: He who is being revealed in the flesh, is being vindicated in the Spirit, being seen by angels, being proclaimed among the nations, being believed on in the world, being taken up in glory.” 1Timothy 3:16.

The common error is to run backwards into the Four Gospels rather than into Paul’s Epistles describing “Christ IN you” according to “this mystery among the Gentiles.” Colossians 1:27. Remember always that ‘we’ (Body of Christ = Church #2) have known Christ according to the flesh, BUT we know Him this way “NO LONGER.”

“Therefore from now on ‘we’ recognize NO ONE according to the flesh; even though ‘we’ HAVE KNOWN Christ according to the flesh, yet ‘now’ we know Him in this way NO LONGER. Therefore “IF” anyone is “IN” Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.” 2Corinthians 5:16-17.

First of all, Christ Jesus is “The Word/Son of God” IN WHOM all things of this universe was created ‘and’ all things in this universe hold together IN Him. Colossians 1:15-17 (in red). The ‘mystery’ (Vine's) teaching that Paul is passing to Timothy is that “Christ IN you” is a microcosm incarnation of “Christ Jesus” contained in EVERY member of Christ’s Body being ‘revealed in the flesh’ (your flesh) and being ‘vindicated in the Spirit,’ being ‘seen by the angels’ (in you) being “proclaimed among the nations” (through the evangelists), being ‘believed on in the world’ (believers in our gospel) being ‘taken up in glory’ (at our Rapture = 1Thes. 4:15-17). When you finally come to the realization that “Christ IN you” is the subject of this “mystery of godliness,” at some point in the ages to come, THEN the stage will be set for the larger realization that “God is IN Christ” reconciling the universe TO HIMSELF from right inside “Christ IN you” where The Word (Christ) and God are becoming “ONE.” :0)

A link to my manuscript “The Mystery Explained” (link) once appeared in my Signature where all of these things are explained in over 700 pages including 80 diagrams, but the powers-that-be here saw fit to delete that link to my own private custom-made Signature. Why? Go right ahead and ask them . . . I am,

In Christ Jesus the Son of God,

Terral

light_eclipseca · Dec 6, 2008

Blackhawk said:
I was not really name calling. I was calling a spade a spade. If one beleives in two beings or subjects in Christ then he or she is a heretic. It is more loving to call them that than to act like that are not.

I wasn't talking about that. I was saying that there was a lot of rhetoric going on without substance. I didn't say it was from you.

BrendanMark · Dec 25, 2008

St Thomas Aquinas answered this one very thoroughly, I think. Two natures, one hypostasis/person. The whole text can be found at http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/aquinas/summa/sum468.htm.

OF CHRIST'S UNITY OF BEING (TWO ARTICLES)

We must now consider what pertains to Christ's unity in common. For, in their proper place, we must consider what pertains to unity and plurality in detail: thus we concluded (Q[9]) that there is not only one knowledge in Christ, and it will be concluded hereafter (Q[35], A[2]) that there is not only one nativity in Christ.

Hence we must consider Christ's unity (1) of being; (2) of will; (3) of operation.

Under the first head there are two points of inquiry:

(1) Whether Christ is one or two?
(2) Whether there is only one being in Christ?

. . .

On the contrary, Everything is said to be a being, inasmuch as it is one, for one and being are convertible. Therefore, if there were two beings in Christ, and not one only, Christ would be two, and not one.

. . .

If, therefore, the human nature accrued to the Son of God, not hypostatically or personally, but accidentally, as some maintained, it would be necessary to assert two beings in Christ---one, inasmuch as He is God---the other, inasmuch as He is Man; even as in Socrates we place one being inasmuch as he is white, and another inasmuch as he is a man, since "being white" does not pertain to the personal being of Socrates.

. . .

And thus, since the human nature is united to the Son of God, hypostatically or personally as was said above (Q[2], AA[5],6), and not accidentally, it follows that by the human nature there accrued to Him no new personal being, but only a new relation of the pre-existing personal being to the human nature, in such a way that the Person is said to subsist not merely in the Divine, but also in the human nature.

Terral · Dec 26, 2008

Hi BredanMark with Light Eclipseca mentioned:

May I say to begin that there is some agreement with Light Eclipseca that “we all know Creeds and Councils are errant” (Post #21), so long as we add the ‘old dead church fathers’ like Thomas Aquinas. The topic is “The Mystery of Godliness” that Paul describes to Timothy in 1Timothy 3:16 and not “Doctrinal Precepts Teaching Roman Catholicism And Other MYTHS.” Mr. Aquinas has just as much right to be wrong as everyone here and if he is writing commentary for 1Timothy 3:16, then I am the man in the cotton picking moon.

BrendanMark said:
St Thomas Aquinas answered this one very thoroughly, I think. Two natures, one hypostasis/person. The whole text can be found at http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/aquinas/summa/sum468.htm.

OF CHRIST'S UNITY OF BEING (TWO ARTICLES)

This is nonsense and another topic entirely where Mr. Aquinas is attempting to teach the Roman Catholic Dogma of Jesus = God/man. For those yet to be blinded by such trickery: Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) or the “Son of the Living God” (Matt. 16:15-17) and very much at the “right hand of God” (Col. 3:1-3) making intercession for the ‘real’ saints right this moment as we speak. Romans 8:34. “God” is the “Only True God” (Jn 17:3) who raised Him from the dead. Romans 10:9. In short: This “Mystery of Godliness” Topic is being hijacked to “JesusIsGodVille” like many of these threads corrupted by the Dogma of Roman Catholicism.

BrendanMark said:
We must now consider what pertains to Christ's unity in common. For, in their proper place, we must consider what pertains to unity and plurality in detail: thus we concluded (Q[9]) that there is not only one knowledge in Christ, and it will be concluded hereafter (Q[35], A[2]) that there is not only one nativity in Christ.

Here we go. :0) This paper attempts to reverse engineer the “Jesus is God” doctrine from a Unity (Deity) ‘and’ Nativity (Humanity) teaching that has NO basis in Bible reality whatsoever. Read through the entire article to realize that Aquinas makes one reference to Scripture (John 10:30) and the remainder is his own personal opinion that is DEAD WRONG at practically every turn. As already explained in Post #26, Paul is teaching Timothy that “Christ IN You” (Col. 1:27) is great and contained inside every believer in our gospel being ‘revealed in the flesh’ and being ‘vindicated in the Spirit,’ being ‘seen by the angels’ (in you) being “proclaimed among the nations” (through the evangelists), being ‘believed on in the world’ (believers in our gospel) being ‘taken up in glory’ (at our Rapture).” Therefore, we have Jesus of the flesh walking around on the earth as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (pic) ‘and’ we have Christ Jesus (my thread) who contains this entire universe IN Himself (Col. 1:15-17). Paul teaches that ‘we’ (believers in our gospel) know Christ of the flesh this way NO LONGER (2Cor. 5:16-17), making room between our ears and in our hearts to know Christ Jesus IN whom all things are summed up (Eph. 1:9-10) and held together. The ‘wisdom’ aspect is that “Christ IN you” (Fig. 2) is a microcosm (smaller version) of Christ Jesus "IN" every believer, which makes us ‘new creatures’ part of a completely “New Creation” (Gal. 6:15). However, what Mr. Aquinas is teaching is Jesus = God/man Dogma that some dead guy invented centuries ago ‘and’ what has been blinding the minds of the unbelieving ever since . . .

BrendanMark said:
Hence we must consider Christ's unity (1) of being; (2) of will; (3) of operation.

Under the first head there are two points of inquiry:

(1) Whether Christ is one or two?
(2) Whether there is only one being in Christ?

Lord-Have-Mercy . . . Christ’s Unity is expressed in two words: The Word. John 1:1-3. Period. You can use the Greek term “Logos” if that seems good and appropriate for your readers. You can also use the phrase “The Light” from Genesis 1:3 and John 1:4-9, but that is just ‘one’ of three witnesses in 'Love, Light and Life' witnesses from God, The Word and This Creation; as the three witnesses from God defining or explaining His True Essence (top of diagram). Therefore, Christ is “One” in “The Word” and three in the Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Matt. 28:19) as the three witnesses of spirit, blood and water (1Jn 5:8). The question about whether Christ is one or two is based upon MYTHS that begin with this Jesus = God/man nonsense. The “One” who is IN Christ is GOD (2Cor. 5:19) ‘and’ as His Three Witnesses from Revelation 1:8 (God To Come, God Who Is, God Who Was) for whom the Son of God is the “IMAGE of the Invisible God.” Col. 1:15. The Son has no ‘will’ of His own, but He does the will of He who sent Him. John 5:30. Christ’s unity of operation is as “The Word” like His trinity of operation is the “Father, Son and Holy Spirit.” Period.

BrendanMark said:
On the contrary, Everything is said to be a being, inasmuch as it is one, for one and being are convertible. Therefore, if there were two beings in Christ, and not* one only, Christ would be two, and not* one.

This is more nonsense on the half shell or on the single if that seems more appropriate. Anyone who thinks ‘one and being are convertible’ (heh) is having fun deluding himself and everyone else to boot! Since Mr. Aquinas is quoting NOTHING from Scripture and is merely regurgitating his personal church dogma, then we have no way of accessing the Greek from his passage and verse in order to verify his claims one way or the other. Note the ‘nots’ in the statements of Mr. Aquinas that seek to define Christ by ‘what is not.’ On whether there are one or two or three or four “Anointed Ones,” then prepare yourself for a big fat surprise: God is ONE with the Word in His Infinite Realm (far left) where They are truly One Essence and the very same “God” and all things INFINITE are held together IN Him. Satan murdered Adam in God’s Infinite Realm, so God told His Word to “Go over there and remake the ‘son of God’ IN yourself once again.” That marked the time that God called “Heaven” to exist through His Word (red sphere/realm) ‘and’ to become His Word made flesh (incarnate), so this entire universe could ‘then’ be made/formed IN Him (like this = blue sphere). Therefore, you now have two “The Words” where #1 remains in God’s Infinite Realm very much ONE with God ‘and’ Christ Jesus contains all things of this universe IN Himself. Then we have God commanding The Word that is now ‘with Him’ (Jn 1:2) to “Go over there into ‘heaven’ and incarnate as the “Lamb of God” to take away the sin of the world.”

John the Baptist is pointing into heaven (center of pic) where the “Lamb of God” (pic = center of this Adamic Creation) is standing right now like He has been since the Light was sent from God way back in Genesis 1:3, which makes “Christ” Number Three. :0) Then we have God commanding the Lord God (Lamb of God) to incarnate into the womb of Mary through the conception of the Holy Spirit ‘and’ the overshadowing of the Father (Luke 1:35) and ‘that’ is when the “Lamb of God” (advanced diagram = still in heaven) incarnated onto this earth as “Jesus” The Word “made flesh.” John 1:14. Therefore (if you are following along), then we have ‘four’ cases of the “Son of God” in “The Word” that is “ONE” with God in His Infinite Realm ‘and’ Christ Jesus (F+S+HS = under red arrow) containing this entire universe ‘and’ the Lamb of God in heaven taking away the sin of the world ‘and’ Jesus of the flesh preaching the “Gospel of the Kingdom” (Matt. 4:23) and raising the dead and forgiving sins and dying for our sins on the cross at Calvary. Then we have “Christ IN you” (Col. 1:27) that is a smaller version of “Christ Jesus” born inside every believer to become the ‘fifth’ version of ‘The Word’ (F+S+HS) who becomes the “Tabernacle/Temple” for housing “God,” that Paul is describing to Timothy as the “Mystery of Godliness” incarnate inside our very being. In the ages to come, our brothers and sisters IN Christ Jesus will grow to understand that ‘five’ is the number of ‘inner completion’ where these ‘five’ realms (God, Word, Creation, Christ IN you, God IN Christ) gradually and methodically become ‘One’ when God becomes “all in all” (1Cor. 15:28 = far right) once again. Of course, I cannot go into great detail about ‘these things’ on this CF.com Board, because ‘the truth’ is edited and deleted from these deliberations entirely, OR shipped off to Unorthodox Theology Never-never Land. :0)

[Continued]

Terral · Dec 26, 2008

BrendanMark said:
If, therefore, the human nature accrued to the Son of God, not hypostatically or personally, but accidentally, as some maintained, it would be necessary to assert two beings in Christ---one, inasmuch as He is God---the other, inasmuch as He is Man; even as in Socrates we place one being inasmuch as he is white, and another inasmuch as he is a man, since "being white" does not pertain to the personal being of Socrates.

Lord-Have-Mercy. See what I mean? :0) Jesus Christ is the SON OF GOD (John 1:34) and God raised Him from the dead (Rom. 10:9) on the third day. 1Cor. 15:3-4. This foolish Jesus = God/man false dogma is proven FALSE by citing from a single OT verse, saying,

"God is not a man, that He should lie, Nor a son of man, that He should repent; Has He said, and will He not do it? Or has He spoken, and will He not make it good?” Numbers 23:19.

Since God is NOT a mere man, then the “Son of God” cannot possibly be “God” AND a mere ‘man.’ Period. Far too many people have room in their broken theologies for “God” and mere ‘men’ without ever knowing the “Son of God” (Eph. 4:13) is the “One Mediator” BETWEEN GOD AND MEN (1Tim. 2:5), because Christ is something “between God AND men.” When you elevate the “Son of God” to place Him in the “One God” position (ouch), then this errant practice of Roman Catholicism is commonly called IDOLATRY. Scripture also says that heaven and the highest heaven cannot contain God (1Kings 8:27) and that Israel is NOT to fashion idols to worship as Deity from anything that is IN HEAVEN ABOVE (Ex. 20:4 = compare to Jn 6:51 and Acts 1:11). And that is the very reason that those regurgitating RC Dogma run right out to begin worshipping “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” (spirit witness of Christ Jesus) as ‘their god’ in the first place; because they do NOT even begin to know the difference (my thread). Mr. Aquinas is making the same grand error of the Majority here, which is likely the reason that so many have gone astray.

BrendanMark said:
And thus, since the human nature is united to the Son of God, hypostatically or personally as was said above (Q[2], AA[5],6), and not accidentally, it follows that by the human nature there accrued to Him no new personal being, but only a new relation of the pre-existing personal being to the human nature, in such a way that the Person is said to subsist not merely in the Divine, but also in the human nature.

And thus, we cycle back around to the false RC Doctrine that Jesus = God/man, which Scripture says is very much IMPOSSIBLE. Someone please turn on the lights by identifying the greatest ever born of women. Would that be Jesus Christ or John the Baptist? Matthew 11:11? :0) Those among you wishing to transform the “Son of God” into a mere man (that is funny) need to line up and explain to everyone how you lower Christ to a position LOWER than John the Baptist. The fact that Jesus Christ is no mere man is highlighted throughout Scripture:

“Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to ALL MEN, because all sinned . . .”. Romans 5:12.

Well? Did sin and death spread to ALL MEN or is God lying here too? Scripture also says that Christ ‘knew no sin’ (2Cor. 5:21), which right off the bat tells you (Rom. 5:12) that He is no mere man like John the Baptist and everyone else very much in need of “A Savior.” Scripture teaches that Christ was “found in appearance AS A MAN” (Phil. 2:8), because He was conceived of the Holy Spirit (Matt. 1:18+20) and the overshadowing of the Father taking NOTHING from Joseph or Mary. All of this “Mary the Mother OF GOD” dogma (doctrines of demons) is fabricated NONSENSE designed to lead the weak and unstable into the ditch on the side of the road and to DESTRUCTION. But hey, I can write on this CF.com Board for a thousand years and never achieve the Reps that you people give this guy in 69 posts, because the MANY are walking that wide road already (Matt. 7:13-14) amid great laughter and applause for those shoveling out false RC Dogma every step of the way.

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

GraceSeeker · Dec 26, 2008

Teral, if you would only use these terms with the same meaning that the Jews and Christians who wrote scripture used them, rather than your own reinterpretations of their meanings, your posts would make a lot more sense.

Terral · Dec 26, 2008

Hi Grace:

Thank you for writing:

GraceSeeker said:
Teral, if you would only use these terms with the same meaning that the Jews and Christians who wrote scripture used them, rather than your own reinterpretations of their meanings, your posts would make a lot more sense.

Please quote >> something from my work where I misuse these terms and I will do my best to present clarifying statements. We are writing on a mystery (musterion = Vines Definition) topic and by definition we sow the seeds and water and God must cause the growth. 1Cor. 3:6-7. Thank you in advance,

In Christ Jesus,

Terral

BrendanMark · Dec 26, 2008

That you choose to espouse heresy and oppose Christian thought, experience and the salvific action of Christ Incarnate is not my issue. That you are so totally ignorant of the most basic concepts of trinitarian theology is just funny. But your diagrams are simply ignorant tripe. Do learn the basicv concpets and terms one day before you make such ludicrous and blasphemous posts in future.

Why do you post to a Christian forum if are so utterly opposed to Christianity?

Without a doubt the central affirmation of the Christian faith is that Jesus Christ is both divine and human. On this truth all Christians are agreed, since indeed one who denies this can scarcely bear the name Christian in any meaningful sense at all.
Fairbairn, Donald Grace and Christology in the Early Church [Oxford Early Christian Studies, 2003 p.vii]

In Chalcedonian theology, then, the universal and the particular in Christ are considered in the reverse order with respect to how they are in the Trinity. In Christ, there is difference at the level of the universal and unity at the level of the particular, whereas in the Trinity, unity is at the level of the universal and difference at the level of the particular. . . In Chalcedonian Christology, this is expressed by attributing hypostasis or person to the particular and nature to the universal. Thus one (composite) hypostasis is considered in two natures.
Törönen, Melchisedec Unity and Distinction in the Thought of St Maximus the Confessor [Oxford Early Christian Studies, 2007, p. 87]

Thus, prior to the Nestorian controversy, the church had opposed three extreme misrepresentations of the person and work of Christ. (1) Christ was a divine being and therefore could not suffer (Docetism); (2) God the Father was temporarily changed into the suffering Son, at the expense of his full divinity and transcendence (Patripassianism); (3) Christ was involved in change, birth, suffering, and death, therefore he could not be fully divine (Arianism). Having ruled out the three extreme options, the church asserted that the Son of God suffered in reality and not mere appearance; that it was the Son who became incarnate and suffered, not the Father; that the Sons involvement in suffering did not diminish his divine status, because the incarnation was a supreme act of divine compassion and as such it was most appropriate and God-befitting.

The justification of the incarnation as an act worthy of God is a common theme of Christian apologetic against philosophically minded pagans, whose understanding of God did not allow for the possibility that God could empty himself, assume the human condition, and suffer the consequences.
Gavrilyuk, Paul L. The Suffering of the Impassible God The Dialectics of Patristic Thought [Oxford Early Christian Studies, 2004 p. 18]

Terral · Dec 27, 2008

Hi Brendan with Grace mentioned:

BrendanMark said:
That you choose to espouse heresy and oppose Christian thought, experience and the salvific action of Christ Incarnate is not my issue. That you are so totally ignorant of the most basic concepts of trinitarian theology is just funny.

Attacking the ‘person’ and not the substance of his ‘work’ is always a bad idea, because then everyone realizes at some point that you never had a case from the beginning. GraceSeeker came out with the ‘claim’ that some error exists in my use of terms, but of course we have no idea about which terms; because neither of you bothered to ‘quote >>’ one line from ‘my work’ before playing your games. :0) If there is something WRONG with my ‘Mystery of Godliness’ thesis, claims, evidentiary support or conclusions, then both of you have every opportunity to point these readers and me into that direction; before offering everyone here a rebuttal or counterproposal for something else using Scripture. 2Tim. 3:16-17. However, to come out here before the members of this fine CF.com Board to make such accusations without quoting A SINGLE WORD of my testimony is highly suspicious and downright foolish and, well, even funny. :0) Let me guess: Now we have another puffed up Roman Catholic member (or something similar) willing to cite from his dead church fathers ‘and’ with no intention of supporting A SINGLE WORD from Scripture. 2Tim. 2:15. The difference is that I will quote your every word and those of your deluded church fathers and these readers can decide which side is standing in the stench of their overwhelming ignorance. Let’s see: Jesus Christ = The Father + Son + Holy Spirit (diagram = Matt. 28:19) = The Word (John 1:1-3) made flesh (John 1:14). How are we doing so far? :0)

BrendanMark said:
But your diagrams are simply ignorant tripe.

Really? And which among the eighty diagrams teaching “The Mystery Explained” (link = a chapter on this Topic is included = Chapter 18) would Mr. Brendan here like to prove represents ‘ignorant tripe’?? Somebody forgot to include any quotes or diagrams from me before standing this rant. :0)

BrendanMark said:
Do learn the basicv concpets* and terms one day before you make such ludicrous and blasphemous posts in future.

The reason I am harassed by many of our Roman Catholic moderators is because they share these same foolish conclusions, even though NONE of them have bothered to ‘quote >>’ one word from me to make a case for ANYTHING using Scripture. They simply listen to the nonsense from people like Brendan here who cannot even spell ‘basic concepts*’ and use pathetic descriptions like ‘ludicrous and blasphemous’ as if that is supposed to mean something. The fact is that GraceSeeker and Brendan here and the VAST MAJORITY reading this CF.com “Paterology, Christology & Pneumatology” Forum have no idea about what Paul’s “Mystery of Godliness” Topic even means, because understanding the concept of “Christ IN you” (Col. 1:27 = Fig 2) requires the believer to actually have “Christ IN you” in the first place by hearing and believing 'our gospel' (#2 here). :0) The Mystery of Godliness explains how God Himself is IN Christ (2Cor. 5:19) and how “Christ IN you” (F+S+HS) is the Living Tabernacle who contains God for a ‘summing up’ process that shall continue for all the ages to come. Quoting from your dead church fathers will do those blinded by their Denominationalism no good at all, because they knew even LESS about “Christ IN you” than GraceSeeker and Brendan.

BrendanMark said:
Why do you post to a Christian forum if are so utterly opposed to Christianity?

Listen here ALL OF YOU: There are over 2000 denominations of ‘professing’ Christians in the USA alone ‘and’ the interpretations of Brendan represents just one of them. To exclude other CF.com members from “Christianity” because our interpretations are different from yours is just the kind of ‘ignorant tripe’ that my debating adversary here is attempting to pass onto somebody else. Now supposedly I am misusing the original Greek terms (yeah right) ‘and’ opposing Christianity using the same breath! How wonderful! Of course, neither of these guys bothered to point to one thing in any of my posts to prove anything at all using Scripture. The fact in this case is that Brendan is confusing his brand of Denominationalism with true Christianity where God actually indwells His Son in believers through what Paul is describing as the “Mystery of Godliness’ right here in 1Timothy 3:16. Paul teaches ‘Christ IN you’ as the new ‘inner man’ (Romans 7:22, 2Cor. 4:16, Eph. 3:16), but ONLY for the members of Christ’s Body (Church #2) that God Himself has given spiritual eyes to see. My debating opponent here is defining “Christianity” as his brand of Roman Catholicism (a daughter denomination acutally) and then accuses me for refusing to fall for the same idiotic trickery that Paul warns about in 1Timothy 4:1-3 in this same Epistle to Timothy ‘and’ in the verses that follow this teaching:

“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, men who forbid marriage [priests/nuns] and advocate abstaining from foods [Lent] which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.” 1Timothy 4:1-3.

Let’s see here: Do we know of any ‘professing’ Christian Denominations that forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods? That would be from the direction of the very people making accusations against me in this debate. What you teach on this CF.com Board is the dogma of those falling ‘away from the faith’ that Paul is teaching ‘and’ the same exact ‘faith’ that I am describing in all of my posts that do NOT agree one bit with your Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy or Protestantism representing the ‘doctrines of demons’ as true Christianity. The fact that the Majority here agrees with you will be little consolation at the Judgment, when my side is vindicated 100 percent and those pushing the dogma of ‘deceitful spirits’ are thrown headlong into the lake of fire.

BrendanMark said:
Without a doubt the central affirmation of the Christian faith is that Jesus Christ is both divine and human. On this truth all Christians are agreed, since indeed one who denies this can scarcely bear the name ‘Christian’ in any meaningful sense at all.
Fairbairn, Donald – Grace and Christology in the Early Church [Oxford Early Christian Studies, 2003 p.vii]

Brendan Commentary >> Nothing. :0)

Mere men under the power of the ‘deluding influence’ (2Thes. 2:11) run around saying that Jesus is God ‘and’ man, but God 'and' His Son never say anything like that one time anywhere in God’s Living Word. That is the very reason that Brendan here quotes his dead church fathers teaching his Denominationalism rather than quoting me or Scripture to make ‘a case’ for ANYTHING. I can show you time and time again that Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” (John 1:34) and that John the Baptist is the greatest born of women (Matt. 11:11), but these guys will quote nothing from me to begin their rant and charade ‘and’ pretend that nobody notices. :0) If we return to the Old Testament and Genesis 2, then we see the Lord God (Christ) forming Adam (Gen. 2:7) with all the incarnate ‘gods’ (Ps. 82:6, Jn 10:34) very much IN him (1Cor. 15:22). Right? Okay then. Jesus Christ is the Lord God DOING THE FORMING and mere men are numbered among ‘her seed’ or ‘your seed’ (Gen. 3:15). The greatest to EVER be born of women is still ‘John the Baptist’ and ‘Abraham’ and ‘Joshua’ and ‘Elijah’ and ‘David’ and the coming ‘prophet’ of Acts 3:22-23, because ALL of those Bible principals are ‘skins’ (Gen. 3:21) for your father Adam ‘and’ Jesus Christ is still the “Lord God” who formed him. Jesus Christ speaks on this topic and His accusers had no reply either:

“Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question: "What do you think about the Christ, whose son is He?" They said to Him, "The son of David." He said to them, "Then how does David in the Spirit call Him 'Lord,' saying, 'The Lord said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, until I put your enemies beneath Your feet”? "If David then calls Him 'Lord,' how is He his son?" No one was able to answer Him a word, nor did anyone dare from that day on to ask Him another question.” Matthew 22:41-46.

Okay hotshot: Let’s see if anyone blinded by your kind of Denominationalism can answer Christ’s question any better than these Pharisees: Christ quoted David in Psalm 110:1 saying that the Lord (“Only True God” = Jn. 17:3) said to “my Lord” (Christ = Lord God who formed Adam/David), “sit at My right hand (Col. 3:1-3, Heb. 8:1-2), until I put your enemies beneath Your feet.” Then, how many of my accusers realize that Paul quotes from this same verse in 1Corinthians 15:27 where Paul is teaching the same ‘exception’ where the God who raised Christ from the dead (1Cor. 15:3-4) is the same “God” who becomes “all in all” in 1Corinthians 15:28 (diagram):

[Continued]

Terral · Dec 27, 2008

“For ‘He has put all things in subjection under His feet.’ But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him. When all things are subjected to Him [second “Lord” of Psalms 110:1 = Christ], then The Son Himself also will be subjected to the One [God] who subjected all things to Him [The Son], so that God [first “Lord” of Ps. 110:1 = God] may be all in all.” 1Corinthians 15:27-28.

Paul is describing the very end of time itself when all things are subjected to “The Son” (F+S+HS) so that even the Son Himself can THEN be subjected to the very GOD who raised Him from the dead. Paul is excluding “God” from the subjection process where all things in this universe are summed up IN Christ (Eph. 1:9-10) and subjected to THE SON (Christ) in the very same way that Christ is excluding Himself from being the ‘son’ of David or ANY MERE MAN. The reason that those blinded by Roman Catholicism want to attack ‘my person’ is because they cannot see the VAST differences between God ‘and’ His Only Begotten Son. John 3:16. They want to transform the “Son of the Living God” into the God who raised Him from the dead, which also means they cannot distinguish between “Christ IN you” (Col. 1:27) AND “God In Christ” (2Cor. 5:19) reconciling the world (this universe) to Himself ‘through His Living Word.’ Again I will ask these people to answer Christ’s question:

If David calls the Messiah “Lord” then how is Christ (F+S+HS) his son? :0)

BrendanMark said:
In Chalcedonian theology, then, the universal and the particular in Christ are considered in the reverse order with respect to how they are in the Trinity.

Which ‘Trinity’ (pic and pic) would we be talking about? Would that be the Father + Son + Holy Spirit testifying for “The Word” in Matthew 28:19, OR God To Come + God Who Is + God Who Was testifying for “The Almighty” in Revelation 1:8? Would that be the Heavens + Heaven + Earth from Genesis 1:6-8, OR the spirit, soul and body of the incarnate ‘gods’ strutting around in ignorance on this earth? Or, does Brendan and those blinded by Roman Catholicism only have room in their broken theologies for one Trinity? Again, these people do NOT even know the differences between the “Only True God” and “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” (my thread), but they think themselves qualified to come out here and talk about ‘their’ version of ‘their’ Trinity that says the Father + Son + Holy Spirit = The Almighty. :0)

These people run to Revelation 1:8 and simply transplant the three witnesses of ‘The Word’ (F+S+HS) into that equation. AND because everyone blinded by their nonsense believes the same ‘doctrine of demons,’ THEN they feel empowered to come out here and make fools of themselves amid their own foolishness, complete ignorance of ‘the truth’ and utter nonsense and stupidity. These people have the right ‘pattern’ for explaining God ‘and’ The Word, but they have plugged the wrong Principals into their errant Trinity equation. The funny part is that the ‘deluding influence’ will continue to force them into believing ‘what is false’ (2Thes. 2:11), until the veil is removed at the Judgment ‘and’ everyone here realizes that I was right all along. :0)

BrendanMark said:
In Christ, there is difference at the level of the universal and unity at the level of the particular, whereas in the Trinity, unity is at the level of the universal and difference at the level of the particular. . .

Brendan’s Commentary >> Nothing again. :0)

Again, you guys quote old dead church fathers with just as much right to be wrong as everyone here ‘and’ offer nothing in the way of ‘rightly divided’ commentary to God’s Living Word or anybody else. Since when does quoting a dead church father replace the requirement to show yourself approved (1Cor. 11:19) to God by accurately handing the Word of Truth? 2Timothy 2:15? The authors of this “Christian Studies” tripe you quote (this is ridiculous) has no idea that The Word has His three witnesses (F+S+HS) in the very same way that the “Only True God” has His three witnesses (GTC, GWI, GWW) testifying for “The Almighty” in Revelation 1:8 any better than GraceSeeker or Brendan. They simply assume that the three witnesses of “The Word” (F+S+HS) are testifying for “The Almighty” to become ‘their’ false dogma that they herald their error as ‘The Trinity’ without batting an eye and without even realizing that their concoction is the ‘doctrines of demons’ and the bold counterfeit that Satan has placed here to destroy the weak and unstable (2Peter 3:14-16).

BrendanMark said:
In Chalcedonian Christology, this is expressed by attributing hypostasis or person to the particular and nature to the universal. Thus one (composite) hypostasis is considered in two natures.
Törönen, Melchisedec – Unity and Distinction in the Thought of St Maximus the Confessor [Oxford Early Christian Studies, 2007, p. 87

Brendan Commentary >> Nothing again. :0)

The only coherent aspects of this Christology nonsense is this Roman Catholic concept of “God/man” in ‘two natures’ that appears nowhere in God’s Living Word for “Christ” anywhere. The simple explanation comes from Paul in 1Timothy 2:5 where Christ Jesus is the “one Mediator” BETWEEN GOD AND MEN, because the “Son of God” (2Cor. 1:19) is something very much BETWEEN GOD 'AND' MEN. See Phil. 2:8 again. We create a spiritual equation from this verse that says (> means “greater than”):

One God (Only True God) > One Mediator (Christ Jesus = Son of God = F+S+HS) > Men (spirit, soul body).

How many see the problem? :0) Here we have the “One God” on the left being ‘greater than’ the “One Mediator” of the SAME VERSE where the “One God” AND “Christ Jesus” are two Principals and ‘men’ represent the third part of this equation. We just saw that Christ is at the ‘right hand of God’ (Col. 3:1-3), until all things in this universe are summed up IN Christ (Eph. 1:9-10 again) and all things are subjected to The Son (1Cor. 15:27). Right? Of course. Mr. Brendan’s ‘two natures’ nonsense above is focused ONLY upon “Christ” (i.e. ‘Christology&#8217

without even bringing the “one God” of the SAME VERSE into ‘his’ equation. Why? I will cut to the chase right here and let the cat out of the proverbial bag: These people ALL worship “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” as ‘their god’ without even realizing that He is the “spirit witness” of Christ Jesus of the same cotton picking verse! :0) Anyone worshipping the ‘spirit witness’ of Christ Jesus as their “God!!!” is blinded by his own idolatry and therefore cannot even see the “one God” for whom the “one Mediator” (F+S+HS) stands and mediates.

The folly of their nonsense is that the devil has taught them how to transform the “one Mediator” (Christ Jesus) into the “one God” over on the left ‘and’ into a mere ‘man’ over on the right side of the same equation that includes ‘three’ principals (God, Christ, Men) now transformed into one. So, exactly where are we to place “Christ Jesus” in a real equation representing ‘the truth’ about the One God, Christ Jesus and mere men? Does anyone have one clue? :0) The ONLY place to put Christ Jesus is BETWEEN GOD ‘AND’ MEN, just like Paul is teaching Timothy right here in 1Timothy 2:5. Transforming the “one Mediator” (Christ = F+S+HS) into the “one God” (GTC, GWI, GWW) position is a devious work that everyone here should recognize as IDOLATRY, which is replacing the “Only True God” with ANYTHING. Period. In short: Replacing the “one God” with His Only Begotten Son (Christ) is Satan’s trick for giving men a heavenly way to go straight into the lake of fire and MANY here have already fallen for the counterfeit so thoroughly that ‘the truth’ of my testimony is seen as their version of ‘heresy.’ :0)

[Continued]

Terral · Dec 27, 2008

BrendanMark said:
Thus, prior to the Nestorian controversy, the church had opposed three extreme misrepresentations of the person and work of Christ. (1) Christ was a divine being and therefore could not suffer (Docetism) . . .

Brendan’s Commentary >> Nothing again. :0)

This “Nestorian controversy” dogma is more Bullony on the half shell having nothing to do with God’s Living Word at all. Jesus Christ is “The Word” made flesh and God’s Word testifies of “His suffering” (Acts 1:3) as a matter of Biblical and Spiritual FACT. Christ repeated David’s bold statement that ‘You are gods’ (Ps. 82:6, Jn 10:34) and wondered why everyone was in an uproar about His claims of being on the “Son of God” (Jn 10:36). If incarnate ‘gods’ can suffer as mere men, then someone please explain why the “Son of God” is incapable of suffering. Part of being ‘crucified with Christ’ (Gal. 2:20) is knowing Him and the ‘power of His resurrection and the ‘fellowship of His sufferings,’ being conformed to His death.” Phil. 3:10. Mr. Brendan here is using the old ‘bait and switch’ game by quoting from Nestorian errors (LOL) and attempting to associate those things with something I wrote on this “Mystery of Godliness” Topic somewhere in this thread, because this guy has no supported argument for ANYTHING. Period.

BrendanMark said:
(2) God the Father was temporarily changed into the suffering Son, at the expense of his full divinity and transcendence (Patripassianism) . . .

Brendan Commentary >> Nothing as usual. :0)

What in the heck is ‘full divinity’ as if the concept of ‘partial divinity’ means anything at all? Again, there is only ONE GOD, who raised Christ from the dead (Rom. 10:9) on the third day (1Cor. 15:3-4) and Jesus Christ is the “Son of God” at His right hand! This “Mystery of Godliness” Topic is all about how God indwells “Christ IN you” to also stand ‘between God AND men’ from inside every believer in our gospel, until God ‘and’ His Son become ONE and the same thing at the very END of all the ages. However, Mr. Brendan here is doing his best to transform the Son of God (F+S+HS) into the “One God” who raised Him from the dead by assigning Him this “full divinity” quality that is mentioned nowhere in God’s Living Word.

BrendanMark said:
(3) Christ was involved in change, birth, suffering, and death, therefore he could not be fully divine (Arianism).

Brendan Commentary >> Nothing.

The only Person with full ‘Deity’ is GOD. Period. The fullness of God’s Deity dwells in His Son in bodily form (Col. 2:9), because God was IN Christ (2Cor. 5:19) reconciling the world to Himself. Christ is the “IMAGE of the Invisible God” (Col. 1:15), but men blinded by their idolatry worship the ‘image’ AS GOD, because they remove the “one God” from the equation entirely to replace Him with His Only Begotten Son the “one Mediator” of the same verse. 1Tim. 2:5. Again, Brendan’s “Christian Studies” author is concentrating full attention upon the “Son of God” (F+S+HS) without even paying the “One God” any attention whatsoever.

BrendanMark said:
Having ruled out the three extreme options, the church asserted that the Son of God suffered in reality and not mere appearance; that it was the Son who became incarnate and suffered, not the Father; that the Son’s involvement in suffering did not diminish his divine status, because the incarnation was a supreme act of divine compassion and as such it was most appropriate and God-befitting.

See what I mean? :0) This is ridiculous! First of all, these people drum up three extreme positions, then base their conclusions upon WHAT IS FALSE with no basis in Biblical Reality whatsoever. Christ taught that those seeing “Me” have also seen “The Father” (Jn 14:8-11), which renders everything said above into utter nonsense. Again, Brendan’s church fathers are looking intently at ‘their god’ in “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” (Matt. 10:32-33) and pretending this is the “one God” from 1Timothy 2:5 ‘and’ without realizing that He (F+S+HS) is the ‘spirit witness’ of The Word. Jesus Christ is the Father ‘and’ Son ‘and’ Holy Spirit all rolled into One (1Jn 5:8) and “The Almighty” has three witnesses (Rev. 1:8) of His very own! You should suspect that this is the case, because again the Son of God (Christ = F+S+HS) is the IMAGE of the Invisible God and ‘both’ the “one God” and “one Mediator” have ‘triune’ natures of spirit, blood and water like this broken universe and man. After all, if God is to communicate with mere men through His Word, then He must also take on a ‘Triune’ nature in the same exact way of His Word/Son (F+S+HS).

BrendanMark said:
The justification of the incarnation as an act worthy of God is a common theme of Christian apologetic against philosophically minded pagans, whose understanding of God did not allow for the possibility that God could empty himself, assume the human condition, and suffer the consequences.

Gavrilyuk, Paul L. – The Suffering of the Impassible God – The Dialectics of Patristic Thought [Oxford Early Christian Studies, 2004 p. 18]

Brendan Commentary >> Nothing.

First of all, Scripture says “The Word” was made flesh (Jn 1:14) ‘and’ says that “No one has seen GOD at any time . . .”. John 1:18. Mere men ‘have’ seen the “Son of God” (Jn 1:34) ‘and’ have even seen “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” (Jn 14:8-11 again) ‘and’ have seen the Holy Spirit descending out of heaven (Jn 1:32). Christ Himself affirms that He is the “Bread of Life” who descended out of HEAVEN (Jn 6:51) and Scripture confirms that He ascended into ‘heaven’ (Acts 1:11), as already presented in this debate. Then we have the absolute truth that Israel is commanded NOT to fashion idols of false deity from anything ‘in heaven above’ (Ex. 20:4), which disqualifies “My Father who is IN HEAVEN” from being the “ONE GOD” who is the ONLY DEITY of God’s Living Word. Mr. Brendan’s church fathers have replaced a ‘pagan’ concept of deity for his own errant dogma that F+S+HS = The Almighty without even considering that those are the three witnesses of ‘The Word’ who we know as the ‘Son of the Living God’ (Matt. 16:15-17). The time is much too late for those blinded by various forms of Roman Catholicism, Greek Orthodoxy and modern day Protestantism, but perhaps there is still time to help these readers yet to fall for their doctrines of demons giving men a heavenly way to be thrown headlong into the lake of fire right along with all liars and idolaters (Rev. 21:8) making the same grave mistake. I am,

In Christ Jesus even now,

Terral

beloved57 · Jan 10, 2009

Wow! We seem to be making progress in recognizing the differences between the Only True God and Jesus Christ (F+S+HS) of the same verse. Jn 17:3.

Who says Jesus christ is not the only True God ? because He is 1 jn 5:

20And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

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